FAFSA vs PROFILE

Parents Forum
1

<p>My dd will be entering college for the first time this fall, so we are new to the financial aid game.</p>

<p>Is it typical that the FAFSA gives you a certain EFC, but the PROFILE says, "We think you can pay more than that"?</p>

<p>I got this impression from a financial aid session we attended at one of dd's prospective schools. If I interpreted it correctly, they said something to this effect:</p>

<p>"Everyone fills out the FAFSA, but we feel we need more information to be fair, so if you come here, you fill out the PROFILE too. We figure out your need, and we give you enough aid to cover it. Then, if you get outside scholarships, and if FAFSA says you need more than what we've given you, the outside scholarships can be used to cover that amount. If you get <em>more</em> outside scholarships, they can replace your loans and work-study. But if you get <em>even more</em> outside scholarships, then we have to start taking back our grant money."</p>

<p>After hearing this, I figured that PROFILE must be less generous than FAFSA. However, when I tried some online financial aid calculators, I found that our family may be in the opposite situation -- we need <em>more</em> financial aid using the PROFILE methodology than using FAFSA.</p>

<p>What do the colleges do then? If they are using PROFILE, do they give you enough aid to meet the PROFILE need, even if it's greater than the FAFSA need? Or do they use whichever one gives the highest EFC?</p>

2

<p>A lot of schools use both, and they determine how they apply them. As to the outside scholarships, what you were told is the norm, rather than the exception. Until your kids applies, is accepted and you receive your FA package, you won't know how the numbers work for you. Then, you can compare the offers.</p>

3

<p>Many private colleges use the PROFILE. I think it comes down to each individual college, to some degree, as to how the calculate things. We would have done better under FAFSA, then under the PROFILE. Our son's school takes into account our home equity. Our son received a 1/2 tuition Merit scholarship, so that greatly helped. However, in the end, our EFC, as computed by our son's school was higher than we had hoped (dang) but close enough so that we bit the bullet and went for it. The school was my son's number one choice, and the few extra thousand (and i don't mean to minimize the pain) but the few extra thousand was worth it, when considering how happy he is now at school. How much would you pay for your DD's happiness. (i know, i know, they really will be happy at just about any school, but you know what i mean, when it is their first choice).</p>

4

<p>Our PROFILE EFC was about $8K higher than our FAFSA EFC. The schools that asked for both used the PROFILE EFC when determining aid.</p>

5

<p>At minimum you file the FAFSA (at almost every school) to determine your eligibility for federal aid (Pell/ seog grants, stafford and perkins loans). The CSS profile is used at different colleges that distribute their own institutional aid.</p>

<p>Many schools that use a federal methodology to determine EFC will require only the FAFSA. Schools that use an instutional methodology or a combination of the 2 will require the CSS profile or their won FA forms.</p>

<p>Differences between the IM and FM models are</p>

<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>

<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>

<p>FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>

<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>

<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>

<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>

<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>

<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”</p>

<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>

<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>

<p>Your COA (cost of attendance) is tuition, room board, books travel expenses and some misc. expenses associated with attending college.</p>

6

<p>lgreen, the college will use set policies to determine how much aid that they give you. The Profile itself does not yield a number -- it provides information and the colleges are free to apply their own formula to whatever info the get to calculate need. The expected family contribution under Profile is usually higher than FAFSA, because the Profile considers resources such as home equity that are not included in the FAFSA; however, in some cases Profile also considers expenses not deducted from the FAFSA, such as private school tuition for younger siblings -- so it is possible to come up with a more generous award using the Profile. </p>

<p>Even when a college uses the Profile, the FAFSA figure needs to govern in order to determine eligibility for federal aid programs -- such as subsidized loans, work study, and Pell grants. So lets say your FAFSA EFC is $15,000 but you do better with the Profile, which comes out saying you have a contribution of $10,000. Lets say COA for the college is $40,000. If the college gives you a $25,000 grant, you would not be eligible for a subsidized Stafford loan, because under FAFSA your need has been fully met with the grant. </p>

