Final question before final decision on which college

Parents Forum
1

<p>My son is now 90% sure that he will choose U. Md. Honors program, Govt&Politics, and is intrigued by the possiblity of the joint public policy masters.... but none of us are tied to expectations of a particular major or outcome. I was really, really impressed by the school, department and honors presentation yesterday. Personally, I hated the campus... I find the brick/federal architecture boring (even the newly built student center if fakey old fashioned!) but that is personal, and I won't be attending the school, my son will! </p>

<p>The school he is alternatively considering is Oberlin... of all the LAC's he applied to, the one he thinks best in math and science as well as social sciences. At this time he has no idea if he wants to go to grad school... he is thinking of public interest law, or public policy, or joining the peace corps, or psychology.... or something he hasn't even thought of yet.</p>

<p>I feel that now I know how to compare the pros and cons of the schools and locations. Here is my question:</p>

<p>Seriously, let's assume we can "afford" to pay for the private school ... in the sense of the FAFSA and the CSS. For instance, for my younger son's private school (special needs, a "mere" $24,000) we take out a yearly loan so that we make monthly payments over 12 months (which we eke out).</p>

<p>So, do schools require anything more than the modest, say, $600 deposit they request? (that's all I seem to see on the website.) Then I go to a bank and ask for a Plus loan for $43,000 over a 10 year term, and then again the next year, and the following year and then the following year, and after 4 years I have about $180,000 in Plus loans to be paid back over 10 years? Do they give it to you no matter what your income is? What if you lose your job in the meantime? Do they use the same loan/debt ratios as any other bank?
(OK, later tonight I will look this all up!!!!!! but any quick thoughts....) What if you need long term care before the college loans are paid off!!!!</p>

<p>I did about 6 months of research to buy an $18,000 car and decide on where to take out a 3 year loan (the credit union!) at what interest rate... and I have to make this darn life changing college and finance decision with so little information....</p>

<p>Every darn HS meeting we go to is all about financial aid and scholarships... every financial planning meeting we go to is all about assets.... </p>

<p>We may just choose Md. because I give up! ;)</p>

<p>(really, no need to argue over that part of the decision... Md. will be fine, but Oberlin would be great as well, we just want to be informed and feel good at the end that the decision was as best as it could be....)</p>

2

<p>Have you already spoken to Oberlin about your special circumstances? Can you pay any of the Oberlin fees out of current income. How much can your son contribute? Md. sounds good if the answer to these questions are: yes, but no change in financial aid; no; nothing. :)</p>

3

<p>So are you saying that Oberlin did not give any financial or merit aid and you are already struggling to meet current expenses? I know of a few admits to Oberlin receiving very very generous merit and financial aid (30k in one case). So, if you think Oberlin made a mistake speak with financial aid. Otherwise - do what your gut tells you - avoid the debt.</p>

<p>It is interesting that so many of us, astutely avoid living beyond our means, but then get caught up in the moment and take on massive college debt for our children.</p>

4

<p>It's not the architecture that's the problem at Maryland (although I must admit that it drives me nuts that the whole campus looks the same, and I still get lost even though my son has been there for three years).</p>

<p>The most significant issue is the surrounding area, which is not the best. As long as you and your son are aware of this and take it into account in your decision-making, that's fine. As I said, I have a son there myself, and he does not regret his decision to go to Maryland. But it's important for everyone considering Maryland to realize that the name "College Park" does not mean "nice college town." What it really means is "the place where Marian's son had bicycles stolen three times in a single semester."</p>

<p>Maryland has lots of great honors and special interest programs, though, which make the huge campus feel smaller for entering students. And quite a few excellent students go there because the price is right. (For the hundred or so each year with Banneker-Key merit scholarships, the price is zero!) The proximity to Washington, DC is also a big plus for a lot of kids. Your son may also appreciate the fact that AP credits can be used to satisfy general education requirements (unlike at a lot of private colleges), which gives kids who have taken advanced courses in high school great freedom in designing their programs. And when your son outgrows the dorms, check out the University View apartment building (across from McDonald's on Route 1). It's a bit pricey, but the facilities are excellent (the building is two years old, no more than two people share a bathroom, and every apartment has a washer and dryer). Given what you're saving on tuition, the somewhat inflated rent would probably be only a minor irritation.</p>

