Judges and litigators work off the same laws and precedents, though some is still open to interpretation.
Admissisons folks have seen the pool of candidates over the years and know the high schools/what they produce, and what the college wants to find, what matters vs what’s not necesarily on track.
It even bugs me some of the notable names in the business, those who did have admissions experience, are so far away from those days. They may have an occasional meeting with someone at a college, but aren’t up on the actual pool.
“Using the example cited earlier, I know where my kid was admitted and I have some good guesses as to why, but those are only guesses. He could have been admitted for reasons that I’m completely unaware of. Similarly, there are other kids who I have known who have been rejected by various colleges and I have what I believe to be a good guess as to why, but it could have been other things entirely. There is no good way to gain extensive experience in the college admissions process without either having worked inside such an office in some capacity or otherwise seeing the deliberations and results of thousands of apps”
Totally disagree. Outside college counselors that do the credential (for example at UCLA) or schooling (and then decide to be a private college counselor) don’t know either or have the inside knowledge as to why one is accepted or not. It isn’t just parents who may not really know why, many hs counselors don’t sometimes know why a kid at their hs is accepted and rejected. They don’t get feedback from most selective and other colleges on every kid. The idea of a counselor is to have knowledge of not only the process (application, putting it all together, essay topics, recs, sending test scores, which scores to send, which SAT2 or AP to take, etc), but leading a kid throughout their high school years in selection of classes, interests, possible summer ideas, testing strategies, etc. There is a wealth of information out on this if one wants to read, research and then look at what they learned from their kids going thru the process. In some cases, I feel like when I help friends, I know more and share more things I have learned from actually going through the process, than their counselor shares with them.
But, back to acceptance/rejections, many college counselors would never have this inside knowledge and even if they did, they still could not predict. One can try to predict based on freshman profiles, CDS, naviance scattergrams and information from specific hs, but again, predicting is somewhat a luck factor these days, based on the sheer amount of applications.
“I’ve actually had more than one person suggest I should go into college counseling but the truth is, I know my lane. I think I’d be great at helping kids find appropriate schools but much less good at helping them get in”
I think at the end of the day, the kid gets themselves in. I think the private counselor can put finishing touches on an application/essays, and of course, provide guidance on appropriate schools to apply. But really it is the child - their grades, ECs, essays that they write, and then teacher recs that get the child in. While the counselors can guide with classes, the kid is ultimately responsible for their grades, test scores, which ECs they do and of course, who they ask for recs. I do agree that Private counselors help pull this together, but I do think it is the child.
Everybody can decide for themselves what they feel is valuable and worth paying for. As I said, I personally would not value or hire a counselor who didn’t have firsthand experience with the admissions process because as far as I’m concerned that is the only piece of expertise that is not readily available. That wealth of public information you refer to is something I - and my kids - are perfectly capable of reading and comprehending without handholding. The insider knowledge of the system and expertise is worth paying for. Someone who reads the same public information I can read? Not so much.
If you’re a person who values or needs handholding regarding publicly available information - that’s your choice to spend on that. Not something I would spend on or value, though.
Of course, the other thing nobody has mentioned here is how a good CC also navigates the often treacherous waters between what a kid wants and what the parents want. That in and of itself is an art form!
As a lay person, I have definitely been helpful to several kids in helping them build a list of schools. But that’s the fun part…
WOW lots of good opinions. As far as why people hire counselors I think we are leaving out that many people hire counselors because they simply do not have the time or do not wish to spend the time to do it themselves. Yes a lot of this information is publicly available but I personally have logged countless hours figuring it all out. Most people I know would not for various reason spend the learning curve time I have. All I can say is for me it was all worth it. Each of my boys developed new found trust in me going through this process with them and especially at a time when they are getting ready to live on their own for the first time that is a beautiful thing. I know other people have had terrible times with their children during this process and someone to step in between them was often needed and most decidedly wanted. A moment of great parent pride for me was when I had my first tough spot with my youngest over test prep. I started my standard lecture of “fine do whatever you want. I am not going to college you are. If you choose not to study and limit your options that is your choice but I would not do that if it were me…” Anyway he came down the next morning and said, “Ok I will do it. You are right.” Then he said Jack (my middle son, his older brother) said this would happen. He told me before he left for college, “Mom is going to drive you crazy going. She is going to make you do way more studying than you want and she is going to make you re-write things over and over and you will fight. BUT listen to everything she says because she knows so much about all this stuff and she is right!”
@washugrad I so get that advice on everything part. I am a total research queen and get completely obsessed with whatever is going on for the while. I bet you would be super helpful to more people than you think. Whenever I talk to a parent who is just starting this process with child number one I get amazed at how much they do not know!
