<p>A person’s income and considered wealth is directly related to where they live. A family making $150,000 in one part of the country will get financial aid from a school and still have plenty of money to live on. Another family making twice that living in the NY - Long Island area will not get any financial aid and have to scrape by every month just to make ends meet due to taxes, insurance, oil costs, etc. They may be Obama wealthy but certainly are not!</p>
<p>Life is a smorgasborg, full of choices that cost us money. The neighborhood we live in, our house, our autos, private school, music enrichment, sports, vacations, private high schools, paying full freight at an expensive school without debt, how many kids we have,to name a few. How many of the above items you can afford depends on your wealth.</p>
<p>Our family chose 2 kids, music enrichment and paying full freight at an expensive school without debt. </p>
<p>What OP has shown us is that even with a $450K income, you can’t have it all.</p>
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<p>Taking out even the most a school will cost, about 50k, will NOT put a family making 450k a year into bankruptcy.</p>
<p>I know it’s been said before … but I think it’s the “upper middle class” thing that has set people here on edge. We don’t make 1/4 of what OP makes, but we know that WE are upper middle class. OP’s income simply is not middle class in any way, and the fact that it is presented as being middle class makes many defensive … as in, do you have a clue what the rest of the country earns, dude? </p>
<p>I certainly don’t have a problem with people having that much money (wish I did) or wanting to minimize their cash outlay for college (I would). But if I did have that much, I would hope that I would be in touch enough with reality to understand that I am indeed very, very fortunate (and very, very NOT middle class).</p>
<p>Maybe we can make a new category–lower upper class. As an earlier poster said, this income level is a new one for us on CC.</p>
<p>“But if I did have that much, I would hope that I would be in touch enough with reality to understand that I am indeed very, very fortunate (and very, very NOT middle class).”</p>
<p>I suspect that your attitude would change if you got there.</p>
<p>I recommend reading “The Millionaire Next Door.” It has a fair amount on attitudes of the wealthy (in terms of assets; not income) that are counterintuitive to most that aren’t there yet.</p>
<p>Now that I would buy into! 
(the lower upper class)</p>
<p>BCEagle, I am familiar with the fact that folks who have a lot don’t think they do. My best friend is in that situation. It took time to climb the ladder, and during that time she got used to the money & what it allows her to have - at the same time, she was exposed to people with more & she realized that there is a lot she doesn’t have. Thus, she will never be well off in her own mind. Sad.</p>
<p>I respect folks who are successful and have worked hard to get there. I think the rub here is that the op (with all due respect) stated, “We have a fairly good income”</p>
<p>this seemed to invite emotional reactions since it doesn’t really acknowledge that $450K per yr is well, quite a bit better than a fairly good income. be proud of your success, and own that it gives you many choices. for example the choice to say hmm…if we do the fafsa it may work for merit aid, but might hinder chances at the top schools. simply having that choice to file or not is advantageous. </p>
<p>Given the economy those who don’t have to request financial aid are being given opportunities at schools they may not have otherwise been accepted to. Going to a top school certainly has the potential to increase the student’s future financial success. </p>
<p>still as a parent she has a right to explore options for her son–if he’s a strong student as you say, he would qualify for merit aid at many schools. (unless he’s only looking at Ivies) so opening his choices up would open up those options too. (as others have pointed out you may need the fafsa filed for merit aid)</p>
<p>Well I guess the OP will just have to live in no man’s land as the truly wealthy in this Country would snicker at people making that salary calling themselves wealthy based on that alone. In their world, describing themselves as upper middle class would be considered correct modesty. Well to do is how, in common vernacular, they would probably be described in wealthy circles. And certainly during the boom, when an ever increasing number were making that kind of money, many among the wealthy and very well to do would have described them as upper middle class.</p>
<p>But we’ve lost touch with the fact that the OP was not looking for sympathy, just how to get merit aid.</p>
<p>I applaud those of you who chose full time community service and choose to make the financial limitations of doing so your real world. We need both folks who give their time to make the world a better place and those who give their money, so who’s to judge what the real world making the biggest contribution is?</p>
<p>Someone on CC posted that his family income is $750K and they are immigrant to boot.</p>
<p>the OP never mentioned merit aid in their initial post. They wanted to know if it was worth filling out Fafsa. The Cc posters told them that some colleges require the fafsa to be considered for merit aid. We also told them that anyone can take out the unsub stafford loan. </p>
<p>WE told the OP that the only aid they were likely to get was merit aid and that the colleges the OP mentioned their kid planned on applying to don’t offer merit aid.</p>
<p>Right-om cpthouse. I like your style</p>
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<p>If that’s the case, then I certainly hope that I never get to that level. I would not want to be so out of touch that I would be unable to appreciate my own good fortune.</p>
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I’m not doing any judging here, I just don’t appreciate the whining and grousing from the top over how miserable their lives are because they can’t have everything they want.</p>
