<p>This conversation happens on this board all the time. People with more money than other people talk about how hard it is to not be able to afford a super expensive college when some poor kid gets to go for free. :rolleyes:</p>
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<p>THIS. Seeing and hearing people talk about how they wish they were low income because college would be affordable… NOPE. Even just a thousand a semester will be very difficult-- I’ve saved up money in hopes that I will be able to pay for books, house dues, and meal plan for at least the first year. Hoping I can get a job on top of work study, but it’s still really scary.</p>
<p>When you’re poor (i.e. four kids living with your mom who makes $17,000 a year), having an EFC of 0 just means that it might be possible for you to afford college at a school that meets full need-- if you also get a job so you can work on top of whatever fin aid you get to close the inevitable gap. What sounds like a little money to rich people is a massive amount when you’re poor. Personally, even if my college charges me $0 for tuition and boarding, there are still all the “hidden” funds, I’m guessing about $1700 worth a semester, that I know I will not be able to ask any money from my family for. </p>
<p>I’m trying to make it happen by working a lot and getting a few jobs for the summer. But I don’t have the advantage of getting to keep all the money that I make like middle class kids do. I have to give most of it to the family so my siblings can eat, get school materials, clothes, etc. It’s not easy.</p>
<p>I’m just saying that it’s just plenty stressful for low income people too. Looks like it’s primarily upper-middle class anecdotes up here (which is 100% expected, frankly) and 6 pages of almost pure privilege seemed a little excessive. Just putting it out there. Hoping at least a few people feel uncomfortable now.</p>
<p>Quick note-- This post is NOT to whine or complain. College is a privilege. I am beyond lucky to attend, especially considering my financial situation. This is just some perspective.</p>
<p>*And you refute my argueing about “no-loan” policies by saying that is not common. I agree it is not common, but I don’t think it should exist at all. If Stafford loans amounts were required for all, more aid could be given.
*</p>
<p>I think there is a method to the madness of “no loan” schools that you may not be considering.</p>
<p>No loan schools allow a student to…</p>
<p>1) take out a loan to help parents with an unaffordable EFC</p>
<p>2) take out a loan to cover travel/personal expenses or “summer earnings contribution” when a summer job can’t be found.</p>
<p>3) take out a loan when a work-study job can’t be found.</p>
<p>4) take out a loan to help cover the portion that a NCP refuses to pay.</p>
<p>I really doubt that many kids who get aid AND who attend no-loan schools are really emerging debt free. If you look at the debt stats for some of these no-loan schools, these kids are still taking out loans. </p>
<p>Here’s an example of one…Vanderbilt…a no loan school.</p>
<p>Average indebtedness at graduation: $18,605</p>
<p>Here’s another…</p>
<p>Harvard:<br>
Average indebtedness at graduation: $10,102</p>
<p>When loans are already included in FA packages, kids have no way to help their parents with unaffordable EFCs…which many have.</p>
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<p>Why so argumentative? I’m saying that if small donors, such as myself, are given the choice of directing contributions then large donors are certainly given the same consideration! I read about directed donations being given all the time and many schools have an entire office set up for the purpose of soliciting and handling such gifts. I have to believe that big donors are certainly capable of specifying that their gifts be used for specific purposes, such as named scholarships, buildings, or need-based aid…and colleges have a huge interest in taking their money, even if such “strings” are attached!</p>
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<p>Well, that may be true, but who would the aid be given to? Have you looked at the “no loan” provisions for the very well-endowed schools? Seems like they have made a generous commitment to the middle, and even upper, incomes already…and have decided that there is no point in subsidising the wealthy. Some schools are in the habit of subsidizing everyone and hand out scholarships left and right, even if they don’t meet need. But as enrollment managers have discovered, the lower the price, the less “desirable” the school becomes in the eyes of many applicants and their families. I think it can be a double-edged sword. And, btw, how could one “require” a student to borrow?</p>
<p>Of course a student can not be required to borrow, but a student can be offered grants and loans and he can either take or not take. </p>
<p>I think there is frustation –</p>
<p>I sense that you’re frustrated that your child won’t receive as much aid as you would like. But, I really doubt that it’s because of these no-loan schools.</p>
<p>Well that’s how much the school costs. I don’t really have another choice. I know people with way more student loans than that.</p>
<p>Huh? Mom2, was that directed at me (I can’t figure out how threads/replies work, if at all)? No I would not expect any aid for my child. That doesnt mean I can not have sympathy for kids caught in the middle – too much income for a lot of aid/not enought that it can be paid easily if at all.</p>
<p>*Well that’s how much the school costs. I don’t really have another choice. I know people with way more student loans than that. *</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>You’ve already have told us that you have less expensive options. You’ve mentioned that you’ve been offered a good scholarship for another school. You’re just choosing a more expensive option. </p>
