Feedback on Kenyon vs Williams

College Search & Selection
1

These are the 2 schools that have accepted me so far; there are more decisions to come but right now I’m contending with this (admittedly enviable) dilemma.

Kenyon Pros:

  • $$$ they gave me a 20k merit scholarship
  • I get really warm vibes from them (e.g handwritten christmas cards, personalized acceptance letter, gushing students)
  • Easier to access certain opportunities such as trying out for sports teams and getting leadership club positions
  • Professor/student interaction seems legendary and it seems like the environment is very learning for learning's sake
  • I like specific academic programs, specifically their IPHS great books course and flagship english program
  • Seems like such a wonderful and unique culture (Hogwarts architecture, isolation, literary emphasis)

Kenyon Cons:

  • Less prestigious
  • Perhaps not as diverse of a student body
  • Not sure about academic rigor
  • school has less money/resources perhaps

Williams Pros:

  • Prestige, the network opens up a lot of doors
  • I fell in love with Williams as a junior because of tutorial program and Winter Study
  • Lots of funding for research, free music lessons, grad study at Oxbridge, conferences, etc.
  • Relatively diverse and impressive student body
  • Lots of cool traditions (mountain day, storytime, etc.) and alumni seem to love school

Williams Cons:

  • Not sure about the student culture (is it too athletic?)
  • Much more expensive
  • Worried about pre-professional focus in classes

If anyone has any input to help me decide, that would be awesome.

2

What do you plan to study ?

Any career in mind ?

3

First, congratulations!

Second, both schools are amazing, and I don’t think you need to worry too much about “prestige” because both schools are very well-regarded by those who will need to know (grad schools, etc.) and relatively unknown by random people you meet on the street.

I will comment only about Williams, since I am the parent of a current student there but have no direct connection to Kenyon. I will try to answer your questions as best as I can.

Pre-professional focus in classes: The qualifier “in classes” is interesting. Being a liberal arts college, its classes are not pre-professional at all (except if you take certain one-month-long Winter Study courses offered by alumni in finance, etc., although there are plenty of purely academic Winter Study classes as well. Winter Study is different.). Take a look at the course catalog online. As far as overall atmosphere- it is a pretty intellectually oriented place, with lots of great discussions going on not only in class but in dorms and dining halls. That said, there certainly are a lot of ambitious students looking into internships starting with the first summer after freshman year.

Athletes: There are many varsity athletes, but they do not dominate the culture. To some extent, there is a divide. For example, in one entry I know, there are 38 freshmen, 9 of them are varsity athletes, and of those 9, 5 are usually active in the entry’s social events, but 4 are not; the 4 who are not are all male helmet-sport athletes, who were so busy with their teams that they participated in very few entry events at the start of the year, and therefore tended to form their main friendships outside the entry more than in it. The freshmen who were most active in organizing most of the entry’s informal gatherings at the start of the year were not athletes. The kids support one another, going to one another’s athletic matches, dance performances, concerts, and shows. There are lots of kids with lots of different interests, and a lot of different activities happening on campus. So, on the plus side, there is not the dominating “athletic” culture you fear. On the minus side, there is somewhat of a division.

Diversity: It is great. Kids from different races and socioeconomic backgrounds and family backgrounds and interests really, truly interact and become friends.

Leadership and professors : you will have similar opportunities to assume leadership of clubs at Williams (some freshmen are already in big leadership roles) and to interact with professors (class, office hours, dinners, events around campus, research).

Traditions, alumni connections, tutorials, Winter Study, endless resources, “impressive” peers— Yes, you are right, these are awesome. And do not forget the numerous clubs, the freshmen entry system, and the Ephventures programs, which make it so easy to form friendships right away!

Cost: You have a great merit scholarship at Kenyon!

Good luck in your decision. Two great options!

4

Appears, from a prior thread, that OP plans to study Comparative Literature, is upper middle class, Asian male & earned a 1470 on the SAT. Class President & varsity tennis player.

Based on OP’s username, his preference seems clear.

Is the $80,000 cost difference over 4 years significant to OP ?

Both schools have small enrollments (2,050 at Williams & about 1,660 at Kenyon).

Certainly Williams College offers better career placement.

FWIW: My impression is that Williams College is arguably the best LAC in the country with a gorgeous location & diverse student body & incredible job/career placement. Strong athletic program.

Kenyon College has a gorgeous campus, beautiful buildings, cozy atmosphere & great English programs, but less prestigious & job placement is not in the same league as Williams College. But, $80,000 allows one to get a one year master’s degree at any college or university in the country or abroad (Cambridge, for example).

5

@TheGreyKing: Thanks for letting me know more about the environment at Williams! It sounds like programs such as the entry system coupled with many traditions give the school a strong sense of community. Just to clarify what I meant by “pre-professional focus in classes,” I was speaking of students’ mindsets (i.e are biology students really excited about the science or are the mostly pre-meds? Are the economics courses dominated by aspiring bankers or by the theoretically minded?). It sounds like the culture is pretty intellectual but also social. This definitely appeals to me!

