Financial aid and ED - schools allowing release if need not met

<p>LouWave, you should start your own thread. This thread is about a different topic.</p>

<p>I don’t think universities will punish an applicant for a student from the previous year who went back on an ED offer. The only time that I think that could possibly happen would be at very elite private/boarding high schools. I know that at our large public high school, someone last year was released from ED at Duke because of the financial clause. Both of my sons were still accepted there the following year during RD.</p>

<p>Thank goodness my son wasn’t accepted to the school where he applied ED because he ended up getting a full-ride merit scholarship elsewhere, which we would have never have know about if he was admitted early.</p>

<p>^^^</p>

<p>yes…I can understand that there would be repercussion when knowingly rich kids from elite boarding schools renege on their ED commitments</p>

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<p>Schools with ED are generally vague about how much it helps, if it helps at all (other than for the special admit categories). It presumably does help if the school considers “level of applicant’s interest”, since applying ED is about the strongest level of interest an applicant can show the school.</p>

<p>By the summer prior to our son’s senior year, we had accumlated what I thought was a great short list of colleges. But by October, son let it be known that he wanted to apply Early Decision (ED) to Oberlin. (For finacial reason alone) we would have never thought of going this route, until son, after having returned from a campus visit, informed us that “this was the one.” So with initial trepidation, applied he (& we) did…</p>

<p>The Admissions and Financial Aid staff have been extremely professional and accomodating to this middle class family. We sent in our previous tax returns to the FA Staff and got back a report on how the financial aid would work out. I showed it to my son’s mother, and we have moved forward with ED.</p>

<p>We now find ourselves patiently waiting on the the ED Letter from the college ~ to see if son will or will not be attending Oberlin next fall.</p>

<p>I would suggest that ED is no longer a option ONLY for those families who can simply cut a check. If you have a child who is certain where he/she wants to attend–contact the Admissions & Financial Aid staff ASAP and begin the needed communication/demonstrate the interest to that particular college.</p>

<p>Regardless of the results of that letter, that is to arrive from the college sometime this week, I am so glad that we had our son take advantage of this ED opportunity.</p>

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<p>Obviously, everyone in question found the financial aid and net price estimate acceptable in your case. But some families find that the student’s top choice school is not affordable, so ED would not be suitable in their case.</p>

<p>mom2collegekids, here’s the text of the ED agreement from Elon, which is not a Common App school:</p>

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<p>No clause for not receiving insufficient FA as reason not to enroll.</p>

<p>I’ve no idea what happens if a student doesn’t enroll. The important thing is that parents shouldn’t assume that the Common App ED agreement is the only one out there, and any school’s specific ED language should be looked at carefully before committing. Just saying that the school can’t really enforce the requirement doesn’t mean that people should think it’s fine to go ahead and apply ED. Personally, if I couldn’t afford to be full pay at a school with a policy like Elon’s, I wouldn’t have my kid apply there ED. To be fair, Elon’s full price is significantly less than that of many other private schools.</p>

<p>I know that in the past years I’ve seen at least one other school which had the “you are committing to attend regardless of financial aid” statement in their ED agreement, but I can’t remember the name and I’m not going to hunt it down.</p>

<p>^^this is true, there are colleges that have such policies. There was a lengthy and heated debate a few years back about this complete with web citations. Now, I’m “guessing” that a college would let a student out of an ED agreement, but perhaps not without lengthy back and forth which puts the student in a precarious position for enrollment at comparable colleges. Every parent who signs that agreement better make sure they have read the COLLEGE requirements for ED as I would think that would take precedent over anything on the common app which is just a “product” of the College Board - an independent company. Whether the entire concept of ED is legal or not can be viewed on the lengthy thread from a couple years ago. </p>

<p>I did learn something today I did not realize that renig was considered a “common misspelling” I always thought renege was the archaic spelling.</p>

<p>*There was a lengthy and heated debate a few years back about this complete with web citations. Now, I’m “guessing” that a college would let a student out of an ED agreement, but perhaps not without lengthy back and forth which puts the student in a precarious position for enrollment at comparable colleges. *</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>What lengthy back and forth. If the student doesn’t submit the deposit, it ends. What back and forth? I wouldn’t allow a school to harass my child if their FA offer had been inadequate. How would it affect the student’s app process with other schools. </p>

