Figuring out how to pay for college for a HS junior

Paying for College
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<p>UCSD is on the list because that’s the local UC and junior can live at home. All the other ones aren’t under consideration because of the cost of room and board. </p>

<p>I’ve encouraged junior to consider Cal Poly if he decides to do stats.</p>

<p>True; he could do graduate level studies at State but it’s not really appealing… Yes, mom4college, this definitely is an issue with coursework since junior’s taken lots of college math and physics since he loves it. This is why we’ve tried to find colleges that are strong in these areas and some that junior could take grad classes as an undergrad. UTD definitely will do that. UT Austin is stronger academically, from what I understand, but Dallas is a more appealing city (already has friends there) to junior and the chess at UTD is appealing.</p>

<p>Not sure what junior wants to do with music-symphony, for sure. Maybe private lessons. Junior loves the idea of Nashville for various music opportunities (violin, guitar, voice are his 3 strongest areas) such as Nashville Strings Machine. He’d love to keep freelancing and teaching; don’t think he wants to teach for a living and he’s not good enough (well, maybe not dedicated enough) to be a soloist.</p>

<p>Yes, I’d forgotten that travel can be an issue, though flights from here to certain cities such as Philidelphia are quite inexpensive. We are visiting Princeton and Penn and flights were $170 round (and I can thank Grandpa for his Wells Fargo points that paid for them)</p>

<p>Bottom line-dad doesn’t want any schools on the list where it’s not clear we’ll be able to afford it so we have work to do in looking at financial aid and scholarship policies of the various schools on the list.</p>

<p>Can parents or students get more clarification from schools before applying? I did get a work up from CMU on finances-that school came off the list. :-(</p>

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<p>Well, let’s see. I apologize if I missed something in the thread, but is Junior a home schooler or has he attended high school? Has he taken the SAT Subject tests? Why is he auditing the college courses and not taking them for credit? Will he be playing baseball in college? </p>

<p>Having gone through an exhaustive search for my D, I can appreciate your situation! </p>

<p>What I am thinking is that a LAC may not be the best place for a kid who is really into math and science and is currently auditing upper division courses at a state U. I am being very general here, of course, and exceptions probably abound. Unless something comes in via an Ivy/great financial aid, I do not see how an out of state public, such as the U of Texas, would wind up more affordable than a UC (for a California resident). </p>

<p>Does UCSD have appropriate programs in Junior’s field? </p>

<p>The process is so unpredictable that I would build my list starting with an absolute safety or two. It is not clear if Cal Poly is that safety or if it is UCSD. But what you want, right off the bat, is a school that you can likely afford that will likely admit Junior. And then you can start the reaches and the dream schools.</p>

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<p>Yes…you will find an off peak bargain like this at times. BUT remember, when you want your kiddo home for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring Break or Summer…he will be traveling when there are tons of other travelers (especially Thanksgiving and Christmas). I would wager money you will not find $170 round trip fares at those times.</p>

<p>Re: Private lessons…make sure you factor those into your costs. Most schools charge non-majors for instrument lessons. </p>

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<p>Then you really need to look carefully at schools and their financial aid policies. The Ivies and the like WILL require you to pay your EFC. If Dad says he can’t or won’t do that, you will need to look at other options…and you will need to be very candid with Junior about your financial limitations.</p>

<p>Do a search here for a thread by momfromtexas…it’s deals with full ride scholarships. She found a bunch of them. The info is getting on the old side but the ideas are still good. It’s a classic CC thread. </p>

<p>One thing to consider…the best merit aid for your son MIGHT just come from a school that is NOT in top of the “rankings”. There are a ton of wonderful colleges where your son could get some significant merit aid, but they might not be as tippy top as you seem to be implying you are looking at.</p>

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<p>You wouldn’t think UCSB for this, but you should:</p>

<p>[College</a> of Creative Studies, UC Santa Barbara](<a href=“http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/]College”>http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/)</p>

<p>[College</a> of Creative Studies, UC Santa Barbara - Chemistry and Biochemistry](<a href=“http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/chem_biochem]College”>http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/chem_biochem)</p>

<p>[College</a> of Creative Studies, UC Santa Barbara - Physics - Home](<a href=“http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/physics/]College”>http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/physics/)</p>

<p>[College</a> of Creative Studies, UC Santa Barbara - Mathematics](<a href=“http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/math]College”>http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/math)</p>

