<p>“Sure, they’re taking loans, but at $12-$16K a year, which is nothing.”</p>
<p>For those with a family income under $30,000, I can assure you, it is NOT nothing!!</p>
<p>And I don’t mean to be bitter either, just realistic. Low income families know very well what it means to “work their tails off” too. :)</p>
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<p>It’s certainly nothing I would recommend.</p>
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If that’s all it costs for a real $240k education, it’s a screaming bargain, $30k income or not. It would be foolish to pass up a gift of that magnitude.</p>
<p>Of course, it depends entirely on the true worth of the program. But at such an incredible discount, there’s large room for error.</p>
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<p>skrlvr references the IPEDS Data Center (website of National Center for Education Statistics) as the source of his or her information ($40,197 cost of attendance at Northwestern for families reporting income of $110K or more). This is a very informative site. The numbers quoted by skrlvr jibe with what I saw. </p>
<p>Now I have another site to poke around in when I should be reading literature and improving myself!</p>
<p>With income <30k, who qualifies to get those loans?</p>
<p>I should clarify to say that $12-$16K in loans per year to attend N’Western in comparison to the AGI household of $100K paying high 30’s to attend is RELATIVELY nothing. It’s a great deal if you can get it.</p>
<p>And…if we’re comparing apples to apples here, let’s say that both loans were done by the student, co-signed by parents. And let’s further hypothesize that both students attained the same degree, same GPA. Now they’re each out in the working world, with a BA from Northwestern. Who’s better off? The one with student loans of $50-$60K, or the one with $140-$150K? You tell me…</p>
<p>I understand it’s all semantics here, and it’s been discussed ad nauseum on this forum and thread. But there’s something very broken about a system like this. I have no problem with need-based grants for TRUE hardship. But an AGI of, say, $45K doesn’t automatically constitute hardship in & of itself. I was there for many years, and it wasn’t that bad, at least I didn’t think so at the time. You work, you come home, you make do with what you have.</p>
<p>It’s also kind of screwy logic to assume that it’s ‘harder’ for lower-income families to eventually pay off a co-signed $50K loan than a family with an AGI approaching six figures to pay off $140K over time. I’m not buying it.</p>
<p>Jnn, imho, the colleges are not only in the education business, but are also redistributing income. The problem is that in order for them to make it work, they have to charge a lot not just to the really wealthy, but to the upper middle class. But that is changing as more and more middle class are saying either they cant pay or they are sick of being used.</p>
<p>“But that is changing…”</p>
<p>We’ll know it’s changing when we hear about schools that have no takers for their financial aid offers. As long as we continue to accept the offers, little will change.</p>
<p>We know it’s changing by the fact that the stats for public schools are shooting up like crazy.</p>
<p>I was at a college fair last night, one school we talked to said their 75th %tile SAT score jumped 50 points from the year before. Many of the publics we looked at have 75th %tile scores for M/CR that are over 1300, and these weren’t the UVa/UMich/UNC-CH’s of the world, either. They are no longer safety schools.</p>
<p>So it seems many top students and their families, who might previously have done whatever it takes to go to that private, are starting to vote with their money.</p>
<p>And we DO have less money than before. But our UCs also have less money, and are cutting in-state attendance, which could INCREASE applications to privates. I dunno where it will end up. :(</p>
<p>Yep, vossron, the landscape is a-changing. Unless I miss my guess, if I were advising students going into college between 2012-2015, I’d tell them that the flagship State U.'s are going to be brutally hard to be admitted to, the other State U.'s (the Northern, Southern, Central, etc.) will be tougher but a good value, and Tier 2 & 3 privates–if they have a decent endowment, i.e. merit $$$–could very well be where the REAL value is, especially for near-top applicants who 10 years ago would have attended flagship State U. or Tier 1 privates.</p>
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Already true at UMich which joined the common app this year – increased applicants from 30,000 last year to 38,000 this year – for fewer (5700) spots; 30% OOS, about 6% internationals and the rest in-state. UMich’s OOS fees are very high (but still about 10k less than many privates).</p>
<p>You should see the unbelievable stats of many of the kids who were deferred EA this year. Over on the Michigan thread, there’s also a post by a parent a little bemused by the fact that her d. is in-state with a 36 ACT and a 4.0 and no merit money.</p>
