fighting the intellectual hegemony of the privileged in the admissions process

Applying to College
1

<p>Just curious, seems it just seems that rich people are overrepresented on CC ... </p>

<p>I'm tired of having most of my intellectual peers (in debate, chess, academics, etc.) come from families who have incomes of over a $100,000 a year. Whenever I meet them it seems that they always have facebook pictures of them enjoying an exorbitantly expensive vacation in some foreign country, enough for them to call it a "multicultural experience..." </p>

<p>All the people who receive recognition for their multiculturalism or multilingualism (usually as officer of some multicultural organisation) are the people who moved around the world as privileged children of rich expats. Prompt commendation from the school authorities. Of course, in their time overseas in their international schools rarely did they interact with the children in the mainstream education system of that country ... how multicultural! How cosmopolitan! </p>

<p>As for the immigrant students from Somalia, Vietnam or war-torn Sudan -- for example, my schoolmate who lived through rape and civil war -- or other immigrant classmates who have had to conquer political repression and immense language barriers without tutors and elite schooling -- nope, they don't deserve such recognition. They are not encouraged to join groups that would make use of their experiences and strengths (such as model UN, debate and so forth, or any intellectual or multicultural EC for that matter). </p>

<p>While the rich kids scramble for things to inflate their resume, it does not occur to most of my poorer immigrant classmates (or their guidance counselors) that their struggles are something worthy of mentioning on their applications. Of course, no one tells them to aim past community college either -- or even college at all. Some of them are immensely intelligent, and the only difference is that they are not aware that their potential exceeds their ambition, and it pains me to see the prejudice their counselors foist upon them. I only escaped this prejudice because I asserted my ambition (which is not always a good character trait), whereas the more modest individuals are effectively screwed.</p>

<p>I don't know -- it just seems that having gone through the admissions process, it's difficult to find (especially in real life) people of similar intellectual interests and aspirations that don't happen to be incredibly privileged. I would especially like more intellectual peers in college who I can socioeconomically relate to, or at least people who aren't totally oblivious to their privilege. I'm a bit depressed at this whole world I'm entering. In my high school, I have trouble finding an AP student (who does well in AP classes) whose family isn't rich enough to give them a car or give them everything they've wanted in life. I thought college would be the escape. When I was in sophomore year picking colleges, I picked my top choices out of the belief (having browsed their promotional materials) that they would be filled with exceptional peers who overcame immense barriers to pursue their intellectual goals, not rich spoilt brats who want to become lawyers and engineers because their parents said so. Of course come senior year I discovered CC, and hit upon the truth of the admissions culture. </p>

<p>Now on the verge of entering the world of college, I have realised the hegemony of the wealthy seems to be worse there than it is in high school, especially since it seems likely that I will be <em>living</em> with them. Of course, I am only a 17-year-old, and perhaps others who have been in my position know what it's like making the transition between socioeconomic environments?</p>

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<p>books.google.com, ocw.mit.edu, webcast.berkeley.edu, Apple</a> - Education - iTunes U - Overview, as far as I can tell the playing field is being leveled very very very quickly.</p>

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<p>The playing field is not the least bit level and won't be without radical changes to the admissions process. It's appaling how colleges are so socioeconomically homogeneous. While I'm sure the situation was even worse, say, thirty years ago or so, that doesn't mean we have to be complacent with the sickening inequalities in higher education.</p>

4

<p>The majority of Americans come from immigrant roots, so at some point in each Freshman's lineal history, there was a first generation collegian, who was not from the "privileged" class. Your own children will enter college as the socioeconomic beneficiaries of your college education, and as such will become the "privileged" students you appear to abhor.</p>

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<p>My ex grew up on the 'wrong side of the tracks'. His poverty motivated him. He was quite smart and he has done what he wanted with his life. Sure he noticed that he was poor and others were not when he was in college--and yeah, even in high school, but it didn't depress him. He was philosophical about it. He was also more determined than ever to achieve and his perseverance paid off. Of course, our kids didn't grow up poor, although with our backgrounds they certainly didn't grow up to be rich brats either. They had enough but weren't given cars until they were in college for a year or two. Your intellectual peers have intelligent parents, and barring some difficulty, they were just bound to make a decent income thru hard work and brains, which resulted in their children having a certain amount of privilege.</p>

