Fencing in Boarding Schools - Varsity or Club

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
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Hi

I have been researching Fencing in Boarding schools for my younger D. There was a previous thread here in CC but it’s over 10 years ago and the list might not be updated.

So far I found Masters School to be the most recommended for Fencing. It seems to have the best facilities and environment for the sport. Also, given its’ close proximity to NYC kids can go to the top clubs there on weekends for high level training.

Lawrenceville also has a varsity team based on their website.

It seems Exeter has it - Zuckerberg was team captain? But it seems it’s only Club fencing. Same with Andover?

Other schools where I could see Varsity Fencing in their website include:
Dana Hall
Cheshire
Oregon Episcopal
Rectory School (school only up to Grade 9?)
Grier?
Hun School of Princeton
Hackley

How about Taft - we like this BS a lot so would be keen to know if they have at least club fencing? Deerfield?

How about Fencing clubs? Where can I find a website with an updated list?

Fencing is my D’s passion and would like to continue with this in BS.

Thanks all in advance.

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Paging @SevenDad

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Yes, @SevenDad will be really helpful as he’s been down this path.

Part of this will depend on how competitive your D is and how seriously she wants to pursue this.

Edited to add that his D left a school with a “top” program for another with no fencing where she could commute to train/compete with top coach for the weekends.

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One of the things you’ll have to come to grips with is that attending a top BS while maintaining a high level of a sport are difficult to do. Main reason is that most boarding schools require 3 seasons of sport. So your child will most likely have to shift to another sport for 2 seasons.

Other issue is that some BS have saturday classes. Thats when most of the tournaments/matches/club activities are. Its possible to skip Sat classes but its gets difficult at higher levels.

So thats why many BS athletes don’t do as well during college recruitment. If your daughter is on track to get college coach support, then it might be better to stay at a public school, or even an on-line school. So definitely keep this in mind when trying to decide.

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Hi @gardenstategal @skieurope - thanks for responding. Yes, we would be keen on how high level fencing could be done during BS. Target is at least Top 32 in the Junior Ranking points list. I believe this is the cut off point to be a serious contender in top Div 1 programs (Ivy+).

It’s probably why Masters School always comes up as a recommendation for serious fencing since it seems to have the weekend option to literally hop on a train and go to the top clubs in NYC.

We’re new to this BS search and I’m in the middle of reading all the “BS 101”-type info threads. It seems Masters is not part of the M10 or that G acronym which I suppose means it’s not a “top BS.” I also saw the acceptance rate of the school at 40% which makes it less selective than the 10-20% rate of the “top ones.” Not sure if my impression is correct.

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Hi @sgopal2 - thanks for the very insightful comment. I did not realise this since my impression is that BS would provide support to elite athletes. I thought it would be to their benefit of having athletes recruited into Div 1/ Ivy type schools? Or they don’t need to? Their graduates would get acceptance anyway even without the athletic route?

I also read in some BS Parent thread that some schools throw in generous FAs (even if not needed) to athletic recruits. Maybe to certain sports only like hockey?

But this is something to keep in mind or a good conversation starter with the AOs or the Athletic Directors.

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This again varies considerably by sport, and BS. The whims of the athletic director and headmaster also come into play. There are some BS which are well known for one sport (like Masters). So they do everything they can to support those athletes. There are others that do nothing, and make things very difficult for athletes.

But at some of the higher “ranked” BS, they simply give more focus to academics. Athletics are a distant second. Going to a higher ranked BS will not necessarily help with college admissions if your daughter is a serious athletic recruit. The acronym schools (GLADCHEMMS) are the ones that you should think carefully about.

My son attended Lawrenceville. He entered in 9th grade being one of the top 10 players in his sport. Inability to travel to weekend tournaments, along with a harsh attitude from the AD/Headmaster made things difficult. They forbade students from using the Lville facilities for practice/lessons. He ultimately ended up at a top college, but that was purely on academic merit. Had he decided to continue with his sport, I would have withdrawn him from Lville.

All this is a long-winded way of saying: do your homework. Talk to the parents, ask the coach. Ask about time away for tournaments. How are missed assignments handled? Can students miss tests/exams? Can she do fencing all 3 seasons and have this count towards the school’s athletic requirements? Does school help with transport? Is there a limit to how much time away on weekends? What kind of permissions are needed for her to leave campus? Can someone else transport (Uber/friend)? Or does a parent have to transport? What time do study halls start? What if she is late returning back to campus from training?

