Final decision Caltech or Ivy - suggestions/answers ?

<p>My S has got some good offers, and some not so good (financially speaking). He has been accepted at MIT, Princeton, Rice, Caltech & WashU. He has a full tuition offer at Caltech, and about half tuition at Rice. The nominal couple of thousand dollars at Princeton and none at MIT. He is hoping to get at least a half tuition if not full at WashU (St. Louis).
We do not qualify for any need based aid, as you can guess. Going to MIT or Princeton without any help will mean that we (parents) take out 30K loan each year and reduce our current savings level. We have a younger child who will just enter college in 6 years. My S plans to go to grad school for a PhD (this will probably happen). It would be foolish to have him take out a massive loan, especially as he does not plan to get a job right after his 4 year degree. At the same time we don't feel we can afford to take a parent loan and not be able to save for retirement or for our second child's college. We feel we can afford upto 20K a year from our current income and savings. </p>

<p>S feels he would like to go to MIT, esp as he hears Caltech is TOO hard (one can either get good grades, socialize or sleep, at best 2 are possible, not all three). He is a hard worker (national level research at Siemens, intel etc), but has been in that mode the last couple of years at his current high school, so I can empathize with him a bit. </p>

<p>At the same time, he is still open to try out Caltech by going to the frosh weekend, etc. From a practical viewpoint it would make most sense for him to go to Caltech(big name, least expense, etc), especially as he plans to go to grad school. But MIT/Princeton are top notch and reportedly more social life than Caltech. Unfortunately he has not been able to go to the Frosh weekend for Rice. He is favorable to WashU as well, but feels their department in his planned major is not the best among his accepted colleges. </p>

<p>I apologize for this long post, but would like your thoughts and experiences factoring in the importance of cost, prestige, social life, grad school etc. My husband and I have not been through the college system in the US. so this is very hard for us to figure out and help guide him. Most of his information is from peers etc, who seem to be pretty well off ( or will probably get good need based aid), so Ivy costs are not an issue.
Thanks!</p>

<p>The grades/socialize/sleep quandry is an issue at many top engineering schools, not just Cal Tech. I'm sure that MIT is very similar in terms of workload. Based on your son's school acceptances, he seems extremely bright and should not fear CalTech because it is too hard. If they are willing to give him a full ride scholarship, they must view him to be at the top of their class. If so, I'm sure he can handle the workload.</p>

<p>Have you considered faxing the Catlech offer to his top choice and mentioning that it is his top choice and is there any way to improve the offer?</p>

<p>Take the full ride at Caltech or Wash U (if they give you a full ride)</p>

<p>Sorry, I may be missing this information, but does your son know exactly what he wants to study?</p>

<p>Yes, he wants to focus on Math and perhaps double major in theoretical computer science.</p>

<p>Marite, I've been told that telling an ivy that 'another college' is offering xx is not going to help. It might hurt.. have you heard otherwise?</p>

<p>Rocketman: you're in the middle stages of the thinking process that many parents and students go through at this time of the year.</p>

<p>I'm not in any position to suggest to you how much money you can or should afford to spend on this S's college education, nor are any of us here on these boards. However, first note that in your budgeting you should expect college costs to increase at least 5-7% per year, on the average.</p>

<p>Caltech and MIT are similar enough schools that in my opinion normally a full tuition offer at one and no aid at the other should settle the question between them, unless one offers a unique program and the other offers nothing in that subject. MIT's location in Cambridge is better than Caltech's in Pasadena but that may not be sufficient to be worth the extra $ 30-35,000 per year to attend MIT (or Princeton) And if he continues his current interest, grad school at these might be an option.</p>

<p>Rice is another matter, however. If your son decides, after a semester or two of college-level engineering work, that engineering is not for him after all, he might not be happy with the course in non-science subjects at Caltech or MIT, and may need to transfer whereas Rice (and WashU) offer good quality non-engineering options without transferring. If that is something to take seriously, and he has not visited Rice (or WashU), I would strongly suggest a visit this month (doesn't have to be on the special frosh weekend) so that he can get a feel for the school(s).</p>

<p>Telling Princeton of caltech's offer will not help as they don't give merit money and if MIT does not, it won't help there either. With his other acceptances, WashU will very probably give a free ride. If he doesn't want intense and money is an issue, that will be your best deal.</p>

<p>zagat is correct, an Ivy does not give merit money and hence will not "compete" on that basis. However, if there is need based money or loans involved, they will re-look at their offer if another Ivy or comparable school calculates the need to be different than their calculation.</p>