5

<p>If I am not mistaken the Parent Plus is based on the applicant's credit worthiness. Credit worthiness as in credit score based on the 3 credit reporting agencies, probably some income component (part of the credit score is based on the utilization ratio of available credit) and assets. I would think you apply for a new one every year. And if circumstances change in either credit scores or income or available assets that might play a part in how much is extended in each respective PPL.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

6

<p>Oh, we live 10 minutes from College Park so we are familiar with the area... half our house is furnished or supplied from the College Park Ikea or Home Depot! My son is perfectly able to hop on the Metro and get into DC for anything he would want to do ... and in fact, after going to a HS that is so crowded he has to elbow his way through the halls and where Ipods and backpacks are stolen if not attached to your body he views the Md. campus as awfully green and idyllic, so that's not the problem ;)</p>

<p>We haven't gotten a financial aid letter from Oberlin yet, but I am not expecting anything (we got nothing from Rochester, Brandeis, Skidmore and they all cost more than Oberlin) and my understanding is that merit scholarships were all given out. On other threads I have described our particular financial situation, which is common, so I am not complaining at all... always very moderate income... poverty lawyers, periods of unemployment, uneducated working class parents, our own student loans to pay off... now both happen to be working at good DC public interest law jobs and making good salaries over the past few years, for the first time saving for retirement (ages 49 and 53), all savings put into buying a house and paying for services for a special needs kid, all spare income going to tuition for special needs kid (lost school case -- bright kid with learning disabilities and OCD-ish issues -- so public schools think he should just try harder etc). All this went onto our CSS form. And then all the usual expenses of two inside beltway full time working parents with kids... after school care, airfare for grandparents to visit once or twice a year, takeout when parents arrive home at 7 too tired to cook (again, not complaining, we actually both have flexible, understanding jobs), and I travel a fair amount so that cuts quite a bit into time that can be used for economizing (when you have to run to the mall to buy sneakers for 2 boys in the one day between a deadline and a weeklong trip, you buy the first pairs that fit with no time to shop for price -- or style!) (Nonetheless, note the reference to Ikea and Home Depot, nothing fancy here... our futon on the floor drives my mother wild!)</p>

<p>Anyhow, even if Oberlin is generous, it is still going to be a huge hunk of money to come up with... and even if our son works over the summer and earns a few thousand it will still be a huge hunk of money any way you slice it....And whether it's him or us going into debt, it's all the same family...</p>

<p>So, I still have the practical question: the schools looked at exactly what you are looking at --- they decided we could pay for it. I got booklets from some of them called "paying for college" but none of them really addressed this issue... it was very general information ... "your son or daughter could contribute the earnings from a summer job" or a description of the Plus program.</p>

<p>I guess I am just being silly... I just hadn't faced up to what it would FEEL like to actually take on the college debt....</p>

<p>It just scares the living daylights out of me to incur that level of debt at this stage in life as I feel my body fall apart, as I face surgery for the second time in two years for two random reasons, facing the potential of 6 more years of tuition until S2 graduates from HS... but comparing Oberlin and Md. is just so damned apples and oranges!</p>

<p>Thanks for letting me vent. </p>

<p>I just chatted with my son... if the money weren't the issue, he would choose Oberlin. But, he can't see paying so much more money for it, so if money is an issue, he's happy with Md. WHY CAN'T I BE SO SENSIBLE OR MAKE PEACE WITH THAT??????????????????????
s</p>

7

<p>I'd talk with Oberlin one more time if they give you nothing - let them know exactly what your son said - that if money weren't the issue, he would choose Oberlin. And talk about your special circumstances - learning disabled son in private school - and see if there is anything else they can do.</p>

<p>If not, it sounds like your son seems happy about his prospects at MD. Your health and well being is not worth taking on that kind of debt for an undergraduate degree. If he does extremely well at U Md Honors, he will probably have plenty of good offers in any case.</p>

