<p>I put in another vote for Smith. Northampton is a fabulous and fun town.</p>
<p>My nephew went to Carleton and managed to be abroad for two out of the four winters. He wasn’t STEM, though.</p>
<p>SDonCC–Grinnell is an hour from Des Moines, IA, population 206,000, Carleton and St. Olaf are 30 minutes from a metro area of 3,500,000 people–it’s just not the same, sorry :D.</p>
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<p>First of all, the main question in your thread is addressed. Women get all the attention of the professors, all the research opportunities, the best recommendations, etc. They don’t have to shoulder aside self-promoting, pushier male classmates (sorry, I know this is a generalization, and definitely not the case with some male students – but there are enough like that to make it an issue). Second, the campuses are almost all very lovely. I particularly like Mt. Holyoke and Wellesley (we did not visit Smith, so I can’t speak to it). At the campuses we went to, I think the dorms are nicer (less beat up). Third, often the women’s colleges have less of a party atmosphere and more of an academic focus.</p>
<p>And I agree with SteveMA – Carleton is half an hour from a large city. We drove to Grinnell for a visit, and it is really rural. The nearest towns did not seem very exciting, either. Even my D who liked Carleton and Kenyon just thought it felt too rural.</p>
<p>(Re: women’s colleges) And you are pretty much guaranteed to have professors who believe in the abilities of women across all disciplines and probably more than average experience mentoring women. I went to a girl’s high school and there are all sorts of subtle differences as well. Hard to quantify or explain, it’s just difference. There’s a camaraderie that develops that just isn’t the same in co-ed institutions.</p>
<p>Yet another vote for Smith - my D, after refusing to even consider looking at all-women’s colleges while in high school (and believe me, we tried), is now a very happy transfer STEM student at Smith. She discovered Smith completely on her own while exploring transfer options.</p>
<p>She came from another LAC and I think some of the group projects she worked on at her original school, where she ended up doing all the work when paired with boys, might have had something to do with her decision to transfer! :)</p>
<p>The 5-college consortium is a terrific option (she can take classes at 5 different colleges, including co-ed schools like Amherst) and as someone else mentioned, Northampton is a fantastic town in a beautiful area. OP’s daughter would have plenty of access to males, but still would be able to take advantage of all the great things that an all-women’s college has to offer! Smith has, I believe, the only undergrad engineering program in the country geared only towards women.</p>
<p>Smith has so much to offer, particularly for STEM girls.</p>
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<p>As someone who has been in research, it has not been my experience at all that one gender is pushier than another.</p>
<p>Cornell has an excellent program for women in engineering. Great support from day one for female engineers, especially compared to some higher-rated Ivys (P,H).</p>
<p>If not an all-girls school, one that has a ratio closer to 70-30 female-male might be an option as well.</p>
<p>So what does Smith do? Helps women in the sciences think about the intersection of women’s lives and their career paths. Helps them think about themselves and financial independence. Helps them think about how women navigate in male dominated fields. Helps them think about how do dress. Helps them (later) think about how to re-enter the workforce if they’ve taken time off for marriage and family. Engages them in an extremely active and vibrant alumnae network, for jobs, etc. That’s just a start.</p>
<p>Smith spends MONEY on all of these activities, in addition to the superb academics and academic resources, female mentors, and magnificent campus. And it’s all for women.</p>
<p>I think the OP does a disservice to her daughter to make this issue a big deal in narrowing down schools. By all means, check it out before you make the final decision. But I think it’s very rare for it to be an issue in this day and age.</p>
<p>^I never said I was making this a big deal. </p>
<p>Am I concerned? Yes. And disappointed that discrimination exists on college campuses, but I live in the real world. Spygirl does the narrowing, I do the suggesting.</p>
<p>I appreciate all the suggestions and the all-girls schools sound pretty idyllic.</p>
<p>Both my daughters are/were in STEM in undergrad. I can’t imagine it seriously being an issue unless the student makes it one. You have to solicit mentors, not expect them to track you down.</p>
<p>A caution with some of these smaller colleges is that their course offerings may be more limited at upper levels, particularly for advanced students in math. Choosing one with convenient cross registration access to a large research university (e.g. Barnard -> Columbia, Smith -> University of Massachusetts - Amherst) can be a way to get the best of both a small college but with access to the resources of a large research university when needed.</p>
<p>b@r!um has posted some commentary on her experiences as a math major:
<a href=“Math program - Haverford College - College Confidential Forums”>Math program - Haverford College - College Confidential Forums;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1414683-prestige-versus-cost-7.html#post15052836[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1414683-prestige-versus-cost-7.html#post15052836</a> (#94, #97, #99)</p>