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I know a little bit about Hun School. They are located in Princeton, about 5-10 mins away from the Princeton U campus. There are a lot of great athletes at Hun, and they do a great job of supporting them. I know several that did quite well with college recruiting from Hun. They allow students to train off season, and ample opportunity to travel for tournaments.

A much smaller fraction boards at Hun (I think its around 10-20%). So its more of a Day School with some boarders. Most of the boarders are internationals. But the location is great, with small class sizes. I don’t know much about their fencing program though. There must be some type of local fencing club/academy though.

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I was paged. Here I am. Happy New Year, all!

@gtsamd: You should probably find my “One Family’s BS search and application process from start to finish” thread and read the whole thing…or at the very least, the parts that deal with my younger daughter, who is a D1 scholarship athlete at a selective non-Ivy (about to start her senior season…unless Omicron et al. shut things down again!).

As noted by sgopal2, many BS are not really set up to support elite athletes in club-centric sports like fencing. In fact, I’d hazard that most of the top fencers in the country DO NOT go to BS, for all the reasons already stated. Generally speaking, BSs want to keep their students on campus, engaged in and supporting the school-based programs…not galavanting all over the country for long weekends to attend NACs once a month in season. Nor going off campus 3-5 times a week to train at a club. Look at the rosters of the top NCAA schools and see how many BS are represented. Not many, and very few of the most discussed schools on this forum.

IMO, the “best” school for the aspiring fencer is going to depend on your kid’s weapon. For saber, I would put Dana Hall and Oregon Episcopal up there because of proximity of top coaches (both former national team coaches). For epee…Lawrenceville, Hun, and even George would be good as they could train with Princeton coach (who is one of the best epee coaches in the country, IMO) through his club (if COVID allows, I think it was shut down for a while).

Masters, is worth exploring regardless of weapon, because of the proximity to NYC, and specifically Fencers Club, which supports elite fencers in all weapon types. My daughter attended Masters for 9th and 10th as a boarder, and from a fencing POV it was near ideal. She could train at FC, was on the school team (and was a leader as a freshman), and Masters was very flexible about all of it — including all the time off campus…which during her peak was a lot. But she ended up tranferring for a variety of reasons (not academic or disciplinary) and finished her HS experience at a “second tier/hidden gem” school without a scholastic fencing team…and was still able to get recruited by a few D1 programs, including one non-HYP Ivy.

A few words of caution…if your daughter is still in middle school, know that it’s a long long road to college. As I’m sure you already know, there is a lot of losing in fencing, and you have to really love the sport to stick with it for the 8+ years that many of the best fencers have put in.

Also, I am very down on anyone who thinks fencing is some magic key to the Ivies or that Ivies are the only acceptable schools to attend. It is not and they are not. With few exceptions (like say, your daughter is the second-coming of Lee Kiefer) I do not recommend “counting” on fencing to be a difference maker in selective college admissions. Can it work out? Of course it can…but I think the funnel gets very small at the end. Also, if your kid is not standing on Cadet and Junior podiums with regularity, you are going to have to be very proactive about getting her name out.

Don’t get me wrong, I have loved our family’s time in the sport. It’s brought us to parts of America and the world I don’t think we would have ever chosen to visit otherwise. I am also very pro-BS (both of my kids attended for 4 years) and think it helped them transition to college successfully — and also provided our family with lots of memorable experiences.

Feel free to PM me with any specific questions/concerns. I’m not on CC that often anymore, though I generally show up when paged.

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Happy New Year to all! Hoping for a better 2022 ahead. Excellent and insightful responses from fellow CC parents as always!

@sgopal2 - thanks for articulating the experience of your son with Lawrenceville and giving us a very detailed idea of what it was like for him. Fencing or not, Lawrenceville is a very tough school to get accepted in the first place! Good to know that you’re son still thrived even without his sport. But I’m sure he still missed it.

It looks like we need to do a lot more homework especially with GLADCHEMMS given that we’re just starting on our BS journey. We plan to apply for 2023 entry so we should still have enough time to go through the detailed checklist you have suggested. This will be very helpful to us. We’ll also checkout Hun School.

