<p>SlitheyT- My son is going to go to Alabama because of their program, and I understand that UAB also has good merit. I Did not know about Arizona. I live in MD, and UMCP would be instate, and still more expensive. And all of UMCP’s scholarships are competitive, not stats based. We did look at Rochester, and its aid was not comparable, or “full ride”. GW and Mac not on radar. The statement “many other” is just not true, unfortunately There is SOME merit aid out there based only on merit, not on other factor like income. But it is not available at the vast majority of universities, unfortunately.</p>
<p>^^^FYI, even if you have a degree from the #1 school on the link you just posted there is no guarantee you will have a job. I personally know Caltech grad who lost his job last year right along with all those who had attended less “prestigious”, and a year later he is still unemployed. His loans did not go away just because his job did.</p>
<p>“By that logic, all public schools should discontinue all merit aid, and those funds should be used in the K-12 budget.”</p>
<p>No, most state flagships need OOS to increase their revenue, not to attract the top students. Alabama, Arizona, Oklahoma, etc, need to attract the top OOS students by giving them $$$ to attend.</p>
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<p>Will you agree that none of these are full rides and none are as generous as what is offered to NMFs?</p>
<p>"^^^FYI, even if you have a degree from the #1 school on the link you just posted is no guarantee you will have a job. I personally know Caltech grad who lost his job last year right along with all those who had attended less “prestigious”, and a year later he is still unemployed. His loans did not go away just because his job did."</p>
<p>So you are basing your argument on that going to a top school and taking out loans is bad on one student. Talk about not backing up something with statistics.</p>
<p>Perazziman- At Alabama that is true. NMF is a true full ride. But the same student, with all the same stats <em>except</em> a NMF qualifing number gets tuition only. There are a few competitive scholarships, but the guaranteed ones are not equal. </p>
<p>I am not sure about the other schools.</p>
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<p>What am I suppose to be backing up? That sometimes the name on the degree won’t matter? I wasn’t trying to discredit the information you shared, only sharing personal experience. Did not know every post had to be backed up with statistics. Sorry</p>
<p>Sorry, but it sounds like a lot of sour grapes from a poster whose kid did poorly on the PSAT (which is scored up to a maximum of 240, not 2400). If a college wants to use the NM to lure a student, even if it is with only a few thousand $, what the heck is wrong with that? It is no different than dangling what may be a boatload of institutional grant money (free money- NOT a loan that has to be repaid) to try to cherry pick the top students
I totally agree with the posters who say that the PSAT is by no means perfect (nor is the ACT or SAT) but it is a standardized benchmark that schools and companies use to acknowledge and reward ability as measured by performance on this test. Perhaps being a good test-taker may correlate with other potential successes. Regardless, if a public or private school doesn’t want or need to use it to cherry pick good students, then fine, they can stop. UF stopped many years ago. But for those schools that continue to like to acknowledge/reward performance on this test as an indicator of merit that is perfectly fine too. </p>
<p>No matter how many times one tries to “spin” that acceptance to a top school is reward enough, thats still a pile of horse patoot. Any school that is unaffordable is no reward- in fact its probably a punishment. So brag that your kid got all sorts of merit awards and an “institutional grant” (aka merit award) FREE money (ie not loans) from several schools, but stop insulting posters whose kids did well on the PSAT. Flame away if you must. Maybe the flames will kill the stench coming from some posts.</p>
<p>There are fewer schools than some would think that offer “automatic” full tuition or full ride opportunities for NMF. Most of these are not in USNWR top 50 rankings. Because of this a fair number of these tippy top kids do not even apply to the tippy top schools. I would assume that this would open up more spots for the students who get significant financial aid to be admitted. Most of the schools that my son is applying to offer competitive scholarships. His GPA, SAT, EC’s are all considered. Thus scoring well on the PSAT is only a very small component. Being a NMSF may be a plus but it is not the magic elixer that some assume.</p>
<p>It seems some of the posters really just can’t stand merit aid in any form. I am not trying to change their minds. That would be impossible.</p>
<p>“Sorry, but it sounds like a lot of sour grapes from a poster whose kid did poorly on the PSAT (which is scored up to a maximum of 240, not 2400).”</p>
<p>I assume you are talking about me. You couldn’t be further from the truth as not only was my son given merit aid of $30K a year at his second choice school - he was given more than that per year in institutional aid (no loans) from his top choice and higher ranked school as well as work study. I also pay significantly less than the cost of my state’s public universities. </p>
<p>I have nothing against merit aid if a private university decides to spend their money that way. My son collected over $600k for 4 years in merit aid from 7 schools if one added them all up. </p>
<p>I have a problem with aid being given as the result of a single test and especially from public universities which are charged with educating the citizens of their state giving free rides based on a single test to OOS students.</p>
<p>"Institutional grants. These grants come from the colleges themselves, and they are handed out when federal and state aid isn’t enough – or when the school is trying to discount its sticker price enough to attract a desirable candidate. Sometimes, colleges will substitute grants for loans to sweeten the deal for a sought-after student. Typically, you don’t apply for these grants. But students can increase their chances for an attractive financial aid package by targeting schools that are likely to want them, rather than fighting to be admitted to a school that has plenty of other choices.’</p>
<p>Seems like a heck of a lot of kids who score enough to be NMSF would be able to take advantage of that instead of whining that some schools are droppiing NMF money.</p>
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I think that we all can find fault with the way admissions and scholarships are decided. Yours is about a test, mine about how FA is calculated (among others reasons)…
The bottom line is that the whole system stinks. And is not universally fair. Welcome to life, we all have to learn how to play the game.</p>
<p>You said your kid did poorly on the PSAT. Fine. Move on. So he got lots of merit money from elsewhere (and no matter how you spin it, institutional grants are merit money to lure candidates they want). Congrats, brag all you want about it. Merit award is merit award- whether its from one test or not. How is this any different from schools who offer $ to kids who do well on other standardized tests, and who take them over and over until they can superscore to a score they think will get them what they want? Whats it to you? I have a healthier respect for my kids, who each took the SAT once and were done, than those students who take and retake the tests to get a higher score. </p>
<p>Hunt or someone asked earlier how many students stay in the state they attend college. that is a very fair question. State schools are banking on that-- that some of the best and brightest OOS’ers will accept employment in the state after graduation. Thats what they want. And if they get only one out of 10 (purely made up number), or a few stay for grad/professional school and then stay to set up a practice, then the state benefits from this too. </p>
<p>BTW, looking at potential future employment figures as a way to justify taking on gargantuan debt for undergraduate is simply ridiculous. Thats what gets so many students in big $$ trouble.