<p>Illuminating and somewhat disheartening thoughts from b@r!um. Thanks for posting the links, UCB.</p>
<p>“They don’t have to shoulder aside self-promoting, pushier male classmates” - In my experience (1980s Mech E, plus more recent college touring, and experiences from DS and DD at engineering colleges), engineering students are often mellow, humble introverts. This is especially true at STEM-only schools. There are some that are more assertive… in both genders. </p>
<p>If a student has interest in an all-girls school, it should go on the list. But in my opinion it should be based on positive fit factors of that school, not fear of negative factors a co-ed STEM schools. </p>
<p>I will add that I enjoyed living on an all-girls dorm floor freshman year, where I made life long friends.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be too disheartened by b@r!um’s posts. How many of us–even those of us who are “good” at math and like it–are likely to want to and have the aptitude to go on to get a PhD, let alone aspire to a top program? To me it’s like being disheartened that X undergrad school has only sent one student to Harvard Med School, when in fact NO ONE is likely to go to Harvard Med School, even among the already very select group of people who actually GO to medical school. </p>
<p>I was a very good math student in high school, and majored in math (and something else) at Wellesley. I don’t really have either the aptitude or the desire to go on for a PhD in math, and I have real doubts as to whether I would have majored at math at all if I were in a more competitive environment. Obviously, if you think you (or your D) want to keep your options open for a top PhD math program, then it is good to note that an LAC might not be the best choice, or as ucbalumnus suggests, an LAC with access to graduate level math coursework is a wiser compromise. (Wellesley fits in this category, btw, with cross-reg at MIT). But on the other hand, merely being “good” or even very good at math in high school does not suggest that one will rise to the top in college-level math, and so in addition to considering what the outcome might be if one <em>does</em> want to go on for a PhD, it is also worth considering what the outcome might be if one turns out not to be a darling of the department. Perhaps had I gone to a research university, I would have have risen to the challenge and performed better, or performed the same but gained a more rigorous math education. Or, perhaps I would have been ushered out of the department entirely. Since I love math and will soon be a high school mathematics teacher (something there is at least as much necessity for as a PhD mathematicians, though it is very decidedly less prestigious!!!), I think the idea of a math department that is more accessible, even if it does not offer the best possible preparation for a student hoping to go on to a prestigious PhD program, has more than a little merit. That doesn’t mean that a LAC math department can’t or shouldn’t try to shore up support and resources for those seeking well-regarded graduate educations as well, and I know that Wellesley’s math department has increasingly done so. </p>
<p>Besides, one can’t help but notice that while b@r!um faced an uphill battle, she ended up having her choice of prestigious PhD programs. One of my own math professors is a wonderful man who attended a top PhD program (in fact…I believe the same one as b@r!um) on the heels of an undergraduate math degree from a selective LAC. Additionally, in my year and the year after mine all of the talented students who wished to were admitted to well-regarded PhD programs. Not as tippy-top as b@r!um, but not far off, either. So, the news is by no means all bad. To me, there is not much cause for feeling disheartened, but if it is one’s goal to be a professor of mathematics at a prestigious research university, one might feel differently. That is a legitimate goal! But to say that it doesn’t apply to most of us would be marked understatement.</p>
<p>I recommend this recent (2010) AAUW report: [Why</a> so Few: Women in STEM](<a href=“http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/Why-So-Few-Women-in-Science-Technology-Engineering-and-Mathematics.pdf]Why”>http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/Why-So-Few-Women-in-Science-Technology-Engineering-and-Mathematics.pdf). </p>
<p>Pay particular attention to Ch.6, “The College Student Experience”, starting on p.57. It analyses computer science and physics departments at different colleges to discover what factors affect success in recruiting and retaining women students. Look for colleges that follow the recommendations on pp.61-62 & 65 to create a more female-friendly environment.</p>
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<p>The University of Maryland Baltimore County (UMBC) has followed all the recommendations in the study which include:</p>
<p>~ Perform outreach to high schools
~ Send an inclusive message about who makes a good computer science student
~ Address peer culture
~ Broaden the scope of early course work</p>
<p>They also offer a course titled Women, Gender & Information Technology which is relevant to this topic.</p>
<p>mihcal1, that report is VERY interesting. Just sent it to D2, who is interested in a physics major and possible PhD in physics.</p>
<p>It’s worth noting that you take a significant amount of coursework during the PhD. After completing an undergrad math degree at a small LAC, one could conceivably get into a solid but not top research university, do a masters, then apply to and get into a top PhD program.</p>