8

<p>Our family faced just a similiar choice last year.....and we decided we would not take on the massive debt to send our son to a very expensive conservatory. VERY hard to disappoint a kid who poured his heart into earning an acceptance (and some merit $$$).<br>
We also have a younger special needs kid to support, probably longterm.</p>

<p>We also are 50ish and very middle income in expensive to live in NJ. Saving feverishly for retirement. No vacations, old cars, etc,etc.
So, son will attend our reasonably priced instate U and we will be able to sleep at nite.</p>

<p>Of course, all situations/families are different. But maybe Md is the right choice?</p>

9

<p>s- there was an old-time poster here named Jamimom who was a source of much wisdom.... and I think the other old-timers would agree that she is sorely missed.</p>

<p>Anyway, she had a huge family (adopted kids, nephews, some family complications); money was a constraint; custodial issues which always made simple questions like "what can we afford to pay for" really complicated. She had two sayings which might be apt for you.... the first is that college is part Disney world; part half-way house. The second is that some kids are dandelions and can thrive in a crack in a sidewalk with no water or soil... other kids are like orchids and need a lot of TLC and care and worry to get through the season. Her point to all of this was that if you have a kid who is a dandelion (and it sounds like your oldest is one of these kids....) just come up with the best combo of Disney/Halfway that you can afford, and your kid will do great and exceed every expectation. If you have a kid who is an orchid (sounds like your number 2) that's where the choice gets complicated and it's worth taking the time, and possibly lots of dough, to maximize the environment.</p>

<p>I think her words of wisdom are apt for you. Your life has a lot of complications in it from what you've told us, so maybe the message is to be grateful that your son is such a resilient, capable person, who will do great things at Maryland and really find a community where he can bloom. Would Oberlin be a better choice? Maybe, maybe not....is it that much of a better option to take on so much debt and risk your financial security???</p>

10

<p>Definitely talk to Oberlin and make sure they understand your situation before making a decision.</p>

11

<p>OK, I wrote this privately to someone, but it helped me figure out what was really, really, really troubling me. </p>

<p>Remember upward mobility? Remember the whole idea of working your butt off so that your children could have what you couldn't?
My father grew up in abject poverty and manged to go from slums and public housing to raise a daughter who went to MIT and Columbia Law school and who owns her own home... my mother was working class and never went to college, she stayed up at nights typing medical transcription throughout my childhood to make ends meet... My H's parents, his dad was an illegal immigrant from Japan who came here with nothing, his mom born here to a rice farmer and then orphaned, raised in Japan but treated horribly during wwII as she was an american citizan... he went to NYU and Brooklyn Law... we dedicated our lives to serving others, we paid off our loans, we scrimped and saved, we helped my parents out for years... </p>

<p>I won't go into reasons we have little savings, I've posted elsewhere, and I don't mean to complain...</p>

<p>I think I just feel like an abject failure that I can't comfortably afford to pay for college for my son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>I can't give him what my parents gave me... (of course, their EFC was not much more than 0!)</p>

<p>Would it have been better if I hadn't become a poverty lawyer? New graduates from my law school earn in their first year on wall street what I earn after 25 years of being a lawyer -- and I get paid well for public interest law and have a national practice that includes amicus work in the Supreme Court! Trust me, the day I decided to become a poverty lawyer I was not thinking about paying for college for a theoretical child way in the future... I was trying to change the world so that no child would be unable to afford college or medical care or food or shelter... </p>

<p>And I swore I would never deprive my "easy" son because I had to help my "difficult" son... and yet here I am skimping on tuition for my older son because my younger son needs private school... I mean, really, honestly.... if the *(^$(^$%%& public school could educate S2 then I could take the $24,000 and there's my annual contribution to S1's college education plus whatever else we can add!!!!!!</p>

<p>I just want to crawl into a hole and start this while darn thing all over again! I thought I was supposed to be happy and dancing in the streets when he got 8/10 wonderful acceptances, 1 rejection and 1 waitlist.... and instead I feel depressed and let down and that the acceptances are all like promises to take your little one to the park that you can't keep.</p>

<p>OK, it's late, I'm being dramatic. Things will look better in the morning.</p>