<p>The problem with the UCs is figuring out cost, but that can come later. The CCS program is definitely worth considering.</p>

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<p>SlitheyTove, junior did have UCSB CCS on the list for a while because the CCS program does sound awesome, but we heard it was a super party school with little faith-based support and this didn’t interest him. Maybe we heard wrong? </p>

<p>Thumper, yes, I do believe there are some very good schools around the country. I would never have thought about Ivies but we have been encouraged by some who know junior that we should consider these top schools in addition to some of the lesser known colleges. I think we have a good mix on the list now and some may be eliminated after visits. I’m encouraging junior to try and take a trip this summer to see Vanderbilt and Davidson since he has a friend in the area that he could stay with.</p>

<p>UTD has these scholarships: [Incoming</a> Freshman Scholarships - UT Dallas](<a href=“http://www.utdallas.edu/enroll/financialaid/freshmen.php]Incoming”>http://www.utdallas.edu/enroll/financialaid/freshmen.php)
Some cover all expenses (and obviously are uber competitive), so even if a student isn’t a resident, it’s still doable, I think. The McDermott Scholars program, in particular, seems to attract some amazing students.</p>

<p>Mom4College, so junior has been in private homeschool/past time concurrent enrollment in community college with some university audits until this year. Junior wanted to play baseball so he joined a homeschool PSP (sort of a satellite program) so he’s still homeschooled. His coursework is a mixture of things: honors homeschool class, audit at the univ (will explain in a minute), online math tutor, and self-study for an AP exam at the moment with some AoPS classes and a university symphony.</p>

<p>The reason he’s auditing is that he ran out of math and physics classes at the CC last year. He approached professor and we were willing to pay but prof invited him to audit. He got the highest score in the class for first semester; it’s a good, challenging class (Classical electromagnetism). Professor asked him if he’d like to do optics research in the summer and if junior doesn’t get into RSI (really unlikely!), it would be a fantastic opportunity as uni is minutes away by trolley.</p>

<p>UCSD is farther away but I think he’ll take at least 1-2 classes there in his senior year because administratively, they’re easier to work with.</p>

<p>Junior’s taken 3 SAT II: 800 physics 760 math II (took both in 8th grade, will take math again in May and I can assume an 800), and waiting on Lit score to come next week. (He felt good about it) I’d like to see one more SAT II in chem in the fall before he applies; we’ll see how motivated he is. He’s got 4 APs, all 5s and 1 4, and will take 2-4 more (one this spring).</p>

<p>I guess I’m not sure what school is a “likely to afford” except state uni. and maybe UCSD, though costs are over 12K per year, but I know they do offer scholarships and I can assume these would actually take off some of the COA. So you think he should apply to state uni? I graduated from there and it ain’t great, though he loves his physics prof (though not the guy who’s subbing while prof’s on leave since his wife had a baby!).</p>

<p>The crazy thing about UCs and state uni is that they are very “in the box” and homeschooling isn’t. I had a long conversation with a admissions guy at UCSD as junior was contemplating applying early this past fall. Even though he said junior was more prepared than most applicants, he admitted that because of the uncoventional nature of his education, he could be turned down; still, he encouraged him to apply and to appeal if there was some sort of glitch and he didn’t get in. It was an interesting conversation. He just wanted to make sure we didn’t sit around our living room and homeschool-that was kind of funny. :-)</p>

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<p>Several thoughts:</p>

<p>Don’t rule out colleges on the East Coast. Some of them are very generous. And your kid may not come home all that often so the travel costs may not be bad. (Don’t mean to scare you here, but many kids rarely come home for weekends even if they are fifteen minutes away). </p>

<p>Get the roof done. Now. We faced the same challenge and got the roof done when S1 was a high school sophomore. It emptied out our savings (good for Fafsa) but it also gave us great sense of relief. At least we had a roof over our heads. I hate to tell you this, but you are about to be seriously poor in day to day living money. Kids in college are expensive, even if they are NMF. Doing the roof will prevent you from having to pay thousands more in structural repair later. Save the receipts/construction loan info and submit it to fin aid departments to document that you have had unusual but unavoidable expenses (ditto furnace or other vital work). </p>

<p>We had one NMF and he looked at Arizona State. I understand U of Arizona and U Tulsa are all very generous – but the kid wasn’t excited about the campus or program (they have a lot to offer – it was more a climate difference that didn’t appeal). </p>

