<p>D’15 enjoys math and science and finds As in advanced courses in them to be pretty easy to earn (with the exception of Geometry). She is not, however, one to take apart toasters and TVs or join robotics clubs. I suspect her future will have more to do with the “S” of STEM, medicine or research. </p>
<p>Is a typical engineering school (CMU, MIT, NYU Poly, WPI, etc) not what such a kid should be looking at, I wonder? She has a few on her list, along with LACs and Us with strong science programs.</p>
<p>Some “engineering schools” are also strong in sciences. However, at others, the sciences may be mainly offered as supporting subjects for engineering.</p>
<p>There exists subtle gender bias in physics, chemistry, and biology. ([Science</a> faculty?s subtle gender biases favor male students](<a href=“http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/14/1211286109.full.pdf+html?with-ds=yes]Science”>http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/14/1211286109.full.pdf+html?with-ds=yes)) I can’t imagine that engineering is immune to the same effect, which shows up as a female candidate being considered less qualified than an identical-but-for-name male candidate. Note that this biased perception is extremely similar to the “girls have an advantage in admissions” discussion, which often has the (spoken or unspoken) assumption that less-qualified girls are admitted over more-qualified boys, despite the fact that at least one admissions officer on CC says it’s because the female applicant pool is better qualified than the male applicant pool.</p>
<p>As discussed in the linked article, students evaluate themselves based on the feedback they get from others. Someone who’s told they’re less-qualified than others in the program, who is less likely to be encouraged to stick with it, and who’s offered lower-paying jobs is less likely to stay in any given profession than is the person who’s given a higher rating, more mentoring, and more money.</p>
<p>OHMomof2, IMHO if your daughter wants to go into S, then she probably shouldn’t be looking for E schools. But there are boys looking at E schools who aren’t tinkerers, and if you go over to the Engineering Majors board, they get plenty of encouragement. If your D wants to be an engineer, tell her to go for it. And to expect to struggle and work long hours, and to be aware that it’s not just her that isn’t finding it easy.</p>
<p>That may be the concern, but where is the data to support that concern? And, more importantly, where is the critical thinking to analyze that data? Are females getting pushed out by the faculty powers-that-be, or by other male undergrads, or are there other issues in play, such as a possible mismatch due to the female admissions boost to begin with?</p>
<p>Don’t forget, many/most undergrad Eng/Stem majors attend large, public Unis, where one (male or female) is only a number (student ID) and test scores. It’s hard to claim bias, subtle or otherwise, when all that matters is the mid-terms and finals. (Unless not having enough female faculty member is considered inherent “bias” which then trickles down to the undergraduate population.)</p>
<p>At least in my state, the public college advising or “mentoring” is just uniformly bad, for both males and females.</p>
<p>OHMom2, my D went to a three week engineering camp at an engineering college this summer. She also gets easy As in math and science. She had tried robotics club at school and thought it was fine (but not the best thing ever). She determined after three weeks at engineering camp that she does NOT want to be an engineer, and furthermore does not want to spend all her time around engineers. So she struck almost all of the more engineering focused colleges off her list (although she kept one STEM specific college on). She will probably major in Physics… but is definitely looking at mostly non-engineering colleges for that reason. For what it is worth. :)</p>
<p>Thanks ally and intparent. She is considering a summer program at an “engineering U” and that, plus perhaps some visits, may help her focus her list.</p>
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<p>At many colleges, most LACs at least, with perhaps the exception of STEM schools and very large Us, quite the opposite is true. Men are getting in with lower stats than women due to the much higher number of high-stats women applying.</p>
<p>I admit part of the reason I am researching STEM schools for D is that in addition to her strong interest in math and science, such schools are the only ones where being female may help, not hurt, her chances of admission and scholarships.</p>
<p>For a girl who isn’t sure she wants to be surrounded by engineering nerds all the time even if she is thinking of engineering or a science major she could consider the colleges that have engineering programs that represent a minority of the students on campus. Tufts, Union, Bucknell, Lafayette, U. Rochester are the ones that come to mind as well as some Ivy league schools like Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth etc…</p>
<p>Personally, I kinda like engineering/science nerds ;-)</p>
<p>The issue of women and STEM participation and success is not new. This is an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education profiling Carleton College and its success. Little has changed. The school has one of the highest percentages of women in the sciences anywhere and PhD productivity remains one of the highest outside of tech schools. Women make up a large percentage of faculty and even at the HS level, via summer programs, STEM field for wen are promoted. </p>