<p>$60 a MONTH for the gardener LOL. It takes literally 15 minutes for his crew to mow and pick up. The rest is a la carte. We are paying the boys $40, but it will take them a lot more time to do the work as they don’t have the equipment. This guy does most of our street in just a couple of hours once a week the way he has it organized, and collects about $1000 for that time. We are on the “budget plan” as all we have him do is mow. We have a small company that uses safe stuff for fertilizer and pest control, and everything else ourselves.</p>
<p>And students can work for the money to pay for books, additional food, shoes, clothes, etc. My S is 15; I expect him to work on campus for his additional food, etc. costs. Over time, I’ll expect him to pay for his own books, too, but I’ll be funding them for at least the first semester (and likely the second semester, too). </p>
<p>Flagship State U here is just over $8K/year right now. That’s tuition only, of course; I’m sure there are many people who don’t live close enough to a college to commute to it, but I’m also sure there are many people who DO live close enough to a college to commute. There are many many many colleges which, even with additional food and shoes and transportation and books and clothes, do not cost $50K/year.</p>
<p>1.) No one is entitled to a college education on someone else’s dime (including my kid).
2.) No one is entitled to an away-at-school experience on someone else’s dime (including my kid).</p>
<p>All that said, if one wants a private college experience for one’s kid, and one is smart enough to have made the choices for education and field of work and worked hard and smart, and so on so as to have a high income, one shouldn’t be surprised that such colleges are expensive. I’ve been tracking college expenses for many years, just as I’ve saved for many years so that I would have at least enough money to afford Flagship State U. Yes, college costs have gone up faster than wages, but they’ve been doing that for over a decade; how much private colleges cost now is, indeed, plenty o’ dough, but if one has been tracking college costs (to figure out the contributions to the college fund), one knew that would be the case.</p>
<p>“one shouldn’t be surprised that such colleges are expensive.”</p>
<p>Part of that expense is for the subsidy of others. If the subsidy weren’t there, then the price would decrease.</p>
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<p>kmccrindle, I agree with you! Thanks for that refreshing post! Yes, there are people with heated year round swimming pools, those with expensive cars, people who have managed several European vacations and now want financial aid. I am not talking about those people. There are also many people who have spent a bit of money to have a lawn mowed (no, we are not paying a gardener), or who dare to buy a steak for dinner twice per month. Shocking if tennis shoes are bought on sale for under $40 (not talking about families who by $200 tennis shoes), but were not purchased used through Goodwill. Something is so wrong with our system that families cannot have any breathing room, or they get attacked when they are looking for college tuition help. It was truly refreshing for me to read your post!</p>
<p>BC, </p>
<p>ALL students are subsidized in some way; what colleges do you know of claim that tuition covers 100% of the cost of educating a student? </p>
<p>And whether there’s a subsidy or not, and regardless of who pays for it, the fact remains that college costs are not an unknown – one could plan for them, should one have wanted to. That the increase in college costs is faster than wage increases and inflation is not a new thing; it’s been happening for a while now! </p>
<p>cpt,</p>
<p>Okay, $60 for the gardener, and $40 for the kids. So saving $20/month. I’d have bought a used mower (or checked on Freecycle to see if I could get one for free!) and had a family member mow for no pay; if the family is on an “austerity program,” everyone pitches in. But that’s just me.</p>
<p>calmom,</p>
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<p>It IS a huge trap if with that money, you “have” to purchase artifacts. That is one of the points made very clearly in The Millionaire Next Door. I have friends who have much nicer houses than I do, in posher neighborhoods, and little or no college savings for their kids; they are busy paying for newer cars and yard care and hair care (it amazes me what some spend on hair care!) and so on.</p>
<p>“Shocking if tennis shoes are bought on sale for under $40 (not talking about families who by $200 tennis shoes),”</p>
<p>Where did you find $200 tennis shoes? I just went through every supplier of tennis shoes at Tennis Warehouse and their high-end shoes are around $120. We bought four pairs of running and tennis shoes this weekend at the New Balance Factory Outlet for $93 (total). I did notice the prices are up so it looks like they are trying to push through price increases.</p>