@SevenDad - ok, I did not realise that very few top collegiate fencers come from top BS. I would have thought given the nature of the sport (“physical chess,” “tactical/ strategic thinking,” etc.) that it would have been a nice fit to these schools. Hence, we are exploring this path.

Fencing also takes up the bulk of my D’s after school hours (3-4x a week, 2.5 hour sessions + private lessons). She is very diligent with training - never misses a session. Thing is she does not have any other “spike” at this point in Middle School. I mean she has not done things like doing college level research, volunteering in a hospital, Math olympiad, launching a Climate change project, etc. - if you get what i mean. She has also minimal community work something that she is aware that needs effort. She is a Francophile though - already passed high level French proficiency exam and loves everything French - movies, youtube…you name it. Don’t ask me why :slight_smile:

My D does sabre so we’ll certainly check out and include Dana Hall and Oregon Episcopal on our list. As you’ve confirmed also - Masters. Plan is what you’ve mentioned is to head down to either Fencers Club or Manhattan Fencing Center. Good to know that Masters was quite supportive.

Yes, we are aware that it’s Fencing or sport recruitment is not the be all and end all for Ivies. We will definitely expand the college list including some strong academic schools even for Div 3. It really depends as you say since it’s still a couple of years down the road. That’s why academic rigour is also very important to us if Fencing does not get sustained.

I will also need to read first the BS application from start to finish thread since we literally just thought about the BS option a few weeks ago for 2023 entry. We’d have the whole 2022 to figure all things out with a firm & sensible BS list to start with!

From all the feedback so far we should probably construct a list of:

  1. schools like Masters, Hun, Dana Hall and Oregon Episcopal that could help sustain her fencing
  2. 1 or 2 super selective program that still has club fencing so she can still have that option to fence albeit recreationally?
  3. schools outside the acronym schools/ hidden gems - Taft, Berkshire, Westminster comes to mind but she may have to sacrifice her fencing

Thanks again for everyone’s input.

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Of the “super selective” BSs, I think the Boston-area schools could work. Pretty sure a relatively recent foilist at Harvard was from E or A…I don’t know how heavily she was recruited (meaning if she was offered a Likely Letter)…she may have been a walk-on. Just make sure that whatever club you are considering is commutable. Also, if you are not local-ish, how your daughter might get to/from club.

I personally wouldn’t put too much stock in school-based fencing clubs at any of the schools, as the interest can fluctuate from year to year…and they may only have one weapon and/or may not even have electrical scoring equipment. If she’s training a lot right now and doing well at tournaments, I’m sure your daughter would be a lot better than any BS club fencer, possibly even better than the coach/advisor.

FWIW, my daughter who fences sounds a bit like your own in terms of not necessarily being that “pointy” outside of fencing…at least not as a middle schooler. One alternative to BS (unless you have a compelling reason for BS) is local private day school. She would probably get the academic rigor you are looking for, be around similarly minding peers, and the school would probably be very flexible about missed time (because they like to promote student achievements).

If your local public school is strong, don’t discount that as an option either.

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Wanted to chime in about this specific thing. For schools whose websites list fencing among the clubs, I’d reach out directly to ask whether it’s definitely offered every year (or every, say, winter if that’s what they do) or whether it’s sometimes skipped/dropped for lack of student interest, lack of coach, etc.

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Hi @SevenDad - my DD eventually got an offer at Culver Academy. We found that they have a varsity fencing team which is one of the reasons we applied. But I noticed they only have Fencing as a Winter sport. Is it possible to train during the fall and spring seasons? Can she continue to train in the school or is there a club/ external team she could train with? Is Notre Dame even possible (given it’s in Indiana)? We want to know a few more details before we commit.

Though we will be quite happy to attend since they also gave us sufficient Financial Aid. We also did see the fencers being recruited (Brown, UNC, Johns Hopkins, UCSD) so that’s a good sign.

Any advice to attend Culver will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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I don’t know TOO many fencers who attended Culver, TBH. From what I understand, there IS the possibility to train at Escrime du Lac fencing club, which is essentially run by ND coaches. Make sure to sort the doability out BEFORE committing, though.

My only other take on Culver (which would be appealing to a teenage me, tbh) is that, IMO, the caliber of fencers one gets to practice with matters A LOT. So, if your DD is able to fence at EdL, that’s good. If she’s currently nationally ranked, she may not get the level of practice-mates she’s used to among her fellow Culver-ites.

I’ll write to you via PM as well.

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