<p>I think you are right that they aren’t truly “wealthy”. “Wealth” is a state of mind, unfortunately, which some people will never attain.</p>
<p>“I would not want to be so out of touch that I would be unable to appreciate my own good fortune.”</p>
<p>I think that you’re already there.</p>
<p>“I’m not doing any judging here, I just don’t appreciate the whining and grousing from the top over how miserable their lives are because they can’t have everything they want.”</p>
<p>“I think you are right that they aren’t truly “wealthy”. “Wealth” is a state of mind, unfortunately, which some people will never attain.”</p>
<p>Sounds like you have a wicked case of sour grapes.</p>
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<p>But the point is, its a choice you are making in order to pay for extras. I don’t begrudge you that choice – I paid for music lessons and dance studio fees too. But I understood that it was a privilege – and even within that privilege there were choices to be made. For example, classes at the community center were significantly cheaper than classes with private teachers or at private studios. At various times I made different choices, but I never felt that my kid was entitled - or that I was obligated - to opt for the “best” or most expensive option available. </p>
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I have to borrow to send my kid to a private college … why is it “animosity” to expect people who are far better off than I am to do the same, if they are unwilling or unable to pay the full cost out of pocket? </p>
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Why isn’t “the right education” synonymous with “public education.”? </p>
<p>I don’t have any problem with your choice to send your kids to private school. The problem I have is with making that choice and then complaining that it leaves you coming up short for other expenses. </p>
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And they shouldn’t! I would be absolutely mortified to complain about some adjustment I had to make in my lifestyle to a neighbor whose kid is attending the local community college. I assume they are probably envious of my kid’s good fortune, and I try to be considerate and speak highly of their kid’s accomplishments and the schools they attend. </p>
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<p>I am sending my daughter to private college because it is an option I can manage to afford right now – it certainly is NOT a necessity, and if the financial aid hadn’t worked out for us then she would attend whatever public school we could afford. </p>
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There is no rage here – I don’t think that high income people who don’t want to pay for private colleges should “freely pay”. I think they should send their kids to public school if they don’t want to pay for private. If they can find some private school that will give their kids a large chunk of merit money, that’s fine by me too – the private colleges can conduct their business however they choose. My problem is with the lament, “we want Harvard but we don’t want to pay what Harvard costs”. </p>
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Because the people who get discounts via grant-based aid all have a significantly lower standard of living. The trustees of HPY have decided that they don’t want to subsidize your higher standard of living. </p>
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That’s a problem, but not at your end of the spectrum. The problem is with truly middle-income families (the $50-$70K earners) who are struggling with the the spiraling costs of their in-state publics, and lower income families who can’t manage that at all. </p>
<p>There really isn’t such a huge qualitative difference between private and public colleges. An Ivy is better than a typical state public, but it’s not $30K better. </p>
<p>The elite colleges-- the so-called “BEST” ones - in theory take only the best and the brightest students. But every student who is capable of being admitted to one of those schools, also has the innate capability to achieve a stellar education at any public research university in the country. Harvard needs them a lot more than they need Harvard (which is why Harvard is willing to subsidize a certain percentage of students with lesser incomes). </p>
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A “less capitalistic” system would be one focused on a public education system, such as Canada’s. The minute you add private schools to the mix, you are talking about a commodity which will be priced at whatever the market can bear.</p>
<p>I am going to enter this fray again to bring up some issues that are not being taken into account from some CC folks that I hold in high esteem and whose advice and support have helped me a lot.</p>
<p>I understand fully that I live a privileged life. There is no “woe is me” here. I want to bring up that when a family makes $20K a year, the options and responsibilities and expectations are quite different than for one who makes 10X the amount. In our particular situation with seriously allergic and sick members of the family, the cost of getting our yard cut even with all of the boys we had was a responsible decision. The risks and side effects of doing yard care with our family medical issues would have made it very dollar foolish for us to cut in that particular area. Yes, if we made far less than that, we would have had to make the cut and take the risks ourselves. But not to allocate that expense in our case would not have been frugal, thrifty or even “cheap”, but foolhardy, considering what was at stake. To let the lawn go to pot with sub neighborhood care is not being a responsible citizen in our income bracket either. Yes, if we lost our money and did not have it, believe me, the lawn costs would have been cut in an instant.</p>
