whoops, i didnt post my source
they say 60% are international
My experience watching college tennis and looking at recruting is that this is true but it is interesting that two different articles say two different things. This one quotes the NCAA.
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A large portion of D1 tennis players are international, but not the majority. For men’s 2021 D1, the distribution was as follows. I think tennis has been largely excluded because the article is about fencing, and tennis like many other sports, shows a different pattern.
International – 1035 (41%)
White – 917
Hispanic – 152
Asian – 143
Unknown – 95
Multi-race – 85
Black – 64
Pacific Islander – 5
Native American – 2
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According to the NCAA database, the portion international has been decreasing since 2018. The article only goes to 2019, which may contribute to the difference. However, the numbers still don’t match. I am using the database at NCAA Demographics Database - NCAA.org .
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Yes, a tough life lesson for D21 with her 2nd place finish in the regional science fair prior to Covid. The top person had flown to a foreign country multiple times to prove his research, had some grad student assistance with his analysis from where a parent worked, and had expensive PhD level posters printed. She had printed her own and attached them to a tri-fold with a glue stick. It has become a family joke that we did not put a second mortgage on the house to fund her research at that age.
She and several friends have acceptances that prove that level of extremes is not needed to get into top colleges. I honestly think being genuine and authentic comes across in applications. These highly curated applicants with international athletic rankings, noble peace prize winning non-profits start-ups, and academic pursuits beyond what is realistically possible just do not always ring true to the admissions staff.
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Parachuting in to plug this great documentary on urban crew:
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The only sports on your list that have community Rec leagues in my area are baseball, basketball, soccer and football. Swimming is hit or miss depending on if there’s a knowledgeable parent to lead the way for a few years. I bet many people in my area have no idea what some of those sports are.
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There are some inescapable truths in this conversation.
- White, affluent families will generally have a better shot at prestigious college athletic spots.
- Colleges will not shed their athletics teams, because alumni like athletics. Many students like athletics too, both participating and attending. In general, College sports are a draw for parents, students, and communities. While a lot of people love the arts, and there are popular arts events, no stage play or painting is going to get a crowd united and cheering in the way a sports event can. I’m not a sports buff, but I get that people like sports.
- Prestigious American colleges mostly practice holistic admissions. As long as that is the case, American colleges can continue to pick and choose who they like. Anyone who dislikes the system of holistic admissions can apply to colleges without minuscule acceptance rates.
- An exceptional elite athlete with great academic stats can sport of choice their way into top colleges.
- Everyone wants to help their kids get an edge, and enable them to enjoy extracurricular activities. If everyone could afford to give their child fencing lessons, or football training, or ballet, or painting lessons, most would do so.
I honestly think if the most prestigious colleges really cared about increasing diversity, they’d start funding the the kind of student athletes they’d like to recruit. It’s not like Harvard, et al, can’t afford it.
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But the athlete can also be a poet, math geek and probably IS a smart, well-rounded kid (or wouldn’t have gotten into Harvard or Columbia or Brown). Look at the majors for the volleyball team at MIT or the crew at Harvard. Aren’t they majoring in the ‘regular’ things like the other students at those schools? Aren’t some of them also working at the newspaper or volunteering for a service club or researching with a professor? Look at the men’s soccer team at Colorado school of Mines and they are all engineers, every last one. There aren’t any poets, but there wouldn’t be any poets even if there weren’t any sports on campus at all (not offered as a major).
Athletes do other things too
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Wanted to elevate this, it’s so good.
Lots of rack and stack or less holistic schools out there for students to attend, many of which offer great experiences and outcomes.
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We live in a world of hypocrisies. The oft-stated reason for giving admission preferences to athletes is that athletes personify teamwork that these schools value. Yet, these elite schools favor individual sports over team sports. Don’t believe what they say, look at what they do.
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Teamwork is only part of what schools (and society) believe athletes bring to the table.
Other qualities that many athletes possess include leadership, resilience, confidence, dedication, discipline, good communication skills, the ability to thrive under time pressure, and persevering after failure (this is a big one…so many high stat students fear failure, and it’s unknown how they will cope with it when it happens).
All these qualities are why some companies also prefer to hire athletes as well because these qualities are linked to being successful in lots of jobs.
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But why favor expensive individual sports over team sports? Do athletes in individual sports possess greater leadership qualities, etc. than those in team sports? I don’t think so.
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I don’t think schools are favoring individual over team sports? I haven’t seen anything to suggest that.
By far and away the most athletic slots are for football. Lots of slots also in M/W soccer, baseball, M/W lacrosse, M/W ice hockey. The number of fencing slots is small, as is golf (and these individual sports do also have a team element, like swimming, XCTF, and squash).
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Not at those elite privates that the linked NYTimes article is really about.
I am not sure I understand?
There are far more athletic spots on football, lacrosse, soccer, ice hockey than fencing and the like at the highly rejective schools.
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From the article:
Hanging from the ceiling are flags from Duke, Harvard, New York University, Johns Hopkins, Notre Dame, Princeton and Columbia, representing the clique of colleges and universities with NCAA fencing teams.
Which of those “elite privates” has fewer spots for football than any other sport? Or has fewer spots for soccer, lax, baseball, etc than fencing? Ice hockey is regional, but for those universities that offer, the squads are still larger than fencing.
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A football team certainly has more people than a fencing team at any school. However, for the individual sports, many more tend to be admitted who later don’t compete.
If specific sports are favored over others, it’s usually popular, revenue earning sports. For example, football or men’s basketball may take priority over other sports, including in admission decisions.
While teamwork is a nice quality, that is not the primary reason why highly selective Ivy+ type college give huge admission advantages to athletes. It more relates to the athlete increasing chance of success in varsity competition against other colleges. For example, a student who shows incredible teamwork in a non-varsity sport like ultimate frisbee, is unlikely to see the same admission advantage as an athlete who fills a key spot on the varsity fencing team.
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Source please. This is not the case IME, simply because team sports have more recruited players.
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Interjecting to note: it’s not as easy as “fence, and get admitted to a rejective college” or play soccer, or whatever. These are kids that are in the top 1 or 2% in their sport. It’s hard to be in the top 1%! And not everybody can be, even if they decide they want to be.
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