BTW, there are plenty of kids who do well academically AND do well on the PSAT. Its fine to acknowledge their performance over those who do well academically but who do not do well on the PSAT. And if there are good test-takers who happen to do well on the PSAT even if they dont have the grades, good for them. But they aren’t as likely to be admitted to the schools that offer big ticket NMS $$ as those who have the other credentials to back it up.</p>
<p>** edit** I would bet my shorts that the tone of your posts would differ if your kid was a NMF.</p>
<p>I agree that substantial merit aid isn’t available at the majority of universities, but I also know that at least some merit aid is available at many universities. “Significant amount” is going to mean different things to different families, but I personally don’t think of it as meaning “full ride”. Your interpretation, of course, may vary. 
If cost is the overriding concern and you beat the bushes looking then there is money to be found. A classic thread is <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships-31.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships-31.html</a> . Note the disparaging comments about this strategy at the start of the thread (back when we had a go-go economy) and now.</p>
<p>Question for general discussion: why don’t more schools offer stats-based full rides? I’m wondering why recruitment of these students via National Merit trumps recruitment via, say, a 2350/35 on the SAT/ACT. Using the SAT/ACT alone would do more to boost the stats of the incoming freshman class. Maybe it’s cheaper to market based on the PSAT (everyone takes the test on the same two days as opposed to a bunch of different test dates)? Maybe getting to recruit prospies early is more effective? </p>
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<p>emilybee, my comment was in response to your comment that the money for OOS full rides should be used to improve K-12 education in-state so that more students would go to college. Alabama et al aren’t going to be making money off of those OOS students who are getting even partial merit money. The state flagships that are making money off of OOS students attract them by having a good reputation (e.g. UC, U Michigan, UVA).</p>
<p>Believe me I moved on from that 3 years ago as the only purpose, imo, to take the PSAT is to give a student an idea of what it’s like to take the SAT. </p>
<p>It seems to me that the people who are doing the most whining are the ones upset that NYU, a private university, isn’t going to give their kids NMF $$$.</p>
<p>Neglected to mention that the quote you accuse someone of “whining” about is from MSN money [How</a> to find free money for college - tuition & grants - MSN Money](<a href=“MSN”>MSN)</p>
<p>The savvy student looks for free money. Yours did. Congrats. So why fault other students for doing the same? The only difference is that the NMS $ is guaranteed at some schools whereas institutional aid is at the whim of the school. I have long argued that the PSAT is way too often overlooked by students who underestimate its importance until it is too late. Yes, its a one shot deal. What is wrong with going for the ring? Nothing. Your kid didnt get it, but don’t besmirch those that did.</p>
<p>Full disclosure. Both my s’s are NMF. Did they get rich off of the $? Heck no. Both of their schools are private, but both offer token $$ for NMF. My kids earned it and I am proud of them for it. Younger s’s big school scholarship (full tuition) was a merit based one requiring a separate application. It was based on SAT, GPA, extracurriculars, and I’ll bet the NMF was looked at as well. Dont know for sure- just guessing. He was also offered merit $$ at other schools. So what. My kids didnt apply to a gazillion schools (older s applied ED and to a safety, younger s applied to 4) so I cant total up their "winnings " across many schools and its totally irrelevant anyway, other than for bragging rights or $$ trophy hunting perhaps.</p>
<p>I agree with Slithey,</p>
<p>Why can’t someone come up with a test that actually measures something and is designed to find the top students in the country? The PSAT was not designed for this so it’s a shame it’s used in the way it is. Maybe some combination of the SAT subject tests would work. I don’t have a problem with merit aid, but this test is really not the right one to use.</p>
<p>ST, I believe we are saying the same thing. Alabama isn’t making any money off of their OOS full rides so, imo, instead the state of Alabama should be spending that money on educating Alabamans (sp) so someday they to may be able to attend 'Bama. Is it not the mission of a publicly funded university to educate the citizens of their own state before all others?</p>
<p>It is also sometimes much easier to get into state schools by being OOS because they pay more. For instance, it is very difficult to get into SUNY Binghamton as a New Yorker but they accept OOS kids with much lower stats.</p>
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Did you know when your kid took the PSAT in October of junior year that it was used for scholarship potential?</p>
<p>“Neglected to mention that the quote you accuse someone of “whining” about is from MSN money How to find free money for college - tuition & grants - MSN Money”</p>
<p>Umm…no. There are posters on this thread who are whining and believe because their child got a very high score on the PSAT that is “pure achievement” and should be rewarded with money.</p>