<p>S</p>

12

<p>silver...cyberhugs.</p>

<p>Your story is almost as moving as andison's story a few years ago but I don't think you are alone. There are a number of CC parents who went to Ivies or top LACs who now find they cannot gift their children that same experience--for a whole bunch of good reasons.</p>

<p>Quarterbacking from the cyber armchair, I sooo wish he had put some good merit schools on his list. </p>

<p>Quarterbacking here on planet earth, I agree that he should call Oberlin and check. And he should think about taking a year off to help pay for school. And think about being an RA to help pay for it. If he isn't up to scrimping and saving for Oberlin then let him choose UMd--but be sure to tell him the depth of your regrets so that when he has children, he won't be tearing his hair out.</p>

13

<p>Oh... I'm sorry! I empathize with you - it's an awful feeling not being able to give your kid what you think they should have. :) I'm teaching my low-income kinder kids the famous song, "You can't always get what you want... you can't always get what you want.... you can't always get what you want... but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need..." (of course, I don't teach them the other lyrics.) It's a good song for kids and for grownups and everyone in-between.. There's always the not knowing whether Oberlin or MD would have worked out better for your son, but chances are good that he will have a wonderful experience and thrive where you can comfortable afford for him to be educated. And if it doesn't work out well there, well, he will have finished one year of college work, and he can transfer to Oberlin and you will only have to fork out money for 3 years of expensive private school. (FWIW the weather in Oberlin sucks, and some kids find the campus too remote for their tastes....) It's late and I'm sure my post doesn't make any sense... but I am sorry, and I totally empathize with how you're feeling, and it does suck... but it'll turn out all right in the end. :) And Cheers is right about some things above. There are ways to save some of the money; Oberlin has coops that are cheaper than other housing, and your son can work during the summer and school year, and.. well, there are ways to save money in small ways that add up. Does your son drive, own a car? Do you have cable tv? eat out? maid service? laundry service? Sometimes combination frugality will do it; son goes to cheap school for year one, works in the summer, you cut out xx things, he takes gap year to work, and voila, you have enough money to pay for a substantial portion of year 2-4....</p>

14

<p>My heart goes out to you! Cyberhugs! I understand completely. It hurts when you can't do something that you expected for your child. I, too, came from those surroundings, and am doing what I can, and I think that is the best any of us can do. Don't kick yourself about it. You can only do what you can, and your son is a as wonderufl as he is because of what you did for him, not what you gave him. That is what will matter in life. Good luck to you both. Things will work out.</p>

15

<p>Oh anxiousmom, of course I know that you can't have everything! And of course knowing that makes me feel even worse (although I of course know you only meant well, really) because then I feel spoiled and rotten! My clients had absolutely nothing, trust me. </p>

<p>Aside from my own guilt, I think perhaps my point was a larger one. (Perhaps?) Isn't that the theme (the myth????) that our entire society operates on -- that every generation will do better than the one before? So what's wrong with the picture I paint? Is it the personal choices I made? Was it "wrong" to be a poverty lawyer rather than a wall street lawyer? Is the problem the relative cost of college? The failure of the public schools vis-a-vis S2? The fact that as a society we have no real safety net so we are individually responsible for saving for retirement/disability/catastrophic illness? (i.e. I could more easily pay for college and still sleep at night if I were confident that we wouldn't lose our home and go into bankruptcy if my H and I both had medical problems at the same time, or one of us had a severe one).</p>

<p>Subissues, and almost red herrings) are:
Oberlin happens to be his pick, put for the larger issue any LAC would stand in (and we lived in or near Rochester for 20 year so we know weather!)
I'm not big on planning transfer-- ok to use if you are unhappy, but you miss out on the sense of an alma mater and have to re-integrate and re-aculturate, so I don't like to plan on it. My son has already been in something like 7 different schools because we've moved (layoffs , job opportunities, etc) so I doubt he would want to plan on transfering...
AND... no cable (my kids SWEAR we are the only ones), no maid service, no laundry service (isn't that what HUSBANDS are for????) and alas, the person who helps us clean once every few weeks -- and thus probably keeps child protective from removing our children -- already knows she will no longer work for us when college days begin. As for take out -- yes, the bane of our budget -- an area to cut back, difficult as we all know, but can be done when necessary...</p>

<p>So back to the big issues... what's up with those... and that upward mobility thing? </p>

<p>s</p>

16

<p>OK, long reply here, from someone who also went the "poverty law" route after law school.

