Final Parting Thoughts about Columbia - Best of luck everyone.

<p>Some of you may have seen my other thread, in which I, perhaps a bit excessively denigrated my experience here. The following is an exchange between me and someone on the thread who is a Columbia advocate. Unlike the hyperbole on both sides, my response here reflects how I rationally feel. I encourage everyone, prospective students, current students, alumni, administrators to read it - it is only my hope that it provides you some value. This will be my last post on College Confidential, after 7 years. Best of luck to all Columbians, past, present, and future!</p>

<p>"Thank you for the thoughtful reply.</p>

<p>After your explanation, I see better where you are coming from. To an extent, I fully empathize. If what is so conspicuously flawed with this institution is remedied, I suppose many would feel better about our choice of attending, and ultimately the school may be able to enter into a period of a virtuous cycle where more engaged students creates a more engaged community, providing alumni with a more satisfactory experience that leads to more donations, better faculty resources, larger endowment, higher rankings, and perhaps one day, Columbia may be able to rejoin he "Holy Trinity" that it was once a part of.</p>

<p>Before I say anything else, please believe me when I say I was the biggest champion of Columbia University. In part, I grew up engaged with the campus (as both my parents are faculty), and I never imagined attending anywhere else. I first found the Owl on Alma Mater when I was 9 (unfortunately won't be graduating Valedictorian), et cetera. I spent three years of high school, accumulating 1500 posts, like you, trying to convince other people why they should call Columbia their home. I still remember the day I was accepted - it was the happiest day of my life.</p>

<p>The stem of my frustration lies exactly in the disparity between what was promised, and what was delivered. In place of promises of sitting around the fireside with Professors lecturing students about the Classics, I was one among hundreds in huge lecture halls where I effectively learned the content myself. In place of nurturing advisors which were promised, I got a Dean who to this day does not know my name (though I make an effort two see him twice a semester), and who clearly has no idea as to how I should approach my major (if I needed to check the Bulletin, I could do it myself). Instead of the promises of the "traditions and school pride", I found myself huddled, once a year on a cold December night, for approximately one hour watching the Tree Lighting Ceremony - one of the only campus wide events.</p>

<p>The magnitude of my bitterness stems from the fact that I was over-promised, and Columbia under-delivered. I extracted maximum value from this Institution - because that was the only thing I was able to receive. I will leave Columbia with some true friends, a few job offers, and a prestigious degree. But I gave up four of the most impressionable years of my life, in which I desperately wanted to belong to a community (not just make friends), before I get become embittered by the cold-harsh realities of the world. Yes, I wanted to be coddled. Yes, I wanted to live in a bubble - surrounded by people who zealously loved this institution as much as I did. And yes, call it brain-washed or what not - I wanted to be like the Yalies, who identify so much with their Institution that many have banners of the slogan, "For God, for Country, for Yale" hanging on their office walls. I wanted that to be Columbia. And, as you very well know, that is not what any of us received.</p>

<p>My point is here - instead of over-promising the next generation, present them with an accurate picture of what Columbia is. Otherwise, I believe you run the risk of perpetuating the cycle further - engendering disillusion and engendering bitterness and discontent among alumni.</p>

<p>Columbia is what She is. She is not Harvard, not Yale, and not Princeton, and I believe there are deep structural deficiencies within the system. Maybe - this - is, and has always been Columbia's "culture". </p>

<p>Despite my bitterness, Columbia is now a part of me. It equipped me with the skills to engage the real world - perhaps exposing me to her harsh realities earlier than I would have liked. But Columbia does not define me - and it should not define you. Neither of us should feel ashamed of our decision to come to Columbia - but neither should we mindlessly rationalize it. We must simply accept it, and look forward. </p>

<p>Columbia University has, and will always be among the greatest research universities in the world. However, it was not, is not, and will likely never be the undergraduate university experience that defines some of our Ivy peers. This is both the blessing, and curse, of being situated in the middle of New York City."</p>

<p>I’m sorry that you apparently made the wrong choice in electing to attend Columbia. Perhaps your choice was not really a choice, if both your parents are faculty and you spent your youth dreaming about Columbia. You seem to have accepted what you perceive as the pluses and minuses of the institution, although there seems to be an undercurrent of anger or resentment.</p>

<p>For those thinking about attending Columbia, I encourage you to keep in mind that truazn’s point of view, although valid, is not universal. My own son is ecstatic at Columbia. His path toward selecting Columbia was far different from truazn’s, and the choices he made upon arrival also apparently were quite different.</p>