<p>*I got half tuition somewhere but that isn’t where I want to go. I suppose I will just drown in loans. *</p>
<p>There are nearly always less expensive options other than taking out large loans and don’t deeply regret it. </p>
<p>And…I know lots of people with lots more debt than I have…that doesn’t mean that they’ve made an intelligent decision.</p>
<p>And…more importantly…That also doesn’t mean that they won’t have a very miserable time paying them back for a very LONG time…now does it?</p>
<p>Instead of talking to current students and their debt levels, try talking to some 25 year olds with BIG DEBT who’ve graduated in the last 2-4 years. find out THEIR real opinions about paying back their loans and how its negatively affected their lives.</p>
<p>I don’t really see how low EFC students are better off than the upper-middle class students here. I mean, if these full-pay or near full-pay families were willing to lower their standard of living to equal that of low EFC families by living as if they had the same income, then they would have enough money left over to equal or exceed the aid these lower-income students are getting, no? Low EFC families aren’t getting access to options that high EFC families don’t also have access to. I do agree that the comfortably upper class have it better here, but then, that’s nothing new :P</p>
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<p>That’s like saying that the car you want costs $50K so you’re forced to borrow that much. I agree with Mom2 and would urge you to really apply yourself to finding some lower cost solutions, unless your parents are both willing and able to repay those private loans. We’ve heard from many students who say they regret having big loans, or have had to transfer to a cheaper school or drop out altogether because they couldn’t get approved in subsequent years. They would have been far better off starting at an affordable school and transferring to the “name” school for their last two years…same degree, half the debt load.</p>
<p>Finaid.org has a variety of loan calculators that you should experiment with. If you decide to borrow $50-60K for undergrad, please go in with your eyes wide open and be prepared to struggle and give up things that you may want or need later on.</p>
<p>*If you decide to borrow $50-60K for undergrad, please go in with your eyes wide open and be prepared to struggle and give up things that you may want or need later on. *</p>
<p>I think there are few things less frustrating than working and struggling with student loan debt WHILE seeing that your collegues are being paid the same as you are, but they went to less expensive schools. Those colleagues will have money to travel or to buy a new home or car…while you’re struggling to make rent and to make payments on large loans. </p>
<p>Time and time again on CC, graduates have posted that after about a year of paying back good-sized student loans…it gets really, really old…and regret sets in because less expensive options were available…</p>
<p>Wanton, excellent post. </p>
<p>(Vanderbilt just started the no loan policy in 2009-10, so the current average debt may be reduced in the next few years …)</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>True…</p>
<p>But there will always be kids taking out student loans to …</p>
<p>help parents with EFC and/or replace work-study or summer work requirement</p>
<p>I really like the idea that students can use a loan to help reduce parent EFC. Many parents assume that their kids will be able to do that and are then shocked to discover a full student loan amount already in the FA package.</p>
<p>I will be interested to see what happens at Vandy once all students in school are there under the no loan policy. I agree that it might not make a difference, since many will still continue to borrow to help out.</p>
<p>My EFC for this past year was 762, and for the next year it is 0. I am happy to say that I am loan-free this school year, but definitely NOT due to my need. I worked my butt off last year as a high school senior to get scholarships so I could go to school on my own. I’d say my ratio of need-based to merit-based aid this year was 30/70. I shake my head at threads like these because your EFC is more than my mom’s income. I know it can be frustrating, but please remember that others are in a lot tighter spot because they don’t have savings, 529s, or anything else of that sort. </p>
<p>My advice:
SCHOLARSHIPS!!!
And cheaper schools.</p>
<p>The State U is often disrespected, but the way I see it is that if you’re applying to a private, you’ll probably want to obtain your master’s. Why blow tons of money on your undergraduate when you’ll be swamped with debt when trying to get your graduate degree? Employers won’t care about your BS (in more ways than one) degree, they care about your master’s, what you focused on, and your GPA. Go to a State U. Then you can also afford things like study abroad, which is also a great resume enhancer.</p>
<p>Just my two cents. :)</p>
<p>The school I’m going to attend would be cheaper than the school that offered me half tuition.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Aren’t there any less expensive options?</p>
<p>Commuting to a SUNY? starting at a CC?</p>
<p>Your cheapest option should not require borrowing $15k per year.</p>
<p>What school is this?</p>
<p>“The school I’m going to attend would be cheaper than the school that offered me half tuition.”</p>
<p>That still doesn’t mean it’s affordable.</p>
<p>SUNY schools are 15 grand per year.</p>