<p>It sounds like the college where you attended the financial aid session has a great policy -- better than most. It is true that in most cases Profile comes out less favorably to the family than FAFSA, so the more typical situation would be a $10K FAFSA EFC and a $15K Profile EFC -- in that case, a typical college might give a $20K grant and $5K in loans/work study (meeting the Profile EFC), and any outside scholarships would be applied to reduce loans -- but if the student had a $10K outside scholarship, then their grant would be reduced by $5K.</p>

7

<p>What did I miss all these years? What is a "Profile EFC"? FAFSA calculates a EFC, but I thought the the information on the PROFILE was used by the COLLEGES to determine institutional aid. I don't recall seeing a "Profile EFC" anywhere. I will say that every college has a different formula to compute institutional aid (the reason there can be so much variation even at schools that meet "full need") using the PROFILE information...and in cases where the PROFILE is not used, the FAFSA information. DD applied to one private school that did not use the PROFILE. We did not qualify for any of the federal programs...therefore this school must have used the FAFSA info to determine the institutional aid they offered DD.</p>

8

<p>There is no single answer that applies to all colleges. Policies vary by institution and can even be amended over the course of a single admissions cycle. </p>

<p>The FAFSA and Profile provide different perspectives. The FAFSA is required by the federal government for the dispersement by colleges of federal money. The profile is a supplemental form that some colleges use. </p>

<p>Financial aid awards are very much discretionary, so you should make sure you are dialoguing with the financial aid office and with the admissions office to fully understand their policies and practices. Appeals are possible, too, when they are justified.</p>

9

<p>Thumper, you are right, there is no Profile EFC -- I was using the reference to "Profile EFC" as a short cut for "the amount of family contribution the college determines is appropriate by utilizing information on the Profile" -- which is what I explained in the second sentence of the paragraph above. </p>

<p>FAFSA yields an EFC and it governs one thing and one thing only: your eligibility for federally subsidized programs. It has nothing to do with how much grant money a college may give. </p>

<p>Colleges can use information from any source to decide how much aid to give. They can look at info on the FAFSA, the Profile, or ask for information via their own forms. </p>

<p>However, there is some thing like an "EFC" for colleges that use the Profile and claim to meet 100% need. It is that amount which is left over after you subtract grants and federally subsidized loans from the total cost of attendance. My daughter's college calls it "Resources" -- but I don't remember any specific term being used consistently. I call it, "we pay".</p>

10

<p>There's some great info here (Sybbie, WOW!). </p>

<p>If you all don't mind, I'd like to poll you since this topic is on the table. How do you feel about having to pay to submit the CSS Profile? UVA's Office of Financial Aid has used the FAFSA and their own supplement for quite some time. The last time the CSS Profile came up in conversation, someone mentioned that families pay $18 for each report. In the back of my mind, I knew there was a fee, but I didn't know how much it was.</p>

<p>My questions are: Is the $18 something you pay without hesitation? Do you think this is a reasonable expense considering the outcome may help with your child's aid package?</p>

<p>There isn't a big study going on at UVA about this. I'm just curious about how the fee is viewed on the applicant side.</p>

11

<p>Dean J, for my family the profile fee wasn't a big deal but as you might have read on my other posts I am currently helping a friend who has 0 parents and is living with Grandparents. For them they do not have the money for the profile....if she applies to schools that require it she will have to ask for a waiver. The first time she took the SAT I was not involved and her Aunt paid for it. The second time I explained the waiver process and she did not pay for the testing.<br>
That said, I do feel it is bogus to have to pay for it...it may not be an unreasonable amount but all of those reasonable amounts add up and up and up...</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
That said, I do feel it is bogus to have to pay for it...it may not be an unreasonable amount but all of those reasonable amounts add up and up and up...