<p>Kids are different in that they are your primary responsibility as you brought them into the world (usually). If everyone did a good job taking care of their own, then there would be less need for more public support but it’s clear that many do not do a sufficient job here so public support is necessary. If you don’t take care of yours first, they could become a burden to society.</p>
<p>kmccrindle, I’m not begrudging anyone anything… except whining!!!</p>
<p>BC, for you: [Most</a> Expensive Tennis Shoes BrandDunk](<a href=“http://branddunk.com/2008/06/02/most-expensive-tennis-shoes/]Most”>http://branddunk.com/2008/06/02/most-expensive-tennis-shoes/)</p>
<p>:)</p>
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<p>I didn’t. I don’t look for this kind of thing, and don’t have the money for it. I just know a family that “brags” about buying tennis shoes for that kind of money for their kids. I don’t know where they buy them. They happen to be the perfect example of a middle class family with debt, btw. They had to sell one house and move to a lower cost area to pay off debt. Now, they ran up their credit cards all over again (it only took a year). These are people who drive a new Mercedes, have all new furnishings in their new home, and by designer clothes (not just one item, but most of their clothing has a designer name and it is bought in quantity).</p>
<p>“ALL students are subsidized in some way; what colleges do you know of claim that tuition covers 100% of the cost of educating a student?”</p>
<p>Find a college where price exceeds average price where endowments aren’t part of the picture or where they have been hit pretty hard. One could argue that the endowment earnings as subsidies argument is crap too.</p>
<p>“And whether there’s a subsidy or not, and regardless of who pays for it, the fact remains that college costs are not an unknown – one could plan for them, should one have wanted to. That the increase in college costs is faster than wage increases and inflation is not a new thing; it’s been happening for a while now!”</p>
<p>Colleges costs are an unknown for a lot of people. I would guess that most parents don’t pay attention until their kids are in high school and that most start looking in the junior year. There is so much propaganda around that you’ll get a pass if you study hard and you listen to that from your peers - not the other parents that are actually going through the process.</p>
<p>State University prices are a crapshoot right now. There are some big tuition hikes but that might be offset by stimulus money. Maybe for this year and next. What happens then? I guess prices won’t be set until budgets pass which will be in a few months.</p>
<p>I could say that using financial and technical analysis of the markets is a known quantity too. Investors should know how to ride bubbles up and then short them on the way down. It’s so easy and there are plenty of books and services to teach you the methods. Why doesn’t everyone know this stuff? Well, it takes a considerable amount of time to study and then put the study into practice. In practical terms, only a few percent of the population knows this stuff.</p>
<p>You never know about the designer stuff - it’s not hard to get counterfeit stuff that is 99.99% the same as the real stuff if you have the right connections.</p>
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<p>But… but… if someone is telling me that he/she is “working harder and smarter” than other people, and that’s why that person has a high income, wouldn’t that person be “working harder and smarter” to fund college savings, and wouldn’t that include tracking college costs? If someone such as I, who must not be “working harder and smarter” because I don’t have the high income the other person has, knows enough to track college costs early on and monitor them, surely someone who is “working smarter” would do the same, right? And wouldn’t that person be doing it better than I could possibly do it??</p>
<p>Oh, I’m so confused!!</p>
<p>And technical analysis?? Bah! It’s fundamental analysis for me!! :D</p>
<p>“But… but… if someone is telling me that he/she is “working harder and smarter” than other people, and that’s why that person has a high income, wouldn’t that person be “working harder and smarter” to fund college savings, and wouldn’t that include tracking college costs?”</p>
<p>One could very well work harder and smarter to generate income.</p>
<p>That doesn’t necessarily imply that they are spending an equivalent amount of time in analysis in all other aspects of their life. So the answer to your question is no.</p>
<p>“If someone such as I, who must not be “working harder and smarter” because I don’t have the high income the other person has, knows enough to track college costs early on and monitor them, surely someone who is “working smarter” would do the same, right? And wouldn’t that person be doing it better than I could possibly do it??”</p>
<p>You may be spending smarter out of necessity.</p>
<p>You can work on college costs from the revenue or expense side or both. Those with high income probably work more on the revenue side because they have an advantage there. Those without the high income have to work on the expense side or leverage up because they don’t have the options on the revenue side.</p>
