<p>Hey everyone</p>
<p>Im writing a paper right now ( and through the night!) about the morality of using Native Americans as mascots. Im using the use of the fighting irish as somewhat of a counter example....</p>
<p>But I was wondering if anyone is offended by the use of "Fighting Irish" as compared to the outcry against the "Fighting Illini" </p>
<p>just wondering</p>
<p>NO! This whole mascot controversy is ridiculous- I'm part Native American and Part Irish (as well as a bunch of other things) and I don't feel offended by it at all. Do you think all the Scandinavians decedents up in Minnesota whine about the Vikings? Do you think the Greeks boy-cot teams called "The Spartans?" Of course not. This is absurd.</p>
<p>It's good that you don't feel offended, but I did notice that you identified yourself as Native American, and not Indian!!</p>
<p>Remember, though, that legend says that originally Fighting Irish was meant as an insult. It is just that we have gotten past a lot of the Catholic bigotry which used to exist (though there is still some today, no doubt) so it isn't taken as an insult anymore. Let me know if you need further details.</p>
<p>I was clarifying that I'm not from the Indian subcontinent, that's all. I have no issue with using the term Indian-in fact, I prefer it to Native American when there's no room for confusion.</p>
<p>What about paddy wagon?</p>
<p>Being 100% Irish and a dual citizen to Ireland, with 80% of my family still in the homeland, if anything it is a compliment. Yes, it was created as an insult against Irish Catholic immigrants, calling us drunks, barbarians, etc. But America has grown up and grown beyond those prejudices. From the Irish perspective, anything that refers to us as the "fighter," is a compliment. It puts pride into our heritage of fighting for independence from the UK, most notably Easter Rising. Believe it or not this fight is still going on today, regardless of what the news chooses to ignore. The Irish government gets a lot of heat from the Protestant loyalist minority, as well as from Northern Ireland, to join the UK. (To combat this is why the modern IRA, the Provisional Irish Republican Army, was created of course). So, to sum things up, we appreciate the mascot title. Thanks ND!</p>
<p>How about "Snowball Throwin' Irish"?</p>
<p>It started as an insult and so Notre Dame embraced it and showed people that maybe being the "Fighting Irish" wasn't such a bad thing after all... I don't think it's offensive at all. I would be upset if Notre Dame tried to change it. I'm only part Irish, but coming to Notre Dame has helped me embrace that. The same seems to be true for everyone here- no matter if they even have any Irish blood in them.</p>
<p>As a side note, I'm also part Norwegian and I can say that I'm not offended by the Minnesota Vikings either. I guess if my family were easily offended, we'd lose all our favorite football teams...</p>
<p>Whatever terms may have been used to describe the Irish, they seem to not complain nearly as much as others do. Of course they hold the highest positions in business, government, and nearly every other field. We got ours haha. Check out Jack Nicholson's opening lines in The Departed</p>
<p>Well great - you guys seem to have dispensed with all that PC silliness. Since Syracuse and Dartmouth have no real mascots - only colors - I propose the Syracuse Fightin' Negroes and the Dartmouth Fightin' Jews.</p>
<p>It appears that when the Notre Dame sports team got that name, the players were Irish, as were a lot of the students, and they adopted that name for themselves. So, if, say, Yeshiva University wanted to call its team the Fightin' Jews, or the Irate Israelites, perhaps, that wouldn't be an insult--it might be a cooptation of a slur though. It wouldn't be a cooptation if Syracuse or Dartmouth did what you suggest.</p>
<p>An example of this might be the Howard University Bison--probably named in reference to the "Buffalo Soldiers," a term that is now a term of pride.</p>
<p>I didn't understand why some Native Americans got so ****ed with Chief Illiniwek and Illinois. I'm Irish and don't give a flying flip that ND's name is the Fighting Irish, and Leprechaun dances around on the field.</p>
<p>To anyone who gets upset about this kind of thing I'll pass along a suggestion one often hears in Greek tragedy: "Get a life." By the way, where are the Irish from? And what is a leprechaun?</p>
<p>I'm 95% Irish and I love that Notre Dame has such a mascot. Definately not offended by it. :D</p>
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I didn't understand why some Native Americans got so ****ed with Chief Illiniwek and Illinois. I'm Irish and don't give a flying flip that ND's name is the Fighting Irish, and Leprechaun dances around on the field.
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<p>Difference is that ND was once largely an Irish-American university and they EMBRACED the terminology (just as Northwestern was once known as the "Fighting Methodists").</p>
<p>The native Americans, otoh, never had the CHOICE and much of the imagery is set in ignorance.</p>
<p>For instance, the Sweet Sioux Trophy that Northwestern and Illinois fought over (for the last time this season) is a bit silly, since the Sioux weren't indigenous to Illinois).</p>
<p>I've heard a lot of Italians complain that Notre Dame was more Italian at the time they were given the nickname the Fighting Irish (Italians having a very strong tie with the Catholics)</p>
<p>I'm from Ireland and a Notre Dame alum. I love the university but I am not totally sold on the Fighting Irish name. What I really don't like is the leprechaun logo -- the one with the ape-like face in profile, in boxing stance. I wish they'd bring back Clashmore Mike.</p>
<p>could be wrong.</p>
<p>but Im pretty sure the nick name was added during the era of Notre dame's third president. His name escapes me now but he had some sort of standing with the Irish armed forces.</p>