Fellowship Point - December CC Book Club Selection

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I loved this, too. And on a related note, the novel depicted older women with accuracy. So much of Agnes and Polly’s experiences of aging rang true to me – partly for myself, but more for the way I remember my own mother (same era as Agnes and Polly). Competent and intelligent women fighting the invisibility and dismissiveness that result from gender and age, as well as the growing frailty of their own bodies.

I remember during one of our CC book discussions (alas, I’ve forgotten the book), we laughed/cried at the depiction of a character who was a woman in her 60s, but written as if she were 102 years old. A misstep by a youthful author. Alice Elliott Dark is a different case entirely. She’s a mature woman and I’m certain she drew from her own experience. Her photo…She could be Agnes.

There were many issues she wanted to address, too. Chief among these was her mission to put old women, whom people “write off” in our culture, front and center — “old women who are still active and still very much in their lives and growing and changing,” she says.

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I see in the article above that Dark was raised in Philadelphia and summered in Maine, so she wrote about what she knew.

What a strange coincidence because it’s such an unusual name! It would be amusing to think it’s Dark’s nod to another “elderly” dynamo – from Wikipedia, “Miss Silver is the real deal – a professional investigator and stand-up woman, a true forerunner of all future female private eyes,” whose “spinsterish appearance is inconsistent with her sensational behavior and also with the far-fetched plots of the novels she features in.”

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I really wasn’t sure I was going to finish this book. I found the first half not just tedious, but full of characters I disliked. I found a lot of the writing clumsy or pretentious and noticed some anachronisms in the language which began to drive me crazy. I cheered when Polly’s insufferable husband died and then was so irritated that I had to put up with another whole chapter of reminiscing about him.

Thankfully at about this point Maud Silver reappears and things get more interesting. I actually ended up enjoying the second half of the book, but rolled my eyes a bit at the melodrama of Heidi being revealed as Nan and the too pat solution to give the land back to the Native Americans. When I tried to describe the plot to my husband (who gave up after a few chapters) it sounded completely ludicrous.

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I actually put the book down at the Heidi/Nan reveal and muttered unpleasant things about Hallmark movie tropes. Ultimately, I came around to it, but I do think there might be alternatives to that particular plot choice.

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I wasn’t sure if it was a nod from Dark at first. But later in the book (Chapter 11), Agnes refers to Maud as Maud Silver, girl detective, and I think that made me feel that it was indeed Dark’s nod to Miss Silver, the detective.

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My sentiments exactly. As I wrote above, I did come around, but I thought at first that perhaps simply having Clemmie enter the picture and become part of Agnes’ life would have been enough to come full circle (in terms of healing). But of course, the story needed the Nan Reed resurrection to deal with the Fellowship agreement.

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@mathmom I found the writing pretentious too. It leaps off the page at times.

At an earlier point in the book Dark writes about Agnes eating an unripe plum saying something about William Carlos Williams’ liking for plums with no other explanation. I put it down to my complete ignorance of modern poetry but the likelihood is that not many people know that he wrote a poem about plums. I may be wrong about that, of course, and perhaps it is a poem/poet that is well known.

Regarding Heidi=Nan, I never saw it coming. My jaw just about hit the ground when that was revealed.

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The letters to Elspeth were pretentious – who writes like that? – but I just chalked it up to the character as she had been revealed to us. Agnes writes like that.

I recognized the William Carlos Williams’ poem; it gave me a smile. Dark sprinkled many literary and poetic references throughout the book, everything from William Carlos Williams to Maud Silver to Heidi.

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Bunch of literary nerds in my family - we quote that poem all the time!

The quote that intrigued me was “Didn’t someone say that the pram in the hallway is the enemy of art?” Agnes thinks this while snooping around Virgil’s cottage. I thought it might be from A Room of One’s Own, (which I’ve never read), but no, it’s from one of those British characters who go around saying witty things, spending more than they can afford, mooching off friends and having off and on literary employment. The exact quote from Cyril Connelly is, " There is no more sombre enemy of good art than the pram in the hall." (Enemies of Promise (1938) ch. 14)

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Didn’t recognize the plum reference, but just listened to this “longish” interview with Alice Dark, and learned she was a poet for many years before attempting fiction, hence the “ plum poem” nod,

Also, she said in this interview the book was first 1400 pages, then submitted to editor at 800 pages, “Oh, good grief” as Agnes might say.

Agree with everyone it’s bloated at 592 pages.

Move over Olive Kitteridge, there’s a new sometimes lovable, sometimes not, curmudgeon in town.

I loved Agnes, and loved Polly, their relationship is something to remember.
@Mary13 the last lines “ I Loved someone “ ….meaning Polly made me need tissues, salty discharge.