[quote]
Then I go to a bank and ask for a Plus loan for $43,000 over a 10 year term, and then again the next year, and the following year and then the following year, and after 4 years I have about $180,000 in Plus loans to be paid back over 10 years?

[/quote]
That is WAY too much debt for college. I'm carrying that much debt, but it's called a "mortgage" and it will be paid off 12 years from now and then I will own a home with a big fat equity. Do the math and figure out your monthly payment -- I just did it and came up with more than $2200. (8.5%, fixed rate). Don't do it.</p>

<p>Here is how I figure out how much I can borrow for my daughter: I asked my self what kind of payment I could make every month that would be comfortable for me. For me, it's about $400. That means I can borrow $32K. Anything more I have to think about.

[quote]
Do they give it to you no matter what your income is?

[/quote]
Yes, assuming good credit, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. You're a poverty lawyer, you must be aware the concept of predatory lending practices that take advantage of poor people. Same concept, except on a larger scale.

[quote]
What if you lose your job in the meantime?

[/quote]
It is relatively easy to get payments deferred or extended due to hardship, but interest will still run. The only good thing about a PLUS loan is that if your kid drops dead sometime before you pay it off, then you don't have to pay. Also, if you drop dead I think you are excused. Other than that, it's like any other loan. Not such a good idea if you plan on living a long time.
[quote]
It just scares the living daylights out of me to incur that level of debt at this stage in life as I feel my body fall apart, as I face surgery for the second time in two years

[/quote]
And well it should. You simply cannot do it.
[quote]
but comparing Oberlin and Md. is just so damned apples and oranges!

[/quote]
Yeah, the used Saturn I'm driving just looks really inadequate compared to a BMW, too. Though if I had a lot of money I think I'd buy a Honda Prius instead,so I could drive around all smug about how I was saving the environment instead. (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert&lt;/a>! )</p>

<p>(will continue post below)</p>

17

<p>(continuation of previous post)
[quote]
I think I just feel like an abject failure that I can't comfortably afford to pay for college for my son.

[/quote]
Yes, you could have raised him up to be selfish and materialistic instead, comfortable in the knowledge that mommy and daddy would cater to his every need.
[quote]
I think I just feel like an abject failure that I can't comfortably afford to pay for college for my son

[/quote]
Not if they become poverty lawyers. ;)

[quote]
I was trying to change the world so that no child would be unable to afford college or medical care or food or shelter.

[/quote]
And your son can afford college: at U. Md. But there are still many kids who cannot to even attend their local community college, or medical care, or food or shelter... so your work isn't done. You don't have to become a socialist, but you should at least recognize that $43K spent on a year's tuition could go a lot farther toward educating third-world kids - and could probably finance about 8 US kids attending local public u's as commuters -- and that all of the families who are busy accumulating the wealth needed so that it easy for them to spend $180K over 4 years for their kid's education really aren't doing much to further the goals of helping those kids who don't even have adequate food or shelter.

[quote]
And I swore I would never deprive my "easy" son because I had to help my "difficult" son...

[/quote]
This is tough, but we never can really give to each of our kids equally: you have to make choices that are best for the family. Your older son has had the good fortune to be born with innate abilities that put him on a better footing than your younger son, so he needs less in the way of help from you -- your younger one did not ask to have a learning disability.

[quote]
My son is now 90% sure that he will choose U. Md. Honors program, Govt&Politics, and is intrigued by the possibility of the joint public policy masters...