<p>My oldest is home for a visit and went to a designer sample sale for whoever does Converse stuff. He came home with quite a haul. The shoes were $15 a piece, the most expensive of the items. He had some very nice things for a buck or two including a great denim bag for ME!</p>
<p>All right, no whining, but complaining has to be allowed, doesn’t it? I do complain a lot, I guess, even when I know that I am fortunate to have such complaints. I always have visions of the starving kids across the world when I hear reprimands about complaining, a leftover from my childhood days staring at a full but unwanted plate!</p>
<p>Northeastmom, families with that kind of a spending problem can cut the spending to get the extra. The problem comes when every cut is hitting some nerves. We are looking at some expenditures that are not life threateningly necessary, but certainly responsible one to make at this time and necessary for pretty important quality of life and safety issues. Granted, those without the money to do these things simply will do without. But in our situation, we have to fix our danged front walkway for MIL’s wheelchair and also because of the trip factors that are now there. Put it off a bit too long as it goes. Also need woodwork fixed that is rotting outside of our house. All luxuries, but something strongly recommended to do.</p>
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<p>Oh, complain away!! Complaining is always allowed, especially if you do it with a sense of humor!!</p>
<p>I wish the OP would let us know whether he/she is going to save $80K in the manner I suggested; that’s a good chunk of change IMHO.</p>
<p>Your advice was terrific, Owlice. That is the sort of stuff that really shows that there are ways to do this that are not spelled out in those perky financial articles. It’s the stuff I seek on CC.</p>
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<p>That simply is not true. The system is rigged in favor of those with higher incomes every step of the way. </p>
<p>Quite a few posters here have complained about the high cost of private tuition for their kids over the years, as well as the tuitions they need to continue to pay for younger siblings when their oldest start college. (I have yet to see any poster complaining that Posh Prep isn’t giving them financial aid). They also seem to complain about the expenses of living in their upscale houses in their upscale neighborhoods… so I think that it is fair that they don’t live in the inner city. At least in my state, the public schools in the wealthier neighborhoods tend to be pretty good. </p>
<p>The cost of college tuition at a private college is about 70-80% of my income, before adjustments – more like 90% of my AGI. (I’m talking tuition alone – whatever difference exists in housing costs are geographical, and dorm fees at schools like UC Berkeley are as high or higher than most private colleges). The cost of tuition for the OP is about 8% of their income. </p>
<p>My daughter qualifies for enough financial aid to bring my costs down to something more like 60% of my AGI. There is no way that anyone could reasonably expect me to pay cash out & live on the balance – I assume they expect me to borrow. (My FAFSA EFC would be VERY affordable – the highest it has been in 4 years was $5600, for next year its around $3500 – but the “100% need” private college my daughter attends expects me to pay $10-$15K above the FAFSA EFC. But the public U. wouldn’t have met the FAFSA EFC either – their offers “gapped” by about $5K, so EFC can only be understood as meaning “at least” in the financial aid world, as in: parents will be expected to pay “at least” the amount of the EFC). </p>
<p>Kids with money were advantaged in the admission process— almost all of the students admitted to my daughter’s college from our area came from private schools. That’s not too big a surprise – about 40% of the class is drawn from ED, and ED is one of the ways that private colleges cheat at that need-blind stuff. They know that most of the ED pool are full-pays. The admit rate for the ED pool at my daughter’s college is about double the rate for the RD pool. So just the “getting in” in part is twice as hard – and that is not even considering the comparative lack of resources of her school as compared to the private schools.</p>
<p>So there’s no “rigging” going on – there’s just an effort to even the playing field a little for kids whose families could not possibly come up with the full tuition.</p>
<p>“Kids with money were advantaged in the admission process— almost all of the students admitted to my daughter’s college from our area came from private schools.”</p>
<p>This is merely anecdotal. And even if it weren’t, full pays are still subsidizing those with need-based aid.</p>
<p>450K is “upper middle class?” That is hysterical. That income puts you in the top 3% of household incomes in the United States. </p>
<p>Can someone please explain to me how it’s possible to be in the top 3% of something and still be able to claim to be any part of the middle with a straight face?</p>