<p>It’s no good trying to force a kid into an unappealing program just because parent wants to save the maximum amount of bucks (I cringe when a parent insists on two years at a CC when the student clearly wants to do something different. Community Colleges can be fantastic and shrewd choices but only when the student is keen on that path). </p>

<p>See you at the Goodwill racks! (Where I find all my fashion!)</p>

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<p>A couple of things here. If the money is in Junior’s name, you can spend it for his benefit but you can’t legally just transfer it from a custodial account to a parent account. You can however transfer it from a custodial account to a student-owned 529.</p>

<p>If the money is in a 529 account, what are you concerned about that he might spend it on? 529 money can only be spent on qualified higher education expenses. It’s the best place to park student-owned cash for a number of reasons (tax deductible earnings, is assessed at the favorable parent rate for FAFSA, might even return more than a .03 percent savings account, etc.) </p>

<p>Sounds like Junior is a smart cookie :slight_smile: He’ll have a lot of great options, some of which will be affordable to your family. One thing about the publics in California is that the cost of attendance can easily be lowered by having the student live off campus. Dorm fees and meals are very expensive, especially when compared with off-campus living in relatively low-cost cities such as San Luis and Isla Vista. On the other hand, there will be the inevitable increases in tuition.</p>

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<p>Yeah, Olymom! We have an awesome upscale Goodwill. Found a great anniversary dress or $4 last year–sweet!</p>

<p>Junior thinks he’d be fine living in cold weather, so we are keeping the east coast in the picture.</p>

<p>We are hoping to get the roof done with the tax refund but we’re waiting for the quote. So you can actually show schools this kind of stuff and it might help with financial decisions? </p>

<p>Yes, I couldn’t bring myself to have junior look at ASU (though I’ve heard great things about Barrett honors college) or U of A. I grew up there and know the heat can be stifling.</p>

<p>Vballmom, I was specifically thinking about juior’s savings account, which is called a minor account. He has a separate account number but I can transfer money into our accounts anytime and we do that each month for costs such as car insurance, etc. That’s why I was thinking I could keep his account balance low, move his funds into one of the existing savings accounts (we have one that’s called “homeschool” that has about $10 in it and we could use that for junior). Does that make sense?</p>

<p>Maybe we can put 2K in the 529 and leave about $6-700 in the savings, knowing he’ll be adding to it with his income. Does that sound sensible? And then maybe at the end of the year, before we fill out fafsa, we can move more of it (if there’s any that he’s not spent) into the 529.</p>

<p>Junior’s a pretty interesting kid with lots of energy to expend on his various interests but he could still goof up in the next year-he is a teen… =:-O</p>

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<p>There’s no need to do all this fund transferring if your son is a high school junior. What matters is the snapshot of all your accounts (parent + student) at the time you fill out FAFSA, which would be January 2012. So just keep the cash where it needs to be, but if you have extra cash then by all means set up a 529 for your son. Don’t move any of your son’s money into the grandparents’ 529. He should open his own 529 with his money.</p>

<p>As an aside, having grandparents open a 529 for the benefit of the grandkids is one of the few FAFSA loopholes that still exist; grandparent-owned 529s are not reported at all on FAFSA.</p>

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<p>**The UCs are AWFUL at giving need-based aid **to those whose income and EFCs are that “high”. UCs are only really good at giving aid to lowish income folks. They’ve set the system up that really only those who have incomes under $70k or low EFCs can get “free money”. The gap would likely be larger at a UC. However, it wouldn’t hurt to try a few UCs in case you get a big Regents at the ones that give BIG Regents. </p>

<p>*I mean, it sure seems like there’s no feasable way to graduate debt free even from an Ivy, unless junior comes up with one of those merits that’s full ride + room and board. Maybe we need to wrap our heads around the fact that there will be some moderate loans for junior.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>There are no full-ride merit scholarships for ivies. The ivies don’t give merit scholarships (I don’t think Stanford or MIT do either). </p>

<p>Junior will NOT be able to borrow more than the federal amounts…</p>

<p>5500 frosh
6500 soph
7500 jr
7500 sr</p>

<p>Any HIGHER amounts would have to be taken out by YOU or co-signed by you (which I don’t advise).</p>

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<p>and UMR status</p>

<p>What is that?</p>

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<p>My guess is they meant URM…I believe this student from an Hispanic family (from reading other threads…am I right OP?).</p>