<p>I know of some applicants who received more aid after faxing offers from competing schools. But they may have qualified for finaid, and the colleges upped their offer under the pretext that they had recalculated need. It does not hurt to give it a try.</p>

<p>DD is at Rice and is loving it. I've posted so much about it that I feel redundant saying stuff again! At Rice there is still a healthy dose of play and fun, campus is beautiful, kids are wacky and dedicated to study, and many, many double major, change majors midstream, study abroad etc. It's a full close-knit campus life. I hope your son gets a chance to check it out in person. PM me if you have any specific questions.</p>

<p>We experienced a very similar situation last year. Caltech offered significant money, MIT did not. I can tell you that we agonized over the decision for several weeks. Our son visited both campuses. Went to the prefrosh programs on both campuses. He advised us that if we wanted him to go to Caltech that he would. We asked him to be honest and tell us how he felt about both campuses. It came down to non-academic issues, dorms, student body, Boston. All things being equal, he wanted to go to school outside of California where we have lived for 13 years. We "rationalized" our decision by determining that he would fare better academically someplace where he wanted to be. My wife got a better paying job, I got a second part time job and we can afford to do this without incurring huge loans but it is slightly painful. If we had to incur huge loans I think that the decision would be different. We are still happy with our decision and our son is thriving in that environment. For others, "results may vary". If your son was admitted to Caltech and MIT, he will do well at either placed. Good luck in your decision.</p>

<p>Note that while you can only afford $20k/year, tuition and room and board is likely to increase 5-7% a year each year your son is in school. Make sure to take that into account when figuring.</p>

<p>MIT (and Princeton) are essentially telling you that you can afford full freight. Consider that a scary thought for when your next one is coming along. (I would.)</p>

<p>Not so. We got zip when our first was in college, decent $ for both when two were enrolled. However, with that kind of offer from a school of the caliber of Caltech it seems to me that unless S has his heart set on a liberal arts school, it would be hard to turn down. I can't believe MIT is that much less stressful. In fact, I've read quite a bit to suggest that that's definitely not the case. A very big congratulations to your son!</p>

<p>mini, the OP said they don't qualify for any need-based financial aid,which leads me to conclude (perhaps incorrectly) that they did not apply for any (my family did not apply for any, since I'm sure we'd be laughed at if we had). MIT does not offer merit aid, so they aren't saying anything about whether the OP can afford full freight or not.</p>

<p>(Aside: MIT is very hard work and can be stressful for some, but the MIT admissions folks and all the administrators stress that a student would not have been admitted if they couldn't handle the work. Having spent the last 3 days at MIT, I've got to say I'm far more impressed than I thought with the support services and social life here. But that's OT, sorry...!)</p>

<p>I really don't think Caltech's workload is appreciably different from MIT's. Campus life, etc., yes, very different. If he has serious misgivings about his social life there, I'd take that seriously, but from an academic viewpoint, a full ride at Caltech is an unbelievable deal, and one I wouldn't turn down lightly.</p>

<p>"mini, the OP said they don't qualify for any need-based financial aid,which leads me to conclude (perhaps incorrectly) that they did not apply for any"</p>

<p>Well, they couldn't have received several thousand from Princeton without applying. In other words, Princeton said they could afford the rest.
"
Not so. We got zip when our first was in college, decent $ for both when two were enrolled."</p>

<p>The younger child will enter college in 6 years, after the older one graduates. Two will never be enrolled at the same time.</p>

<p>I have no idea what your true financial status is, or your prospects. I would just be careful about sacrificing the second one's prospects for the first, especially when the place where the largest offer is from is also arguably the best school. Good luck on working it out!</p>

<p>Congrats to your child on these excellent admissions. You must be thrilled. </p>

<p>I am a bit confused. If you can only provide $20K, why not apply for financial aid? What was your plan for paying for the difference if no merit aid was forthcoming?</p>

<p>Those questions answered I have a few thoughts. First, to think that MIT will somehow be less work (especially in Physics and Computer science) than Caltech is ludicrous. MIT has more diversity, it is in a location with more diversions, it is not less work. Check out the MIT board and the postings by Sakky...</p>

<p>I would be very surprised if your child cannot handle the work at all these schools. These were not single, spurious admissions. Your child is clearly capable and can be successful anywhere. But, that doesn't mean your child does not have preferences! </p>

<p>Your child is at the age of understanding that with choices and privileges come responsibilities. If your child chooses not to take the generous offers at Caltech or Rice, there should be some financial responsibility for your child. I mean, it is not as if you are expecting him to go to Siberia or something...these are highly desirable and wonderful schools!!! </p>

