FAFSA totally ridiculous?

<p>*Yet someone that grew up in a 40k a year income house hold living about the same as I am, gets at least half of their expenses covered *</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>Who says that they get at least half their costs covered? If that were the case a whole bunch more low income kids would be flooding the univs…yet they’re not. Fed aid isn’t much.</p>

<p>How is someone with a $40k income living the same life as someone with a highish EFC? They often have debt as well because their incomes don’t cover everything all the time as well. </p>

<p>You probably live in a nicer home than someone with a $40k income…maybe have better cars (or maybe more cars). </p>

<p>I don’t believe that some family living on $40k per year is living like you are.</p>

<p>It’s so very easy to “put off” thinking about future costs…so easy. We’re managing… this spring I’ll be halfway through putting 3 kids through college. Some from past savings, some from today’s income and some on a hope and prayer that the future will be steady income wise. Choices were made along the 24 years the kids were being born and heading out the door to college. Choices were made every single day, every single week, every single month. Alot of shocking financial things have happened to everyone over the past decade but the bottom line is still that kids can get a college education if they want, maybe not easily but they can. It may not be the path of choice, but then like I said choices are made all the time.</p>

<p>Again…we all make choices. </p>

<p>If we spend too much, choose a profession that pays squat, live in a high cost of living area…that’s our choice. Sometimes people get hit with bad luck. But spending too much on big home or high credit card debt is often a choice. </p>

<p>Kids don’t pick their parents. And sometimes parents make bad choices and regret them. And kids have to live with that. </p>

<p>I am also trying to figure out how we’ll pay for college, but am NOT complaining about the aid we may get. As much as I am appalled about the absurd cost of many schools, I am also stunned that many give out so much merit or need-based aid. They don’t have to, but they do. I am really appreciative of that. Hopefully, my kids will qualify for some of this. If not, they’ll go to a less expensive school.</p>

<p>I am also stunned that many give out so much merit or need-based aid. They don’t have to, but they do. I am really appreciative of that. Hopefully, my kids will qualify for some of this.* If not, they’ll go to a less expensive school**.*</p>

<p>Good point. These schools don’t have to provide aid/merit, but they do. And as you say, if your kids qualify, then great, if they don’t, you’ll seek affordable alternatives.</p>

<p>The way that the OP pooh-poohs her state schools and CCs makes me think that she only thinks that more prestigious schools are worthy for her kids. If you want those kinds of choices, then you need to be prepared to pay.</p>

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</p>

<p>I don’t make this stuff up…if you read the fafsa website carefully, you’ll see the following:</p>

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</p>

<p><a href=“https://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/aideligibility.jsp[/url]”>https://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/aideligibility.jsp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Students receive award packages above and below the EFC, depending on the school’s policies and funding. Federal student aid, other than loans, is intended to help economically disadvantaged students gain access to higher education. Economically disadvantaged does not mean that one simply has other obligations which consume income and assets, it means that the income and assets are very low to begin with. Most Pell recipients have family incomes well below $30K. As other posters have pointed out, the maximum Pell grant with an EFC of 0 is only $5500/year. While this is a huge help to low-income families, it barely covers tuition and fees at a low cost public institution.</p>

<p>Thank you for pointing that out Sk8trmom. My Daughter and I are now in the well under 30K group, after being solidly in the upper middle class. Stuff happens and you have to deal with it. I knew college was coming. I was learning the scholarship game since she was in 9th grade and life started going down hill. </p>

<p>She knew the only way to go to more than CC was to get good grades and high test scores. She did it. She now has 3 full ride merit scholarships offers and maybe a couple of Ivies, where if she gets accepted and attends, she’ll have no loans. </p>

<p>Is that unfair to the upper income kids? Maybe, but those upper income kids had a lot of advantages mine didn’t. For instance AP’s, test prep, better schools. High stats got her merit, and low income and high stats may get her financial aid, but she worked for it. </p>

<p>Some of you talk about cheap vacations or driving older cars as a hardship. Think about dinner and a movie being a budget busting luxury. That’s where we are now. I am ecstatic for her, but I’d trade these past few years of poverty for high income and high debt in a heart beat.</p>

<p>No accident I’m sure, that this is a message from “our sponsor”;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1236215-two-year-colleges-draw-more-affluent-students.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1236215-two-year-colleges-draw-more-affluent-students.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This is where some worlds collide…by world I mean my world in the mid 70’s and my that of my freshman and senior kids. In my world, I don’t recall the financial aid expectation. If you had the grades, but not the money, you could make your way in publics and/ or the military, and hoped you could pick a path that would make it better for your kids, like your parents made it better for you. Now, let them pick what they want, without regard to the odds for income, (yes, there will be outliers), but maybe their kids college choices will be “unfair”.</p>

<p>I agree, Shrinkrap, we were expected to go to public schools unless we could come up with scholarships to cover the additional cost. I don’t know how our generation managed to raise kids who have such high expectations and why so many of us apparently have a difficult time giving them a firm budget limit.</p>

<p>I don’t think a firm budget limit necessarily makes sense; I think of it more as a sliding scale along the value spectrum. Given the nontransparent pricing, it seems like the only rational approach is to look for possible values, put in the apps, and wait for the results. Once you have some actual price/quality points, then you can begin to make some intelligent choices.</p>

<p>

I agree. That’s our approach. D is applying to 11 schools. When other parents gasp upon hearing that number I simply reply, “we have to cast a wide net when fishing for scholarships.” </p>

