<p>D has been admitted into or considering BS Arch program in several universities (UMich, UIUC, UCincin, WUSTL, etc). She'll come in with 7 AP courses (likely to be all 5's) and Calc III & IV from UMich - all of which equates to about 40-45 credits at most semester-based universities.</p>
<p>For the following discussion, I'd use the terms double major and dual degree synonymously, i.e. I don't want the discussion to digress into the finer differences between double major and dual degree.</p>
<p>D really wants to take advantage of the credits she already earned, by doing a double major (e.g. Civil Engg) along with BS Arch. With all the course structure and load for BS Arch programs, is it feasible to still graduate in 4 years?</p>
<p>I posted the same question in UCincin threads with meager response. I find that most folks do not attempt to answer double major questions for a brilliant student (4.0 UW GPA incl 7 AP courses (all 5's), 2350 SAT, 36 ACT, several 800 SATII's and several ECs and leadership positions) and I wonder why.</p>
<p>The six-year B.S.A.E/M.Arch. program leads to the B.S. degree in Architectural Engineering and the professional Master of Architecture. The program is open to exceptional students who follow a specific curriculum and are admitted to the graduate program at the end of their junior year. Upon completion of this program, graduates are eligible for professional registration as both an engineer and an architect.</p>
<p>I would imagine her AP credit might lesson some of the load of this seemingly intense program.</p>
<p>The probable reason you are not getting a lot of responses to the question is that most people just don’t see the point of a dual degree. There are no architecture/engineering positions that I know of; you work in one field or the other. If it is just about proving that she is bright enough to do both, then yes, it is possible. </p>
<p>However be aware that architectural studios will require all of her concentration, and she would be better off being outstanding in our major rather than just good in both. Just because your daughter is brilliant do not think that studio will be necessarily easier for her. Over the years I have seen a lot of architects as classmates, peers, and employees and have tried to understand what particular skills go into making an outstanding designer, and I have seen very little correlation with what are considered traditional signs of brilliance in high school. Design is a different sort of intelligence, and it may or may not correspond to other forms of intelligence. I would give her a chance to find out if she can be outstanding in this field without the added burden of a dual degree.</p>
<p>rick12 - thank you for your insights, though it could do without the occasional swipe.</p>
<p>Anyway, how would one know if they have what it takes to become an outstanding designer? Are there any tell-tale signs? Would the fact that D is on the fence between Arch and Engg itself be an indication that she’s not the artsy Arch type?</p>
<p>If it’s any concession, if your D decides to go for the Arch path, she’ll most likely take at least 2 Structures courses (statics, dynamics, Euler buckling &c., perhaps even fluids if studio doesn’t consume her life)</p>
<p>And rick, would you say that the closest one could come to combining arch and engineering is if you were to do design/build work?</p>
<p>Karkri, sorry for the swipe, as I re-read it I can see where I should have worded it differently. </p>
<p>As far as becoming an outstanding designer, the best predictor you will get would be a real passion and talent for art. Some people don’t develop it until they get to architecture school, but it would be a good sign if she has already shown it in high school. Also good is a mindset where she enjoys working on independent projects and likes to stay up late at night to complete them. Being very bright is in no way a hindrance to becoming a very good designer, it’s just not as strong a correlation as it is in some other fields.</p>
<p>BTW my daughter is probably similar to yours. She is now a junior in product design at Stanford, and is thinking about going to graduate school in architecture. She is a talented artist and passionate about design, but I don’t think I can really judge her design potential until she gets into an architectural studio and starts producing work. It would be very painful for both of us if she had no talent.</p>
<p>so_ein, sorry I did not see your message before my previous answer. I think a small design build firm that focuses on residential and small commercial would allow you to take advantage of both majors. You could do it all. However once you got to larger scale buildings you would again begin to see specialization even in a design build firm.</p>
<p>Thought I jump in with my 2 cents… I think karkri says her daughter is admitted into BS. Arch program. That is not the same as B.Arch. I don’t think they do studio in a BS Arch studies degree.</p>
<p>Just for your reference, my daughter had 7APs going into B.Arch program, she is a freshman now and she had to dropped her honors elective class after the first 2 weeks at school. She ended up with a total of 16 units load - all architecture classes, 6 unit in studio. She has no time to sleep, ave. 2 hours per day. She takes nap on the bench in studio. BTW, most of the credits they give you in AP ususally only counts as electives. Some school max out - e.g. even though she has 7 APs all 4, she only got a max of 30 credits, so some of the APs are useless. Don’t assume just because you have the AP class, you can avoid the university’s requirement, they are all different.</p>
<p>I personally don’t think anyone can sanely take on double majors if you are going into a 5 years B. Arch degree. It is really intense.</p>
<p>One way to see if she has the talent is to attend one of the summer archtecture exploration program. Some are better than the other but the professor should be able to tell you if you have it or not. That’s how mine made her decision.</p>
<p>Karkri - maybe she can just pick a school she likes and decide after the first year if she wants to do structural or design. The schools you listed don’t offer the 5 year B.Arch degree anyway, so if she wants to be a licensed architect, she will have to get an M.Arch</p>
<p>Golflover, I think the idea of a summer studio is a good one. It may not really determine if she has it, but it will sure help determine if she is going to want it. One correction, BS arch programs definitely have studio. The only difference in most schools is that you will have three years of studio instead of five. There are many programs where you go through four years of studio and then get a BS in arch, then re-apply for the 5th year to get your BArch. In certain liberal arts colleges you might only do two years of studio, but then you would have to do a 3 year MArch program.</p>
<p>Rick, if a student gets a BA/BS undergrad in arch studies with 2 years of studio, why would they be required to do a 3 year M.Arch. I thought the 3 year M.Arch was for people with no studio experience and an unrelated major ie a psychology major.</p>
<p>A few schools require you to have more than just studio experience under your belt to qualify for advanced placement for m.arch; they may want to see at least 1 year of structures, 1 year of material studies, 1 year of theory. AP (at least at the top schools) is somewhat competitive, but even if you’re able to place out of, say, ‘Intro to Arch Theory’ it’s still a plus.</p>
<p>Yes, all the schools I mentioned are BS (Arch) programs and not B.Arch. The only B.Arch school D applied and got into is Notre Dame (where actually they admit to the college not to any specific major, so she could choose to do B.Arch if she wanted). </p>
<p>The indecision between arch & engg is what’s preventing her to go outright to B.Arch. The idea is to do a BS (Arch) with a liberal arts grounding, where, by taking full advantage of the credits she already has, she could double major in engg. This will also provide her a way out if she finds out she’s not cut out for architecture.</p>
<p>BTW, she did attend the 2 week Arch camp at Notre Dame.</p>
<p>karkri, my son is at UCincinnati’s Architecture Program, a BS Arch program with 4 yrs of studio. Based on my son’s experience and my conversations with his classmates (including those who brought AP credits with them), I can’t imagine anyone in the UC program having the time or energy to double major and still be able to have any time for extra curriculars or do anything but architecture. Most quarters during the 1st 2 yrs of the program at UC, there was no time for my son to take any but the required courses. But your D can always ask the program faculty about if it’s possible now to double major… karkri, my son thinks UC has a great program & has no regrets in choosing to enroll there rather than other BArch and BS Arch programs. Best of luck to your daughter.</p>