<p>When you make a certain threshhold income and have the assets, there are things that become a responsibility that those who do not have that luxury cannot and do not address. My son is in the company of people who have unreliable cars, for instance, because they do not have the money to get another vehicle or keep their vehicles in good repair. It is considered par for the course when someone’s car does not work. In our situation, it is a responsibility to have a safe and reliable car. It is a necessity. </p>
<p>I shop for my stuff and the kids at thrift shops and yard sales. To do that for H would be folly as he works on Wall Street and presenting a sharp image is part of his job and contributes to his market value. So we spend more money on his clothes than many families do for their breadwinner. It would be foolish for us not to do so.</p>
<p>My MIL broke her dentures. If we were in a different financial situation, it would be just tough luck until enough $$s could be accumulated to replace them, and we would find the cheapest clinic. I think in our income bracket it would have been a cruel thing for us to have gone that route. Yeah, we replaced them. They were expensive and I looked for a reputable dentist who was gentle with elderly folk. It was not the cheapest alternative, I’m sure.</p>
<p>Our health coverage does not include Memorial Sloan Kettering. My son was treated on a protocol put together by a doctor there. It seems to me that it is a very good use of a lot of money to have his follow up cancer survivor care done there even though it means hefty out of network, above ordinary and customary fees to do so. </p>
<p>Yes, these things are all luxuries for most of the world, and I am ever so grateful to be in the category where not only are they possible for us to do, but expected at our income level. If we were not at that level, we would have to cut costs drastically and do without.</p>
<p>Yes, I bought new glasses, when my old lenses were so scratched up, it was impeding my vision. If I were not in the financial situation where I could do so, I could have done without and gone quite a while longer with the old glasses, but given the fact I drive a lot in heavy traffic, and vision is a pretty high priority, I think I would have been fool hardy to have put off the purchase as someone who did not have the money would have to do. </p>
<p>I can go down the list en nauseum but I think you get what I am saying. One of the things in life we have to decide is what is important and responsible and make priorities for it. THen there comes the personal opinion part. The importance of having college choice is a personal thing and though it is high on my personal list, I have to address family issues that are more important on a universal scale. </p>
<p>So balancing act are at every income level and unless someone is at a point where high tuitions are easy to pay; the money is there to pay it, all of us look for the best alternatives and options available to meet the cost. It is the smart way to approach many things in life. I truly believe that there is a mean spiritedness that is seeping through some posts when it is perceived or actually is the situation that a poster is well to do. I am respectfully asking that this meanness be put in check as I really feel that anyone should feel a social pressure here to justify what their income and asset levels are. There are hard rejoinders to make for any economic situation.</p>
<p>Cpt, stop apologizing, no need for a bit of guilt. If your husband has survived on Wall Street, he’s very hard working. A gardener is just fine even if you don’t have allergies. So is living well in general.</p>
<p>Scrimping and saving is a necessity for most, but if you use your talents to make a lot of money, no apology is ever necessary.</p>
<p>There is no need to justify. I don’t understand why people need to constantly apologize for making money. I don’t feel rich, but by this thread’s standard I may be. Do I feel like I am fortunate or lucky? Heck no. There is nothing lucky or fortunate of the kind of income I am able to generate. It all comes from hard work and sacrifice. I made my own choice. I don’t have the luxury of taking the summer off when my kids are home, or go to every one of their events. I don’t even have the option of going to doctor’s appointment with my kids sometimes. I make a point of getting home by 8pm every night, which most of colleagues don’t do, and they have done better than me financially because of the personal sacrifice they have made to make. Because of my hardwork, I want my kids to be entitled to better education and certain benefit that comes with it. At the same time, I could understand how OP feels, it would be nice if we could also get a bit of break in getting some discount, instead of constantly paying to subsidize other people.</p>
<p>My rant.</p>
<p>No apologies, no guilt. Younger kids don’t have the allergies and have come up with a deal with neighbors to mow both lawns as neighbor is now a SAHM who has decided to add gardening to her activities. But she does not want to mow the lawn, and her H does not have time to do it, so they bought a nice lawn mower and worked out a deal with my boys who will do our lawn as well. We’ll see how it goes.</p>
<p>Yes, I am looking to cut expenses without being irresponsible and costing in other ways so that we can pay next years tuitions without parent loans. Despite earning what many may feel is an income adequate to pay those tuitions and take out those loans. It is a balancing act, I do complain, I do look for options, ask for advice, but do not feel entitled to anything other than what is out there to discover. I have taken out loans this year, and will next year if it comes to that, but if there is a way that it can be avoided without being too painful, I would like to do that instead. </p>
<p>Actually taking a loan is both a responsibility and a privilege. That we can even consider taking the loan is a privilege, but one we would like to avoid if possible. For those who are financially constrained, taking a loan may not be a viable route.</p>