<p>She may get a full ride to Salisbury or $100k from Gettysburg or something in the middle from Bucknell. Who knows? Come April, there will be a very tough decision to make.</p>

<p>By “firm budget limit”, I meant an upper range of what the family can reasonably afford to contribute. That doesn’t preclude applying to more expensive school where merit or need-based aid is a possibility, but just gives the kid an idea of what offers will have to be in order to make them affordable and helps them to determine which schools can truly be considered safety schools. We get far too many posts from kids whose parents aren’t discussing this, or aren’t helping in the search/selection process, as well as those who find out in March that all of their acceptances are unaffordable.</p>

<p>For instance AP’s, test prep, better schools</p>

<p>My kids didn’t study for the college tests either- but they had enough homework from school that they really didn’t have time. They still were accepted to all the colleges that they applied.
As far as APs go, if the high school didn’t offer them, the college doesn’t expect the student to have taken them, although AP tests are still available to everyone.</p>

<p>*I don’t think a firm budget limit necessarily makes sense; I think of it more as a sliding scale along the value spectrum. Given the nontransparent pricing, it seems like the only rational approach is to look for possible values, put in the apps, and wait for the results. Once you have some actual price/quality points, then you can begin to make some intelligent choices. *</p>

<p>MisterK, I think you misunderstand. The budget limit is the most a family will PAY…not the highest COA allowed. Once you tell a child…“We can only pay X dollars per year,” then the child knows that if he wants to go a pricier school, then the difference needs to be made up with scholarships and need-based aid.</p>

<p>I think that the one problem I do see over and over on here is that FAFSA is info from the previous year. In this fast changing economic environment, it does not really provide for, or identify people that recently lost jobs or family members. Thus decreasing income, and often savings, from middle class with savings, to unemployent income only wihout any savings left. Those situations seem to be the most difficult to capture and make adjustments for. </p>

<p>As we were talking about “financial safety” schools for our son, we discussed worst case scenerio. And discussed that we needed to be prepared for both of us losing jobs, and our son having to pick up the rest of the cost of school through loans. Then pray that does not happen!</p>

<p>Most parents today don’t know how to say “no” to their children or how to set limits (financial or behavoral). I see it every day. Most parents just take the path of least resistance. </p>

<p>It’s the entitlement society today. Most people are not willing to work hard and/or sacrifice to get what they want. They demand that it be handed to them and then whine and complain that it is unfair when they don’t immediately get what they want.</p>

<p>@mom2college
I think I lost some brain cells reading your response to my post. What do cars or homes dont have anything to do with me specifically? Yeah my mom had a decent car whatever.You clearly missed my point and it seems a lot of people are missing the same point. My point is that my parents have no money to spend on my college, we are in the same boat as a family with a 40k income. My financial aid will never mirror that… While one might argue “I live better” which is false but again that is an assumption you made. How my PARENTS live has nothing to do with how much financial aid I should be granted. Because of my parents choices I am to suffer? That really makes no sense. Hopefully you can see the flaw in that. Like someone else said “kids don’t choose their parents.” Apparently I got some not so smart parents since they decided to take on a hefty about of debt.</p>

<p>Scienceguy- your family income is at least double national average, you live in an expensive area ( with good schools I imagine- otherwise why live there?) yet you are comparing yourself to a child from a low income family, but without the same opportunities.</p>

<p>You undoubtably have had a better education than many kids would from a family that makes less than national average income- so your parents have debt and aren’t able to pay many of your expenses from savings/income or loans.</p>

<p>Looks like you need to find schools which offer merit aid, take out Stafford loans & find what the minimum is that your parents are willing to contribute. With a 6 figure income, there surely is * some amount* they are able to contribute to your education.</p>

<p>Scienceguy1, it might not be fair, but what would your solution be? If students were all given enough financial aid so that college would be free for everyone, that means that private schools would need far larger endowments and scholarship funds, meaning that donors and alumni would need to pony up far more money. Public universities would need far greater contributions from their states, which would mean higher taxes. Even if you think these are good ideas (and in part I do), there simply isn’t enough money or desire for publics and privates to offer that kind of support.</p>

<p>If, on the other hand, you award every student the exact same amount of financial aid regardless of parent income and resources, then students won’t receive enough to pay for the full cost of the school. The well-off families will come up with the difference, and the poor will be unable to attend school.</p>

<p>Based on your other posts, it looks like you are a NJ resident who’s commuting to Rutgers. That’s an excellent school. Tuition and fees run $12k a year, most of which could be covered by a Stafford loan and a part time/summer job. If there’s still a gap of a few thousand dollars, it’s rather hard to expect people here to be sympathetic if a family with household income of $160k and no extraordinary expenses can’t come up with that kind of family contribution.</p>

<p>Scienceguy, the point is that your parents had, and still have, choices that those in the lowest income brackets do not. It’s their money to spend as they deem prudent…whether that’s living in a certain area, saving for retirement, buying things, or funding college. There is no money fairy and families have to stop expecting one to materialize. In this country, higher education is not a right and never has been. Students and families have ALWAYS borne the brunt of college costs, after taxpayer subsidies. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, students do have choices if their parents cannot afford college. There are military programs, community colleges, part-time study, etc. - all of which have been popular options for previous generations. These suggestions are usually countered with the “I’ve worked too hard to do X” argument. It’s pathetic in a way…</p>

<p>

Scienceguy, I invite you to propose a different system that will be fair to families, students and tax payers. I fail to see how you are suffering. Just because you can’t afford your #1 college choice?</p>