<p>You might also be interested to know that everyone has their hassles in life. What appears to you to be great privilege may hide an unhappy home life or some other misfortune, or else some other awful experience will befall these privileged types, sooner or later. So I wouldn't worry too much about their good fortune at present. In the end, everyone gets about the same # of good and bad experiences. And don't forget, 'good' is relative. Having a somewhat larger bowl of rice than usual may leave a person in an overseas country as delighted as someone here may feel over a great party or whatever.</p>

<p>Just have to also comment about an earlier post. When you have all first graders with college potential doing lots of recreational reading at home, which they keep up all thru elementary and high school, then we will have a more level playing field in higher education. The problem is that FAMILIES are falling down on the job of encouraging lots of recreational reading at home. Instead, American kids watch umpteen hours of tv a week and play videogames incessantly. Time that could be spent improving reading skill through recreational reading (which is FUN TO DO) instead is frittered away on junk activities. Then these students are not ready for the challenge of high school, not to mention the difficulties they face when they attempt college.</p>

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<p>Hmm..
I live in a very rich area. However, there are enough stingy (Asian :)) parents around (including mine) that we never, ever get what we want without reason. Of course, our school IS populated with the typical, spoiled rich kids, but there are plenty of us whose first generation parents were born into poverty but worked their way towards a good income and thus life in America. Their frugal ways have not changed since they were young, and this reflects on their "rich" kids. </p>

<p>For example, it is very hard to ask for even 3 dollars from my mother. Yet my dad earns a lot of money. </p>

<p>Go figure.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
Their frugal ways have not changed since they were young, and this reflects on their "rich" kids.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, I don't mind such people -- in fact, I would love to meet way more -- but of those I have physically met, such people seem kind of relatively rare when compared to the rest of their rich peers.</p>

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<p>I don't want to speak for the OP but I dont think he/she "abhors" his/her privileged peers. He/She is just making the completely valid and unfortunate observation that poorer students who are just as bright and driven as their priviliged peers, often are not offered the same opportunities. And when society makes the most modest of attempts to level such a horribly unequal playing field with affirmitive action, priviliged kids go crazy.</p>

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<p>You are born at random to people. You cannot expect equality when your early life is by chance (e.g. body, socioeconomic status, etc.). You are not entitled to anything at all UNLESS someone agrees to do something for you out of their own will.</p>

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<p>If it makes you feel any better, I am an AP student who is a reasonably high GPA, and my parents make about the median income in my city. Though I am not considered poor, I am no means rich either. I am a first generation college student whose one parent swam to Hong Kong as his mode of transportation for his emigration and didn't finish elementary school and neither can speak English. I didn't speak a word of English until I entered my bilingual kindergarten class. I chose my college because of its financial aid package (and over my top choice), and like k14, I do not ask my parents for money if I don't want to feel guilty. </p>

<p>I agree with much of what the OP said. I see people getting into school's because they are wealthy. There are very few students from my school who are going to an Ivy who makes under 100k (I am one of them). They don't get in. It's not because they're not smart or brilliant, they just don't get in because they don't have the opportunities their richer peers do. And you know what, these are the kids who need to go to these schools filled with connections and what not. The other kids, their rich parents can provide them with other connections, jobs, etc. But the girl whose single mother is making ends meet as a seamstress, no matter how smart girl is, will never have the same connections as the guy who is a double legacy at Stanford.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I don't want to speak for the OP but I dont think he/she "abhors" his/her privileged peers.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Okay, then I guess OP simply finds them "tiresome," resume-inflating "rich spoilt brats." But he does not abhor them. I feel better now.</p>

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<p>I had a whole post typed out, but my browser just closed on me and I'll just say this: I had expected this thread to be about richer (non-FA) kids having a leg up in the admissions process, and was not-so-pleasantly surprised to find it simply a rant against wealthy students.</p>

<p>Raging against the bourgeois lifestyle is, like, so 40 years ago. Yes, <em>some</em> wealthier students are ignorant of suffering. But others have different problems, which are usually glossed over by people like the OP as menial or petty, no matter how serious they are, and that alarms me. Being secure financially is not the same as being secure psychologically.</p>

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<p>welcome to the world. wealth = privilege</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Your own children will enter college as the socioeconomic beneficiaries of your college education, and as such will become the "privileged" students you appear to abhor.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>IF I become financially successful (big if), I will eschew spoiling my children. I will make them highly aware of any privilege they enjoy, and to teach them to remember their humbler roots. I will seek to inspire them in intellectual pursuits, and I will nudge, not push. I will teach them to value independence over getting an A. Least of all, they will not pursue a subject, activity or a line of work "because my parents want me to." Should we go on vacation, it will be one with high marginal benefit per marginal cost, and be one of inspiration, not privilege. It will especially not the type where they will go, "OMG I'M IN ITALY!!!11" on Facebook.</p>