@lookingforward you make some really good points that I agree with. Yes I know more than my kids schools and I agree that many counselors are out of the loop as to what the pools are everywhere. I have more than once told my children’s counselors certain things about schools they are looking at. @LvMyKids2 I agree with you on so many points but this, “In some cases, I feel like when I help friends, I know more and share more things I have learned from actually going through the process, than their counselor shares with them.” I can totally relate to! Lastly @Publisher I totally agree that Experience combined with hard work and passion can trump all!!
The counselor I hired for my kid had a group of ex-adcoms behind the scene giving feedback of my kid’s “chance” and application. He had a good business model and I actually thought about going into business with him, but I don’t think I would do it by myself, even after many years on CC. That being said, I volunteered to help underprivileged students with college process in my city. We will go through training in few weeks before we are assigned students to work with. I may come to CC for some help.
I’ve been told I should explore as a career but looking to retire not start a new career. My experience is very narrow.
However, our HS GC and I are aquaintences, she reached out and asked if I’d review her son’s application who is applying to UCs this round. So go figure.
Loved the article. I’m looking into volunteering with a local program for at risk students working towards college admissions.
It’s funny - my husband and I had this talk last night! My husband is a teacher and does a lot of tutoring on the side. Our friends are dropping the range of $3000 for an SAT tutor this summer. His partner is in the financial end of things and helps parents plan on that end, then recommends this guy for the test prep. We said in retirement he can tutor and I can college counsel - I love researching this stuff.
In reality, when I retire I really doubt I’ll be living somewhere where people will drop $3k for test prep…
Many can probably volunteer for their own alma maters, interviewing or doing college fairs. (Or even meet the person repping yours at a local event.) You’d get an idea what matters to your college to project, what sorts of kids they aim for. It’s a start.
I agree some have a knack for this. But in the end it’s about serving the client in the right ways. And as in any sales job, you’re selling him on a product, the value of your services, which rests on his satisfaction, in the end. Not ours.
I help the occasional CC kid. But I have the leisure to choose which. If the lightbulb is going on over their heads, it’s more fulfilling, on both sides. Now imagine you do this for some money and either need more clients or can’t turn away one who turns out to be tough.
I don’t think that college counseling would ever be for me, but spending time on CC has made me consider the idea of becoming involved in admissoons in some way. Probably not any time soon, but it’s a nice “plan b” for me.
Love that the article is about “pushy moms” as volunteers.
A lot of kids don’t have a “pushy mom” in their corner to guide them in the right direction when needed and help navigate the waters.
I wouldn’t be a college counselor but I’m the “research queen” too in my family. And it’s time consuming for sure. And I think it’s a skill required for anyone interested in the job.
I’ve enjoyed helping my two oldest with the college search and admissions process. I may even have it down by the time kiddo #3 has to go through it. But I’m not sure I’d be good at helping other people’s children with the process. (Kinda like how I had fun with my kids when they were growing up, but never would have worked in a day care taking care of other people’s children.)
I do have a story about how this can go wrong. An online friend from a schooling related group had successfully helped her children get into colleges and get good scholarships. She decided she wanted to give it a go as a counselor and offered to help my daughter for free to help build up her resume. We didn’t get very far. My daughter’s activities and interests didn’t match what her children had done. She told us that everything my daughter was doing was wrong. She painted a very bleak picture unless there were some drastic changes. We stopped talking. In hindsight, it may have actually helped, as I secretly hoped to prove her wrong, Kiddo #1 got into two top 10 schools and got more merit aid than we ever expected (to the school she currently attends).
@My3Kiddos I do think you bring up a really good point. As parents for sure it is easier for us to help other kids who have similar interests as our own.
I have a friend who makes a living as a college counselor. She has no background in admissions or psychology or counseling at all. She has kids come to her house and bakes cookies to help them relax. She makes more then $50k/year and serves as a go between between parent and kid, and even takes young people on tours of campuses.
Some people, including my friend, have urged me to try it but I just don’t want to work for well-off parents (nice as they may be) who can pay so much and who sometimes want unrealistic results.
I really enjoy being on CC- it’s been 10 years now I think- and am especially drawn to kids or parents with kids who are having difficulties, or health lssues, as well as music families. And helping a few each year who are trying to write essays but have no support (often internationals with parents who don’t speak English). I do “non directive” help and never ever mess with a young person’s “voice.”
The nicest thing ever was a young man who grew up in a mud hut in Kenya. He got into Cornell and he wrote me that his “Mother rained down blessings on me.” Don’t get me wrong, I like money, but that may have been better.
Also a lot of you have suggested counseling or helping friends. I had an old friend reach out to me on social media in the spring of her daughter’s junior year. Her daughter was a great student and had some very interesting unique things about her. Anyway my friend was someone I had not seen in 30 years but I ended up speaking to her almost daily during her daughter college process. Of course this was all just friend to friend not for money. I think I helped a lot. Anyway this student is on her way to a full ride at Duke. It was quite the journey for sure.