[/quote]
I agree. After paying all of the various fees for tests, submitting scores, AP tests, application fees, Profile fees etc. it just really added up. DS applied to twelve schools, and most of them needed the Profile. In the scheme of total COA, it's not that much. But I'd guess we spent several thousand dollars on all of the testing plus application fees, which seemed like a lot to me. Even for kids who may get some kind of fee waiver, I'm sure it's difficult. It also seems unfair, since only families who are applying for FA are likely to file the Profile.</p>

13

<p>DeanJ, as a parent I really resent having to pay that fee. In addition to the $18 per college, the College Board charges an additional fee if you request the Profile at a later time --I think its $5 -- my daughter was applying EA to one college, and then later (after the EA deferral) decided to add more colleges to her list, at $23 each. </p>

<p>I felt that we had no choice, since the Profile is needed for financial aid -- but I do feel that the College Board fee practices take advantage of needy families. I mean, what else are we going to do? </p>

<p>I have no problem with filling out a college's supplemental form - so I think you should stick with that. The CSS Profile is also very confusing -- there are a lot of places where I am not sure of exactly what is wanted, or wished that I had space to explain -- and there is no way to amend it or correct mistakes once submitted. So we parents end up needing to contact each college directly if there are any changes in any case.</p>

14

<p>Out of curiosity, I just looked up some</a> of the fees the CB charges. Some of the prices have jumped quite a bit from the last time I checked.</p>

<p>$31.50 for the SAT
$18 for each SAT II sitting (+ $8 per subject or + $19 for a FR w/ listening)
$9.50 for additional SAT score reports</p>

<p>$83 for each AP exam ($53 for low income families)
$7 if the exam taken requires a booklet (I think our bookstore sells those for 50 cents)
$15 for each AP score report after the first</p>

<p>I think a few states now cover the cost of the AP exam, but I think the majority of students are paying the fees.</p>

<p>International students pay surcharges that can double the cost of some of these exams.</p>

15

<p>I just saw that one has to send an official SAT scores to college. Is it true? Is it okay to send a copy of the SAT1 and SAT II scores? Does one has to pay to College Board for official copy and is it necessary?</p>

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<p>It depends on the school, hellousdad. Some require an official ETS score report and others will report self reported or high school reported scores.</p>

<p>It's best to check each school's application instructions for their requirements.</p>

17

<p>this may sould nitpicky
but my daughter only applied to 5 schools and the main reason was, she couldn't afford to apply to anymore , what with the application fees of $40+ for each school. She only applied to one school that took the PROFILE, but considering she had to reapply for PROFILE every year, they got more of our money than I would have liked anyway.</p>

<p>( she also didn't take any AP classes or tests- although she did take the SAT twice & took two SAT II tests)
I am shocked- frankly to hear the AP tests are so expensive.
My D2 is currently taking an AP class, and the test is required at end of class.
She isn't interested in taking it for credit in college- she is taking it because the other class was boring and slow to her.
Last year she also took an AP class, but the test wasn't required and it was OK with her teacher if she didn't take it. However now the district has changed the policy and everyone has to take the test if they take the class.</p>

<p>We aren't "low income", we make a more than average national salary, but still- $83 could buy us groceries for a week.- and hell- if we * were* low income, $53, would be a days salary - or more before taxes.</p>

18

<p>I could live with the test fees, but the score report fees are outrageous. In an electronic age, charging a dollar for each score report would still be profitable for the CB. They've got the market cornered though so they can charge what they please.</p>

19

<p>I totally agree with CalMom. With two kids applying to schools, it cost us a fortune for tests, having scores sent, and Profile fees. Needless to say, it really stings when you pay for the Profile and your child isn't even admitted to the school!</p>

20

<p>Dean J - I'm not sure the College Board has many friends, and yes the application and test and reporting and PROFILE costs do add up. How families view that small extortion probably depends on economic circumstances. For our family it was simply "a cost of doing business." </p>

<p>PS, As long as you're on the topic of dubious pricing, have you priced an Organic Chemistry text recently?</p>