I read the book in September, and just reread the final chapters, the reveal about Heidi.
Can understand those who wanted to throw the book against the wall with this Hallmark twist.

There are weird coincidences in life, I’m waving at you @mary13, so I forgive Alice Dark, this shocking moment.

Too long, too meandering, did I care enough about the land trust and the legacy of fellowship point, not so much. What I liked were the characters, Polly, and of course, Agnes…………memorable.

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I listened to this book on audio (easiest to get at my library). 20 hours, but I found ways to get through it quickly - listened while walking, running, yardwork. Finished it Thanksgiving night, anxious to hear the ending (which I don’t totally understand in terms of who still had land/houses).

After tons of coincidences with streaming shows (detectives and pathologists involved personally in so many crimes), the Nan surprise didn’t bother me too much. There was good reason for Heidi (and hence her daughter) to be so drawn to the Nan books and author.

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It was cute but maybe borderline too much that the little girl (Nan), who is the inspiration for the dauntless heroine of a children’s book, is renamed Heidi after another dauntless heroine of a children’s book. The real Nan steals curmudgeonly Agnes’ heart; the fictional Heidi steals curmudgeonly Grandfather’s heart, etc. Also, Robert is very much the stalwart, gentle, and slightly older Peter, who keeps a loving eye on our little girl.

But…my point in starting this post was to say that Heidi may have had a happy enough childhood–the depressive episodes didn’t start until she was an adult–but what was her aunt thinking to change her name? Too cruel. Nan had already been robbed of both parents and her home – and then her very name as well? It’s not like she was an infant; she was at least four years old. That said, I suppose I can’t fault the aunt too much – the fault lies with the author because it was clearly a plot device. Without the name change, there would never have been the big reveal of Heidi’s true identity.

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If she submitted it to her editor at 800 pages and the final product was 592, that’s a pretty good editor. I thought the book was slow-moving, but not bloated. I know that’s a fine line. But there was never a section that I found to be drudgery; it was just that the book required more concentration (and sometimes research) than many fast-reads I’ve enjoyed in recent months. It was worth it, in my opinion. From the article posted earlier:

At 592 pages, Fellowship Point is an ambitious work. Dark found inspiration in the “big, sprawling, intricately plotted novels” of the 19th century, such as George Eliot’s Middlemarch and Trollope’s oeuvre. “I wanted to learn how to do plots and sub-plots and turns and reveals,” she says. “It was a big challenge and seemed very fun. It drew me in.”

As for the original 1400 pages, Dark says in the Acknowledgments that one chapter that did not end up in the book was printed as a short story called “A Private River” in Ploughshares. The story is from Dick’s perspective (I don’t think we ever got that in the novel, did we?) I don’t have a subscription, but these few opening paragraphs don’t really redeem Dick: Project MUSE - A Private River

It’s hard to know why Polly was so devoted to him, but as she said herself, “Marriage was the weirdest thing that people did” (p. 524).

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I just finished! Overall, I liked the book. Still, there were many times while reading that I wasn’t sure I was going to like it. I also did not realize ahead of time that Heidi was Nan.

Marks is an illustrative writer. Her words paint the scenery for her story. I could see the places she was talking about. I’m very familiar with Maine so that also helped me envision Fellowship Point.

The book was definitely longer than it needed to be. The chapter on Dick went on way too long. He was unlikable and I didn’t feel the abundance of information we got on him was crucial to the story. His name was perfect though. He was a dick. I also wasn’t crazy about Robert’s prison storyline. It seemed forced. I did like the letter writing between Polly and Robert in that part of the story. The letters allowed us to get to know Polly and Robert better. I loved Agnes’s character and Maude’s character. They were my two favorites.

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Maybe that’s why the “A Private River” chapter got sliced out. A little Dick goes a long way. :joy:

The author had fun with the names. Robert Circumstance – that’s what he was a victim of, circumstantial evidence.

Hamm Loose sounds just like what he was – a beefy man with questionable morals.

Polly means “star of the sea.” Plus, she was definitely a Pollyanna (“a person characterized by irrepressible optimism and a tendency to find good in everything”).

And St. Agnes - “Virgin and Patron Saint of Girls” who refused to marry, despite pressure from her wealthy parents. (The plural “Girls” makes sense here – Agnes not only took Nan under her wing, but also Karen [to her eventual regret], and the native girl Mary Mitchell.)

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I wonder how much of a part Agnes plays in Nan’s buried memories. As she takes Nan from the house where her father Virgil and Karen have died, Agnes coaxes Nan that she dreamed everything.

“He’s asleep” … “and so are you. We are in a dream.” …

She looked at me quizzically. I picked her up and left the cabin. “You are sleeping peacefully, aren’t you? And having a beautiful dream of snow.” …

Nan could be coaxed to forget.

Anyway, it doesn’t work that way and obviously didn’t.