@Publisher: Thanks for responding! To answer your question, for me the 80,000 dollar difference is very significant but not necessarily a deal-breaker.

As for my background/interests, I’m kind of scattered at this point. I put down comparative literature as my intended major because spending four years learning foreign languages and reading literature from different cultures sounds wonderful. I’ve always loved folklore/mythology in particular.

That being said, my interests at this point are ridiculously scattered. I enjoy reading/writing but I’m also really curious about the sciences and have loved biology/physics in high school. Career wise I honestly have no idea where I’ll end up: I could equally imagine myself as a literary scholar or scientist or politician or businessman. Really anything besides medicine tbh!

I also saw that you took note of my username. I hope it doesn’t come across as too obnoxious (: I made it, in part, in jest because of the ridiculous name-brand obsession on this forum.

I guess, in the end, I’m still conflicted. Williams seems to have so many unique programs. The prospects of doing cool winter study projects (e.g internship in Georgia) and participating in rigorous tutorials seems tantalizing. Williams just seems so rich, in more than one way.

At the same time, it’s still a little hard for me to dismiss Kenyon. Throughout the whole process, they’ve blown me away by sending me lengthy notes and I loved how the acceptance letter was highly personalized. It seems like it’s a question of affordability/intimacy vs. prestige/resources/tradition. My priority is to feel part of a tight-knit community but it seems like both schools offer that.

Ahhhh! I guess I’ll just need to figure this out over the next few weeks. Thanks so much for responding to my post!

6

Placement into business positions is very good at Williams. My sister’s child studied history at Williams and able to get many job offers in management consulting. She found the area very isolating and pretty hard to get to, you have to fly to Albany NY and bus over. She is not an athlete but she found her place at Williams over time. She tried to transfer out after freshman year, though, but decided to stick it out and now happy she did stay at Williams. . She was able to study in Italy over one Winter and take a semester in France which helped with the isolation.

She thought the history department at Williams was considerably better than the English department.

Kenyon is very isolated as well, so they are similar for that aspect of small town location far from a city.

If money is no object, Williams seems to be the better connected place, if you want a job at the end. If you have a clear goal of going to earn a PhD, or law or business school, Williams also may give you an edge in those admissions processes.

Williams is stronger than Kenyon in physics, math, and chemistry, if there is any chance you would change to a science or math major. Williams offers one of the best math REUs in the USA over the summer, open to other math students, but Williams students can enroll in that.

7

@ Coloradomama, hmm interesting. Sounds like there’s no contest in terms of the network.

Just out of curiosity, do you know why your niece thought the history department at Williams was better than the English department? Did she not have a great experience in English classes?

8

You can have a successful career out of either (my brother attended Kenyon and then a top Ivy Law School). That said, IMO, no college (including HYPS) in the US offers a better liberal arts educational experience and broader set of opportunities than Williams (I say this as a non-Williams SAW undergrad and Harvard grad). The only downside, for those who prefer a more urban setting, is its very rural location. But then again, Kenyon is also rural.

9

Kenyon also has free music lessons. Just FYI.

10

OP,

Both schools are prestigious, so that’s a wash in my opinion. Yes, Williams’ alumni network is nothing to scoff at, but it’s not as if you are planning to attend Belly Button Lint College instead. In fact, Kenyon is a “hot” school right now. As recently as the early 2000s, its acceptance rate was over 60%. It has plummeted since then.

The real issue, as another poster mentioned, is if Kenyon is worth significantly more money. I’d say no. Plus, keep in mind that the average person has never heard of Keynon or Williams. The average person has never heard of Carleton or Grinnell. True, people who matter will probably know, but when one chooses a LAC (I’m an LAC grad and fanboy), one is doing so because she/he is drawn to that environment, instant name recognition be darned.

It sounds like you prefer Kenyon but are lured by the Williams name, and your overall sense of both places is generally accurate. You’ll be fine at Kenyon. In fact, you’ll be better than fine. Do you realize how many students would love to trade places with you and head to Gambier? Please don’t take this the wrong way, but if your dilemma is deciding between Kenyon and Williams, you really have no dilemma at all.

11

Just a note, don’t be swayed by warm fuzzies from admissions. You will probably never interact with this e people again on campus, so I’d take it off your list of things affecting your decision.

12

We just toured Williams as a junior, the location is rural, but not as bad as we had imagined. From Albany to Williamstown is a beautiful 45 minutes car ride.

What concerns me more, is the brutal, long winter. Our tour day was a 28F cloudy with snow flurry, the excellent tour guide, a senior, dressed only in a long-sleeved shirt, while everyone of us was coated up with hats and scarfs. So maybe you could get a great LAC education as well as a strong physique from Williams. :slight_smile:

13

Keep in mind, you have to fly to Albany and there are few direct flights from most states and then BUS over, as Williams College students do not keep a car in Albany, NY. So its a long haul, as how many of us have direct flights to the small Albany, NY airport? Also note that the Albany airport shuts down a lot in the winter, for snow and weather.