<p>I believe your student has excellent stats and much to bring to the college application table. However, that has nothing to do with NEED BASED aid (which is all you will see at those Ivies and similarly competitive schools). So…you might need to target schools where merit aid is significant if reducing your costs is a high priority.</p>

<p>Have you considered Stanford? Yes, a very difficult admit, but probably has everything your student is looking for and their need based aid is extremely generous. Your costs there, if your income is as you state…$80,000 a year or so…would probably be in the ballpark of what you want to spend. Of course the challenge is being admitted buy this student would be in the mix for competitiveness, one would think.</p>

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<p>Yes, UMR means under represented minority. Junior is 1/2 Puerto Rican, which is Hispanic in many places, though apparently on the PSAT, one can actually select PR.</p>

<p>Mom2college kids, I did check out the income limits on the UCs and saw that under 70K, you’re good to go. Since we’re over that limit, junior would have to get some Regents scholarships to reduce the EFC. This is why UCSD is the only one on the list since there’d be no room and board costs.</p>

<p>Right-I do realize that Ivies don’t give merit aid. I was just combining thoughts into one sentence: either Ivies or schools that give great merit aid seems to be the partial solution.</p>

<p>I did the EFC calculator for Princeton last night and it had our EFC pretty low, somewhere around 5-6K and then junior would be expected to have about $1,500 or so. If that was really true, that would be incredible. (Well, first you have to get in, right??) </p>

<p>Thumper1, yes, Stanford has been a school I’d like to see Junior consider but he hasn’t shown an interest. It’s a tough school to figure out. Clearly, it’s the absolute tops for academics but I’m not sure how faith friendly it is (though I know the Hoover Institute is on campus, so that must draw some folks of faith). Also, it seems it really looks for world class athletes. Junior doesn’t even think he’ll play baseball in college, at least not at the intercollegiate level. It would be good for junior to visit this summer. He’s got an aunt who works for UC Berekely and could stay with her (though I guess that’s kind of far, huh?).</p>

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<p>Mom2collegekids,</p>

<p>What kind of interest rates on on these student loans? What are they called, Stafford? </p>

<p>I just really hope junior will be able to work 8-15 hours a week like he does now, so he won’t need to borrow much and we won’t need to borrow much. I came out with maybe 2-3K worth of loans after graduate school (which I never finished) and then some of those loans were forgiven because I taught in special education…but that was back in the dark ages when college didn’t cost an arm and a leg…and a torso and a trunk and a head.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure what you mean by “junior will be expected to have about $1500 or so”…your EFC is for ONE year…not all four. Your contribution would be $6000 per YEAR. Did you use a calculator ON Princeton’s website? If not, what you got would be an estimate ONLY…remember that in addition to the FAFSA, Princeton has its own financial aid form that asks questions very similar to the Profile.</p>

<p>Most college campuses have organized religious organizations on the campuses. This is true for Stanford and most other larger schools. If you have “faith friendly” as a top criteria, have you considered colleges that are affiliated either with your own faith or a compatible one? </p>

<p>For example, Pepperdine might be a consideration. Or perhaps one of the Jesuit schools in CA (your guy might garner some significant merit aid at one of those schools).</p>

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<p>* Since we’re over that limit, junior would have to get some Regents scholarships to reduce the EFC. This is why UCSD is the only one on the list since there’d be no room and board costs.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>the Regents would go towards “need”, not EFC. So, you’d still be short the same EFC.</p>

<p>Again, merit scholarships go towards “need” first, then if they’re large enough, they go towards EFC. I don’t think Regents is that big. COA for UCs is around $30k, so Regents wouldn’t be big enough to reduce EFC.</p>

<p>Princeton last night and it had our EFC pretty low, somewhere around 5-6K and then junior would be expected to have about $1,500 or so.</p>

<p>That’s per year…and I think that’s “summer earnings” right? He may also have work study that will contribute towards his “need.” If he can’t find a work-study job, then that will also be a shortfall. He could convert that to a loan since I don’t think Princeton puts loans in FA packages.</p>

<p>Yes, UMR means under represented minority.</p>

<p>Just to clarify…it’s URM…not UMR.</p>

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<p>I suggest you & junior check out Vanderbilt. My D is a senior there, and she has found much happiness as a “not-so-stereotypical” Vandy student. She says the student body is quickly becoming more diverse, and this is thanks in great part to some wonderful merit money and excellent financial aid. We have found the school to be more than generous. This is a top-notch school that you may find to be a bargain in your situation.</p>