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I liked the book by the end but with reservations: a wandering narrative and Nan rising from the dead, figuratively but still … No, I didn’t see it coming and, to be honest, found the Heidi sections odd. At least till it ties into the ending.

On the other hand, certain passages - particularly Polly’s interactions with her children - seemed so on point. My sister (age 85) struggles with the need for independence and respect and finds them in short supply (deservedly).

Robert Circumstance - what the heck: I like him but the whole theft tale could have easily been cut.

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The theft tale could have been cut, but I found it odd that Robert was accused one day and in prison the next. Or so it seemed. So probably there were several scenes that got him to prison that were cut.

I loved the characters, loved the friendship between the two women. I cried when I realized who she meant with “I loved someone” – women friends are soooooo important but so often we subsume those relationships in order to focus on the relationship with a man that is supposed to be more important. And that’s what Polly did until Dick died.

I thought Dark portrayed Dick really well. Polly truly believed that her role in the marriage – in any marriage – was to pump up her husband, coddle him, take domestic burdens off his plate, so he could be a man of ideas. Sadly, it turned out that he didn’t really have any ideas. It was such a pleasure to see her bloom after his death.

I was annoyed by the Heidi/Nan thing. I thought that was a trick cheap and facile. Not to mention unnecessary. We could have enjoyed Maud without her mother having such depression.

I thought the descriptions of the Philadelphia apartment and the houses in Maine were spot-on. I know people with summer “cottages” where things are a little shabby but the people are really, really rich. (Hence the summer “cottage” to begin with!) There is a type of person who, even though they have millions, are very careful in how they spend it. My best friend in HS is just like that – comes from money, has made a ton of money as well, yet is really tight with it!

One minor annoyance I had was that we wouldn’t hear about a character for pages and pages and pages, then that character would suddenly reappear. During one of Karen’s reappearances, I had trouble remembering who she was.

And what did we think about the whole Virgil-Agnes romance that turned out was nonexistent?

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I’m another with mixed feelings about the book. I got it in early November and started reading. After what seemed like endless reading without much interest, I finally checked to see how close I was to the end. I was only 28% in :hushed:. So I stopped for a while and finally came back, when it became more interesting and easier to read.

It brought to mind a book I read ages ago which was about 1000 pages long and involved the generational lives of some women who lived in a smallish city in Ohio, I think. One married better than the other. I can’t remember the title and am pretty sure I gave it away when we moved because I’d read it twice and knew that was it.

I am another who was so grateful to have Polly’s husband die because he just dragged her down. I just don’t relate to subjecting yourself to a husband and sons.

I finished the book about 10 days ago so don’t remember many details; discussion above brought a lot back. I did think it was beautifully written but started feeling - not judged exactly, but perhaps lacking? - that I didn’t understand a lot of the literary references. It also seemed like I prefer lesser books rather than greater books.

After such a long trip through the book, it seemed to end rather abruptly. Everything got tied up in neat ribbons very quickly. I did not see the Nan reveal and also though it was something of a Hallmark moment, as many of you noted.

But what really annoyed me was after several hundred of pages dedicated to the extreme importance of turning the land over to a land trust to make sure it remained pure in perpetuity…boom, let’s turn it over to the tribal council with members who kill eagles for sacred reasons. Am I the only one who started picturing the Fellowship Point Casino and Resort? :grin:

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So many thoughts about this book.

First, I absolutely won’t ever read a slow book — but I devoured this one. Only one ever.

Second, I grew up in Philly, played in Rittenhouse square as a young child (where Agnes’ apartment overlooks), went to a Friends school for a few years before we moved away, and recognized several other Philadelphia locations that she mentioned – so that was also so much fun for me!

I did expect Heidi to be Nan. Early on, there was a reference that Agnes only had 2 of 3 bracelets she’d originally had – “she wore…two of the three gold bracelets her father had given her when she turned sixteen; she’d given away the third bracelet long ago”. I figured that missing bracelet was foreshadowing and kept an eye out for additional bracelet references. Much later, there was reference to Maud’s bracelet and then later it was revealed that that bracelet (or perhaps a different one) was Heidi’s bracelet (“Maud changed into a clean pair of trousers…and small gold earrings and a locket, both matching well with Heidi’s bracelet”), So, I was “braced” for the reveal – although I didn’t really like it when it came, because like others noted above, it seemed way too Hallmark-y.

I liked all the women, but I think Polly was blinded by her affection (or determined affection as it turns out) for her husband. It was clear to me that Dick never called the humane society about that poor dog, and he was slipping so much at that point that I wanted to shake Polly and say “go look into this yourself. He can’t be trusted!” But I was sad when she found that out herself.

And…I was very moved by the epilogue’s ending and the final testament to Agnes’ and Polly’s deep deep friendship.

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