<p>One of my desires is to found a school (if I should be so lucky in my endeavours) that will aim at giving opportunities of academic excellence of low-income backgrounds. My wish is to create the equivalent of a prep school without the privilege. If that doesn't work out, I will at least ensure that my children won't be sheltered and "protected" from other peers who are not of their economic status.</p>

<p>Assuming my career even gets that far.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
welcome to the world. wealth = privilege

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Naturally. </p>

<p>When I was younger, what I did not expect was the correlation between the opportunity to have a home hot tub and the opportunity to develop one's intellectual potential to the fullest. </p>

<p>Of course I expected some correlation, but until this year I had not been aware what a thriving industry the "pay-us-to-get-your-children-into-good-schools" services were, or how ironically mindless much of the culture of the wealthy was in terms of seeking educational opportunity, with people taught to value prestige over actual intellectual development.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Being secure financially is not the same as being secure psychologically.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Financial security brings the resources to deal with psychological insecurity.</p>

<p>Everyone has had to deal with psychological insecurity at one point.</p>

<p>What are the psychological problems they suffer that are different from those of the unwealthy? "OMG no one knows what it's like to have the burden of so much money?" </p>

<p>These are somehow more significant than say, the problems of poorer immigrant kids who escaped from much more deplorable conditions?</p>

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<p>"Financial security brings the resources to deal with psychological insecurity."</p>

<p>Oh yes!!! If you have money you can buy a wand. And with that wand, eternal happiness!!! Nope! Money does not get rid of your problems.</p>

<p>And last I checked, wealth is often the reward of one's accomplishments.</p>

<p>You seem very caught up in resentment of the rich, in which you seem to describe in most cases as boa****l. That, I must say, is not the case.</p>

<p>And please explain. What is a level playing field?</p>

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<p>hahaha. so i spelled boast ful. just combined it's shut the f...up so that's why it is censored</p>

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<p>I'm not talking about a level playing field per se. While that is a strong concern of mine, it's just the disillusionment that before senior year, I thought many of the colleges with intellectually attractive programs would be filled with kids who took charge of their own destiny. I did not expect them to be full of people who were there because their high culture and high society pushed them to do so, or because they feared shame from their parents if they didn't get into at least one school in the top 25. </p>

<p>I'm not sure if having one's parents paying for a counsellor for thousands of dollars to help one write his/her essay is equivalent to one taking charge of his/her own destiny. </p>

<p>Just look at some of the spoiled/privileged attitudes in the Prep School forum. It just sickens me. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Nope! Money does not get rid of your problems.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The rich can hire therapists. People of my class cannot.</p>

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<p>therapists can only do so much...</p>

<p>I still think you overestimate the number of spoiled rich (specifically spoiled...you know, cocky, arrogant rich kids)kids attending top schools. Spoiled comes with a specific attitude. Many kids, instead of boasting about what they have are rather thankful instead, for the privelege and/or blessing they have.</p>

<p>I will definitely agree about prep schools though. The proportion of kids at prep schools that go off to top schools is rather unsettling. And it is even worse when a kid does not have his own ambitions and attends a school for reasons other than his own educational interests.</p>

<p>I don't think the only beneficiaries in college admissions are the wealthy. However, I will not go into details about other things since this is clearly not the thread for such debate, as this is your thread.</p>

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<p>""When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."
–Dom Helder Camara, Brazilian archbishop</p>

<p>"Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. Working men of all countries, unite!"
–Karl Marx</p>

<p>"Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.' "
–Phelps Adams</p>

<p>"Communism is the corruption of a dream of justice."</p>

<p>"Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff."
–Frank Zappa</p>

<p>"Today the primary threat to the liberties of the American people comes not from communism, foreign tyrants or dictators. It comes from the tendency on our own shores to centralize power, to trust bureaucracies rather than people."
–George H. Allen</p>

<p>"There is not so much difference between the ideologies of capitalism and communism, you know. The difference is simple. Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man, and communism is the reverse."
–John Gardner, The man from Barbarossa</p>

<p>"Communism is the perfect system, in theory. As are Monarchy, Fascism and Democracy. The only reason they don't work, is because of Human nature to pervert the situation into the best one for them. Nothing else."
Samuel </p>

<p>Enjoy</p>