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<p>Yes, you absolutely can approach a fin aid department when you have unusual expenses. However, you cannot be general. You have to be specific. Instead of saying “We had a lot of home repairs in 2011” you have to say “We spent $9,000 on a roof replacement and $4,500 on furnace work and copies of the receipts are enclosed.”</p>

<p>Keep in mind that the fin aid does not care, one whit, how much you have in car payments or how much you owe on credit cards. Those are your problems. But unusual expenses on housing or medical things can be evaluated – with each scenario being unique (ie, what your sister got has nothing to do with your evaluation).</p>

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<p>Um, yeah, I knew it was URM, not UMR. Good thing it’s not me who’s applying to college. Sheesh.</p>

<p>Kelsmom, junior has definitely expressed an interest in Vanderbilt. Thanks for the positive feedback. His top two reach schools at the moment are Princeton and Vanderbilt. Harvard has some absolutely fascinating sounding classes in math, physics, and statistics and the Boston area is very exciting, but we know nothing more about it. Univ. of Texas, Dallas, has always been on the list because of the chess program and the location since we know several families in the area. Junior’s been to both Harvey Mudd and Caltech and prefers the campus of Harvey Mudd at this time. He visited U of Chicago last year and felt the atmosphere was too cold and distant. He’s been to Pittsburgh on a tour and loved the city but CMU seems not offer much aid. It takes a lot of time to get to know one college and since we’re visiting Princeton and we know people there, and our pastor and his wife graduated from there, we’ve focued on it. We need to get more info on Penn this month, too.</p>

<p>So, yeah, I went to the Princeton website and used their calculator and yes, junior’s portion was the summer job expected contribution. I have been told if he really markets himself, he can do math tutoring on most any campus. Since he now has almost a year’s experience tutoring with a company and privately, I am hopeful that will be a marketable skill for him. Teaching violin will be harder to do away from home, I think.</p>

<p>Mom2collegekids, what I was thinking is this: Say it will cost 13K for classes and books (that’s just an arbitrary number). Since our income is over 70K, we’ll be expected to pay all of that. I was thinking, then, if junior gets, say, 5K worth of Regents Scholarships, then we’d be on the hook for 8K. Then, if junior got this 6K scholarship through dad’s work, we’d be on the hook for 2K. So, is that correct thinking? That’s why UCSD looks doable if junior can get merit and outside scholarships.</p>

<p>Thumper1, I did look at Pepperdine a while back but it’s sooo expensive and the programs in science and math are eh. Junior visited Taylor univ. last year as a sophomore, stayed overnight and loved the kids he met and the staff. However, it’s the same challenge-he sat in on a junior level math class, differential equations, and he’s already finished that. They did say they could design small classes for advanced students and maybe that’s true. However, it does seem that the colleges that are either highly selective or have graduate studies in the sciences might be better fits. To illustrate using Princeton again, we are planning on meeting with some folks from the Evangelical Fellowship which we’re there. The campus doesn’t need to be faith based; it just needs to have a strong support system and from what we gather in talking to various people, Princeton and Penn both have this and it seems that Harvard and Rice have it, as well. Oh, but junior is also interested in becoming fluent in Arabic, so he would like a campus that he can get a good class in that, as well.</p>

<p>I know we haven’t exhausted all the colleges by a long shot but certain ones keep coming to the forefront. Junior’s been reading up on various colleges and our list is an evolving one. Some schools sounded so interesting such as LeHigh and Rose-Hulman (I think that’s right) but they don’t have enough opportunities for scholarships and students are left with a lot of debt out of these schools. So, we’ve tried to compile a list of schools that match junior’s interests and might also give us the chance at as little debt as possible (but it sounds like no debt is impossible unless junior somehow gets a full ride merit somewhere).</p>

<p>Olymom, <em>thank-you</em> for the tip! We will definitely keep receipts for our home repairs as well as the medical bills.</p>

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<p>Actually I’m not sure most colleges would consider these extenuating expenses UNLESS they were caused by some natural disaster like a hurricane or the like, or perhaps a fire and no insurance to cover the costs of repairs. Roof replacements and furnace work are typical maintenance items for home owners.</p>