Kenyon may be an easier commute from home, depending on where you live.

14

There is one flight per day from most bigger airports to Albany NY. Miss that flight, then wait an entire day
to get there. At least there are more direct flights now, but not really that many compared to a large airport.
http://albanyairport.com/flights/arrivals-departures

15

With respect to Kenyon, I think you’ve keyed in on its strengths, but a few might benefit from reinforcement:

Whether these courses are taken selectively or with the entire program, they offer among the strongest foundational academics in the country.

and

Yes.

Kenyon’s Gothic buildings balanced along Middle Path create a quintessentially collegiate campus appearance.

16

@HYPaspirant, My son looked seriously at Kenyon. We spent a lovely weekend on campus and had he attended I’m sure he would have had an excellent experience. Ultimately he applied ED to Williams, was admitted and had a wonderful four years there.

Williams and Kenyon have a lot of overlap in the personality, environment and prevailing culture. Academically I would consider them equals, though you might quibble over the strengths of individual disciplines. $20K a year is a substantial amount of spending money, for summer travel and unpaid internships and graduate study, so I would take that offer very seriously.

Both would be considered rural schools, though Williamstown, while really more of a mountain village than a town, has a handful of restaurants, shops and services walkable from campus. Gambier is far more limited.

Williams students also take advantage of the relative proximity of Boston (about 2.5 hours) for day trips and generally get to New York once or twice a term. The Berkshires themselves are a highly sophisticated get-away destination from Boston and New York with world class museums (including the Clark and MassMoCA on or near Williams campus) and summer performing arts venues (e.g. the Williamstown Theater Festival, Shakespeare in Lenox, Jacobs Pillow for dance and Tanglewood for music).

Both schools have an element of active, outdoorsy sports culture. For my son this was a plus as he took full advantage of opportunities to hike, climb, snow board and generally appreciate the profound natural beauty of the surroundings.

About 25% of Kenyon students are in fraternities. I’ll leave it to Kenyon students/parents to describe how this impacts the social dynamic (or doesn’t) but for my son Williams first year entry system was an ideal arrangement.

I’m a bit puzzled over the comment about the weakness of Williams English department as this is one of the largest and best funded disciplines at Williams, with a powerful line up of professors – thinkers, critics and writers. My son didn’t major in English, but did take 4 or 5 classes in the department and all were superb.

“Pre-professional” is a somewhat vague term. If you mean will you get internships, jobs and graduate school acceptances? Yes, for both schools. If you mean do careers at Wall Street and consulting firms dominate Williams culture? Absolutely not. Ten years out, my son and all of his Williams friends have attended top graduate programs and are well on their way to established careers. The careers are as varied as the student body: development economics, architecture, city planning, law, education, medicine, community activism.

The outcome of Ivy League admissions may make this conversation irrelevant. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

17

I like Kenyon a lot (I think it has the most quintessential campus imaginable, and English is particularly strong). One of my kids got into Kenyon with merit. That said, I think Williams is a cut above academically overall. If cost is a big deal, Kenyon is a fine choice. But otherwise, I’d probably encourage my own kid toward Williams.

18

Family went to Williams one loved it one not so much. That being said I would choose it over Kenyon. Williams is at the top of NESCAC schools. Be prepared for vast rides through mountains and rural isolation to get to campus, and one road spring street on campus. Literally one street. LOL. The beautiful art museum and summer stock theater make up for it and the Berkshires are beautiful. Choose Williams…

19

What a wonderful decision to have to make! We don’t know Williams except for visiting many years ago as adults touring around the Berkshires and, of course, by reputation. We did visit Kenyon about 4-5 times during 2 kids’ college process, as it was the first school both my kids visited with multiple later visits, and we know several recent grads and current students. If the $20k a year difference is not an obstacle (and it would be for many), some things to consider and determine whether they push you one way or the other:

Kenyon is #8 of the schools (universities and LACs) which have the least economic diversity according to the NY Times study https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html – 19.8% Kenyon students are from the top 1% economically and 12.2% are from the bottom 60% (families earning less than $65k). Williams is 44 on that list, still a high percentage of 1% – 18.1% – but higher percentage of bottom 60% – at 19.6%.

Kenyon has about 25-30% participation in Greek life. It is non-residential, though we were told that parts of dorms are held for specific chapters so members can live together. Sports can still be a pretty big deal at Kenyon as Men’s Soccer has been a top 10 team for several years and Men’s Swimming and Diving has a string of national championships.

It is lovely to be wanted, especially after the stress of the application process, and the merit from Kenyon says they want you to attend. Otherwise, I recommend disregarding the “warm fuzzies” from Kenyon Admissions.

1 Like
20

Regarding your statement in post #4 above “ridiculous name-brand obsession” : Folks are obsessed with elite colleges & universities for a very good reason = opportunities.

One would be foolish to turn down an opportunity to matriculate at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford & a handful of others without a very compelling reason as the real world opportunities for graduates of these universities tend to be outstanding.