<p>If the choices were MIT and no grant and a second rate state school free I would be the first to jump on the 'MIT is worth it' bandwagon. A few years ago I thought a boy crazy for turning down MIT for a free honors program at a 2nd tier school. He was missing out on the tremendous diverse, peer stimulation that is such a part of a rich college experience...That is simply not your situation.</p>

<p>Hi. I'm a Caltech student, a math major, and am also on the admissions committee. I've thought about this precise question a lot and advised a lot of people about it, so I'll try to offer what help I can.</p>

<p>Especially if your interests are math/CS, I don't think there's a enough of a difficulty disparity between Caltech and MIT (or insert Ivy here) to justify choosing based on that. Quite a few people have said that already, but maybe I can provide another reason from firsthand experience: namely that the disparity depends on who you are. Biologists at Caltech tend to find the math core a little overwhelming sometimes (this is the sense in which Caltech is "harder" -- the minimal core requirements for EVERYONE are harder). At MIT, you don't have to take as many math courses if you don't want to. But mathematicians (especially on the theoretical track) would basically be taking the same things in both places to fulfill the math major requirements. And while I've argued before that Caltech might still be in some ways somewhat more demanding, there are also compensating factors. You can do your hard sets in January in the California sun, which is, for some, less hard/sad than doing them in the bleak Boston winter. I like snow, by the way, so this doesn't apply to me :-).</p>

<p>As far as social life goes, I can't do better on this question than advising you to come to prefrosh weekend and see for yourself. Some people immediately fall in love with how personal and tight-knit the houses are, even taking into account the "nerdiness" of their inhabitants. Others would prefer to feel like part of a much larger university, even if some of its parts are more impersonal (obviously there are very close-knit groups at MIT, too, though).</p>

<p>A pretty typical reason that people don't like it here after visiting, if they don't, especially those who are of the more quiet and reserved type, is how crazy Caltech students act sometimes to let off steam. We have silly dinner rituals, absurd pranks, etc. Some would definitely like a more usual and "respectable" environment, in a more typical dorm. When I came for prefrosh weekend, I expected to find people to be very bookish and withdrawn, but was a little jarred by how much the opposite were true -- they were a little <em>too</em> much fun for me, at least then. It sounds like your son might enjoy the non-academic side though. To be honest, I personally have never heard a person decide not to come to Caltech because it's too reserved or quiet or bookish upon inspection. (No promises that it's never happened.) As I said, whether you enjoy it or not, whether you would be active in your house, depends on your personality.</p>

<p>That's true of almost all the other "social" issues. Some people adore a given situation, others hate it, and there's no way to predict what will happen to you. The only way to guage whether Caltech "fits" well with you non-academically is to come and immerse yourself in it for a while. And you're certainly planning to do that, which is great.</p>

<p>But I will give you one piece of honest advice. You should go with your gut. Don't let the money make the decision if you visit here and your heart's just not in it. You'll be thinking "what if" forever. On the other hand, don't let a fear of the work pull you back if you come here and enjoy it. Otherwise, you might realize later that your worries were unjustified and you'll be sad about not making the choice that would have made you happy.</p>

<p>One more thing. If you come, as a scholarship recipient, you'll be part of a small, academically distinguished group. Whether that's fair or not, it carries weight with professors, etc., so Axlines have tended to have access to their pick of top labs to start research experiences in. Since MIT doesn't offer merit scholarships as far as I know, you won't have that initial leg up, though obviously you can earn it by being extraordinary.</p>

<p>More generally, especially in theoretical work (and even more especially in math), Caltech students have unmatched access to undergraduate research. It's rare and hard to be able to do a non-experimental project at other places, even the very top places. Labs have deficits of undergraduate workers, not theorists, since at this age almost nobody is capable of being more useful as a theorist than as a coder / experimentalist. It's just the truth. Getting a theoretical project is essentially a gift, an opportunity to play mathematician for a summer on the university's tab. I've done so and it's great fun. Caltech, being more overfunded per student than other places, can afford to give out more such gifts than other places.</p>

<p>So, as I mentioned, my advice is be aware of the actual distinctions between the places, then come and try to have an open-minded look and listen to your gut. Then do what feels right.</p>

<p>(Oh, by the way. Caltech/MIT is a dilemma. {MIT or Caltech} /WashU is not. My unqualified advice is to remove WashU from consideration, since it doesn't hold a candle in essentially and respect to either of the other schools in the areas your son is interested in.)</p>