[/quote]
And you should be absolutely, tremendously proud that your smart and pragmatic son has already pretty much made the decision, with a likely career goal that is geared toward public service and probably is influenced by the work he has seen his parents do. </p>

<p>You have done an excellent job as a parent. You have instilled <em>good values</em> in your son -- the values that are important to you and that you would like to see in your son. I mean, would you be happier if his goal was investment banking? Is that what you and your husband worked for?</p>

<p>Yes: it hurts when we tell our kids "no" on the money. I've been there. But it really is no different than when we said "no" to whatever stupid toy they saw on t.v. that they absolutely had to have, and we couldn't afford. </p>

<p>I do think you should wait to see if Oberlin offers money -- you may be very pleasantly surprised. Oberlin is in a different league when it comes to financial aid than the other colleges you mentioned. I don't know what your current income is, but I can see borrowing $50K in PLUS loans over 4 years as perhaps being far more reasonable on your salaries. (~$600 monthly payment). </p>

<p>Oberlin is an excellent school, but it really won't make much of a difference for your son the rest of his life. He may even find that he is happier at U Md., for a variety of reasons. Keep in mind that the dollars saved on tuition may help pay for other opportunities -- it is not all that expensive to finance travel abroad, for example. </p>

<p>I'm not trying to make light of your feelings -- we all sometimes feel badly when we can't give our kids everything they want -- or that we want for them. But the reality is that the most important thing we give to our kids are not material in nature. So try to keep in mind why it is that you became a poverty lawyer: I am sure that your kids respect and love you for those values, and would much rather be the sons of poverty lawyers than fat-cat corporate lawyer. (Oh.... I am also the daughter of a poverty lawyer, and I was quite pleased and proud as a child because my daddy was just like Atticus Finch -- nothing made me prouder than the times he took on some really controversial local cause or another that led my mother to moan and groan about how much it was costing us in lost dollars and social standing.).</p>

18

<p>Wonderful post, CalMom! :)<br>
I just wanted to address one other issue. It might be very hard on your son to attend Oberlin KNOWING the financial burden it puts on you. There can be a lot of guilt involved for the student who realizes the financial implications of you borrowing that much money- and even worse, if the college does not turn out to be a good fit for the student, or he/she doesn't end up liking the experience. You can save your son that guilt, by living with YOUR guilt of not being able to provide him with the more expensive option. And that should help you feel less guilty and upset. ;)</p>

19

<p>silversenior,
First of all <<hugs>> to you and your family. This time immediately after the acceptances/rejections/waitlists come in is extremely difficult for parents. Two years ago, my H and I were in your position with acceptances for S to Chicago and Berkeley (in state). We are both public servants who chose our work because of what we could give back, but I remember all too well the feeling of inadequacy and fear as I stared at the numbers from Chicago, which I felt to be the best choice for S, but which would have cost us 100K more than Cal. Your post has brought it all back, as if two years haven't passed at all. I just have a few comments:</hugs></p>

<p>
[quote]
Remember upward mobility? Remember the whole idea of working your butt off so that your children could have what you couldn't?
My father grew up in abject poverty and manged to go from slums and public housing to raise a daughter who went to MIT and Columbia Law school and who owns her own home...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think I just feel like an abject failure that I can't comfortably afford to pay for college for my son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>I can't give him what my parents gave me... (of course, their EFC was not much more than 0!)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You already said it, but it bears repeating. Your hard-working but poor father did not "give" you the private school college education. He couldn't have. You earned the acceptance (as your son has earned Oberlin's) and the government did the rest (requiring MIT to lower your tuition to practically nothing). Your parents would not have been able to send you to MIT at its full cost, right? There is no shame in that. So don't be ashamed that you can't do the same. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Trust me, the day I decided to become a poverty lawyer I was not thinking about paying for college for a theoretical child way in the future... I was trying to change the world so that no child would be unable to afford college or medical care or food or shelter...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And this is where you stepped off the upward-mobility economic machine. People who go into public service and accept salaries that are substantially less than those in the private sector do something that is, ecomonically speaking, fundamentally illogical. If you were playing Monopoly, it would be like selling Park Place at a 10th of its value. The only reason you would do that would be if you weren't playing the game to win, if you were playing it for some other reason than to accumulate more property and money than anyone else. And you and your husband have not been playing this particular game 'right.' You made that choice long ago and have had to live with smaller, subtler feelings of "betrayal" all along. Probably the cars you drive, the addresses you've called home, the schools your S's attended, the clothing stores you shop at... but nothing hits home like being able (or unable) to send your kid to any college his heart desires. It's one thing to deny yourself a high-end lifestyle because you believe in helping the less fortunate, it's another thing to deny your kids their dreams, their future, their opportunities. And you could have avoided this by taking the corporate law jobs; you had a choice.</p>