<p>My son never set foot on the Columbia campus until spring of his high school junior year, and he knows no one out here in the boonies where he grew up who attended Columbia. He spent a total of eight days of his life in New York before moving into his dorm. He quickly joined a fraternity, joined a sports club, and worked at making good friends in his dorm. Maybe he was lucky, or maybe he just works hard at enjoying student life at Columbia. I don’t know, but I know he’s happy.</p>

<p>The point is simply that one cannot generalize about a 6,000-person community. Everyone within the community makes his or her own path.</p>

<p>you’re right…columbia is not harvard or yale or princeton. it’s columbia. and that’s why i’m ed’ing there</p>

<p>^ Well said, hahvad</p>

<p>@Hahvad: Stole my thought put of my mind.</p>

<p>@OP: Indeed. You said it yourself, “Columbia is not Harvard. Columbia is not Yale”</p>

<p>That’s exactly many of us EDers are applying there.</p>

<p>You fail to recognize that the different people have different priorities. Some people value the campus community over anything else. Some people have it on the bottom
of their list.</p>

<p>So yes, your experience is not universal. And is biased due to your priorities.</p>

<p>BTW, you may say that this is because her “job is to sell me Columbia” or whatnot, but I had asked my Columbia interviewer questions about the community life. She said that it’s not cliquey. (You might find cliques here and there) She also said her Columbia experience was great. She had just graduated this past may. And she said it with am honest voice. </p>

<p>So, your opinion once again is not universal.</p>

<p>i asked my alumna interviewer specifically about the lack of community that you resent (paraphrased, of course):</p>

<p>me: “i’ve heard some people complain that because of columbia’s position in new york, it lacks a cohesive community. did you find this to be true?”
her: “not at all. i’ve heard that complaint a lot regarding nyu because it doesn’t have a campus, but no, i actually found exactly the opposite. there were always things to do on campus, always people to hang out with and talk to. in some ways this is a problem in the opposite direction, because you always had to find a way to detach yourself from this and do your work”</p>

<p>Yeah, my interviewer said there were lots of distractions from schoolwork at Columbia, so you really had to stay focused. She said she spent way too much time in NYC and not enough time actually studying. :P</p>

<p>my interviewer talked about how dangerous nyc was =.= lmao</p>

<p>I will simply echo truazn’s point. I graduated 2 years ago from Columbia and there’s no question that I was somewhat dissatisfied with my experience.</p>

<p>pbr- your son probably has a nice world he’s created for himself. I find it hard to believe, however, that he wouldn’t have enjoyed Yale or Dartmouth even more.</p>

<p>I don’t know…I chose Columbia specifically because I can’t stand that isolated, small school atmosphere. I love the feeling of being one in many, of not being “known” or having a reputation…I love the city and to me that is the #1 thing on my list after quality of an education - to be near a city. If I don’t get into Columbia, I’m applying to UC Berkeley, UCLA, UPenn, UChicago, and NYU…all situated close to a major city. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t say it is impossible to prefer Columbia over Yale or Dartmouth. I for one will NOT be applying to Yale, Princeton, or any of the other ivy leagues (except UPenn) because I have absolutely no interest in that kind of an environment.</p>

<p>It’s impossible to know whether one would have enjoyed school x more than one’s alma mater, unless (like slipper) one transfers. By definition, however, the overwhelming majority of transfers are going to enjoy the second school more, given that the pain experienced at the first school must have been fairly severe to overcome the inertia of simply staying put. (I also transferred colleges.)</p>

<p>In my son’s case, I don’t think he would enjoy Yale or Dartmouth more. He wouldn’t have his interesting part-time job, which includes cross-country business trips. He wouldn’t have the opportunity to exploit the urban experiences available in NYC to the extent he has.</p>

<p>I find it interesting that his friends at Yale, Brown, and other east coast schools frequently travel to visit other cities on weekends. Except for away sports events, my son has never left NYC on weekends; he simply has too many social engagements on campus or in the city he is loath to miss.</p>

<p>agreed with pbr - </p>

<p>i am a city kid. not because i grew up in a city, but it just makes most sense for me to be in one. and that is something that i fell in love with being at columbia, and feeling as if that kind of life was for me. i couldn’t imagine going to yale or dartmouth or ‘the farm’ not because they aren’t great schools, just not great for me. </p>

<p>i think the point here of folks defending columbia is not to say that truazn or alma’s experiences are not valid points, indeed they bring up problems with columbia. but they aren’t the only experience, and it should definitely not rise to the point where we should say the student should’ve chosen another school instead.</p>

<p>that kind of statement is petty and not helpful. let the student decide by running a ‘positive’ campaign as one might call it.</p>

<p>i love columbia, and i don’t think i missed out on anything because i feel i lived out the potential at the school i chose.</p>