<p>So jnm123, the future is here ;)</p>
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<p>This information is either outdated or is for over the course of 4 years (or both) because Harvard’s FA plan is as follows: $80,000 family income or less = no family contribution, no loans, $80,000-$180,000 family income or less = 0-10% of family total income, no loans.</p>
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<p>Wow … talk about YMMV …</p>
<p>so here’s the orginal data with a column added … school cost as a percent of income (used the high end of the range for the percentage … yielding the lowest %)</p>
<p>$0 – $30,000 …$12,783…40%
$30,001 – $48,000 …$16,065…33%
$48,001 – $75,000 …$21,062…28%
$75,001 – $110,000 …$27,191…25%
$110,001 and more …$40,197…23%…(used $200k)</p>
<p>So the least financially well off are asked to pay the largest share of their income to pay for school most likely without an asset base that they can draw off … and some higher income folks are ****ed off that they pay more in absolute dollars although less as a percentage of their income (never mind they are much-much more likely to have some assets to help out). </p>
<p>Or said another way with this data … there was a comment on the ease someone could get loans for the $13k/yr … $52k for 4 years … or 175% of a $30,000 annual income. I wonder how many higher income folls complaining about the cost of schools are looking at costs at 40% of their income or loans of 175% of their income.</p>
<p>I’ll finish where I started … certainly a case of YMMV</p>
<p>They need only look at their own history will full payers, over the past 10-20 years, to determine where the richest veins are.</p>
<p>Schools use a similar system that the credit card companies use…and target zip codes that they know are loaded with higher income people. </p>
<p>Yes, higher income people tend to produce children with higher stats…no argument there. </p>
<p>However, when the elites have “relationships” with certain GCs at certain ivy-feeders/prep schools, they know that they’re going to get a good number of full-payers from those schools. We’ve often heard kids say, “I go to a top school that usually sends 25 kids to ivies.” Well, I doubt many of those 25 are “full need” students and the colleges know that.</p>
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<p>The data might be old or cumulative over four years, but note that Harvard’s FA plan assumes that family has “typical” assets. If a family has 0 income but significant savings and investments, they won’t necessarily get a full ride.</p>
<p>Mom2, love your quote marks around “relationships.”</p>
<p>I wonder how many higher income folks complaining about the cost of schools are looking at costs at 40% of their income or loans of 175% of their income.</p>
<p>Here’s my math. AGI of $150K. NU COA of $57K. Zero aid. That’s 38%.</p>
<p>I’ve saved up $200K total, for two kids, over 18 years of coupon clipping. (I was probably earning $50K AGI when I started. Yes, the stock market helped at times, and then it really hurt at others.) Let’s say No. 1 Son goes to NU, and COA increases a mere 5% per year. Total COA would be 245K. In our situation, we’d have to borrow $145K, or just less than total income. (Hopefully the economy will pick up, and I’ll start getting raises again.)</p>
<p>What does YMMV mean?</p>
<p>YMMV…Your mileage may vary.</p>
<p>As the OP, I’d like to celebrate Post 200 of “Thread of the Year,” and “give back” at the same time, with the following exciting raffle offer! It’s open to all the spoiled, workaholic, 4.5 GPA (weighted) wunderkind out there and the sticker-shocked, whiney, “not rich enough” parents who love them…</p>
<p>Yes, you can WIN my 1994 Volvo Wagon (also currently posted for sale in my driveway and on cars.com at $3,700 OBO). Folks, its white paint still shines and it’s got just 150K miles (my wife would say 100K too many); the turbo still shows those soccer moms from Highland Park in their Escalades “the business.” My wife got a “new” used VW wagon, so the Volvo is up for grabs and can be YOURS. Has “Tried ‘n True” cassette tape player technology; can play Harry Potter books-on-tape while you haul your kids to “vacations” with family in Cleveland and Pittsburgh, as it did for us. Sure it leaks oil, but it’s got the factory 3rd-row seat to carry your own progeny as you shuttle them to “gifted” classes. It’s also the same car in which “No. 1 Son” learned to drive, and it’ll gamely suffer the same for your kids. Also great for dropping them off at their golf caddy or baby-sitting jobs!</p>
<p>To enter, PM me and I’ll send wire transfer instructions for the $150 raffle ticket fee. All proceeds go to the “Spoiled Overachiever NU Tuition Fund.” (Soon to be registered as a 501(c)(3)) I just need to sell 1,000 tickets…so…</p>
<p>Enter today! (And thanks for making this post bearable.)</p>