<p>But...</p>

<p>...while you may have opted off the economic upwardly-mobile machine, and your children may have to be content to go to public universities and just match your lifestyle and income rather than exceed it (which is better than 98% of the world anyhow), you stepped onto an ethical upwardly-mobile footpath. This is the path that is practically invisible in our rather sad and mean times, where greed, envy and one-upsmanship often masquerade as a work ethic, and where massive debt-denial manifests as outward success like some kind of magical elixir that most people don't understand and all too happily imbibe. This path exists a little below the radar of the advertising and media worlds, though many journalists made the same decision as you and your H long ago: the public good before private gain. Ordinary and quiet, it's too well-meaning and nice to get any headlines or attention. It generally can't be found in the luxury car dealerships, the finer zip codes, the box seats of stadiums and the tony private secondary schools, and not just because these folks can't afford it, but because they are often, and generally, not interested in such stuff (well, box seats, maybe). </p>

<p>The people who choose this route (not just public servants, but anyone who gives up private economic gain to take on the work of those who are less able) get their kicks from "making a difference." Their reward comes from knowing "what could have happened" to those "defendants, plaintiffs, students, patients, foster kids, run-aways, drop-outs, mentally ill, veterans..." Helping someone who is truly, truly in need is what moves their hearts, their hands, their souls. It is what brings honor to their work. </p>

<p>Your story is a beautiful one, silversenior, because it is so completely circular. You and your H's parents were poor, but they raised children who came to understand the real value of education and money, that they free us to make choices. Of all the ways you could have cashed in your hard work and private school degrees, you both chose to help people like your parents, so that maybe their kids could have choices, too. And the really beautiful thing is that your own boys have been able to watch this acted out over their lifetimes. They've seen the choices between (probably) paying for the grandparents to fly out and an expensive summer camp opportunity. They've seen Mom and Dad's cars compared to some of their friends. But they've also heard the stories around the dinner table about your clients, and these have shaped them more, I would think, than any missed camp opportunity or luxury SUV.</p>

<p>So, give your oldest son this gift one more time. Let him choose the less expensive college because that is the wise and right thing to do for you and for him and for his little brother. Let him feel the world has a real edge to it, and that it's not (all of the sudden!) an ever-expanding, wishful-thinking dream-world where you three just somehow will pay for it all later. You didn't raise him to think this way because you and your H value a whole different set of criteria. Don't change on him now after 18 years. As anxiousmom said above, the guilt of knowing you are so far in debt would probably weigh heavily on a kid like him. And it seriously might tempt him to choose a career that doesn't call him or honor his gifts, if only to help his parents get out of "poverty." That would be pretty ironic, right?</p>

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<p>silversenior, there is some wonderful and eloquent advice in the above posts. I thought I would add one more practically-oriented thought:</p>

<p>What if after 4 years of college, your son decides he would like to follow in your footsteps and go into law? Or go to grad school? Or into medicine? How would you deal with the looming cost of those tuitions knowing you had spent the whole wad on his undergraduate education?</p>

<p>If the Md Honors program looks like a good fit for your son, and Oberlin offers little FA, then I think you should do what is best for your entire family, and what will also give him the best post-graduate options, should he desire to continue on. You'll be 4 more years into your better paying jobs by then, and will probably be more financially stable.</p>

<p>You've raised a good kid, and sounds like you've given him some values that money never could buy. I used to work in a very monied HS district, where the kids drove luxury cars and routinely went to Ivies and expensive LACs. Too many of these kids, unfortunately, were rude, shallow and not very admirable persons. You have given your kid a wonderful, real life, real family example of public service and sacrifice. Don't mortgage his and your family's future because you feel guilty about the material stuff.</p>