<p>I think it’s a myth that ED schools are bothering to contact a bunch of other schools and saying, “hey, Susie ED’d our school and didn’t enroll so don’t accept her if she applies to your school.” Frankly, the student who declines a top ED school for money reasons isn’t likely going to find better aid at another top school…therefore she’slooking elsewhere at schools that are beyond the reach of any fraternity of top schools. </p>

<p>Seriously, if my child ED’d a school, I would still have him send out apps to EA, Rolling Admissions and so forth schools. If the aid at the ED school wasn’t adequate, then decline/not pay the enrollment and see what happens with the other apps. </p>

<p>If schools like Elon want to more ensure that people don’t decline over the money issue, then they should demand enrollment deposit at the time of application (and refund those who are rejected). As for their recommendation that people use the NPC is fine as long as the student isn’t one of the 50% out there with NCPs or parents who take business deductions. It’s not like having divorced parents is rare.</p>

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<p>However, what is happening more at the high school level is that high schools are using the only recourse they have left regarding ED admissions; not going forward with the RD process for students who have been admitted ED unless they show proof that they have been released from the ED agreement and informing schools that the student has been accepted elsewhere ED. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that the school also signs off that they explain the ED process and both the school and the students/parents understand the process.</p>

<p>^^^ I highly doubt that, due to privacy laws that would be a violation I am sure. And I would sue the snot out of the adviser, the school board and anyone else who did that.</p>

<p>A schools job is prepare a student to attend college, NOT enforce a barely legal agreement. ( I mean any court would disallow an agreement signed for an 18 yo- an adult by the law- by a parent - or minor for that matter especially if they did not have it reviewed by an attorney first hand)</p>

<p>@mom2collegekids-- Like I said my severance, my salary for last year and my savings assures we will be ok, even with 2 kids in school, for a couple of years, it will just really set back retirement plans a bit, not a bad problem to have, but still a problem making the decision to attend BU vs a higher ranked State School way more important than before</p>

<p>You are right, ED is not a legal agreement, it is an honor bound agreement. No one is going to put a gun to any one’s head and make them attend a school.</p>

<p>The school is also honor bound by the agreement and is well within their right not to aid and abet a student by moving forward with applications of students who violate the ED agreement (my school, did seek advice and was green lighted by DOE legal department that they could stop the process). </p>

<p>The school is within their right not to move forward until a student is released from ED. Usually rolling admissions apps are done, but because the agreement states that if accepted under ED, you will withdraw applications and not create new schools, the school does not have to send out mid year reports and transcripts until the ED app is pulled (since most of this paperwork is not due until mid february, there is plenty of time for the student to show that they have been released from ED) and still have their applications considered for RD.</p>

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<p>It would be a wasted suit as the GC/school is not disparaging, slandering or being libelous toward your child when they are telling the truth as the truth is an absolute defense and all the school is doing is being truthful in disseminating information.</p>

<p>About 10 years ago our high school was blacklisted for a while due to multiple ED applications; the GC was replaced. Some schools say they exchange ED lists; it makes sense after the fact, for applicants accepting the FA offers and full payers. But an RD school wouldn’t care if FA didn’t work out at the ED school.</p>

<p>There’s no legal issue with ED; it’s not a contract, but rather an honor-system agreement, with possible consequences.</p>

<p>As a long time high school counselor, sybbie719 knows whereof she speaks. I am also a college counselor and while I can agree that no college can “force” your child to attend, you will be let out of an ED agreement IF a financial aid award offered is not sufficient. It is up to you and the ED college to hash that out. Generally, colleges will be more likely to let you out to attend a “lower tier” school/state school where the cost is less. What has happened in the past is that students have applied one place ED and “thrown in” some really “reachy” applications, and when one of those “hits,” the student all of a sudden decides that ED isn’t going to work for them. Yes, the college can let another college know that an ED agreement has been broken. And yes, certain colleges do hold “grudges” against high schools, both when an ED agreement is broken as well as when they accept certain students who decline the offer of acceptance.</p>

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<p>And with the vast majority of schools offering ED this is fine. It’s with only a few that it’s an issue. If a student wants to be able to turn down an ED offer if it’s not affordable, then the student simply should not apply ED to Elon or schools with similar ED rules.</p>

<p>Like others say, it’s an honor-bound system. Elon’s ED admissions rate is significantly higher than its RD rate, especially for students with lower stats. So there’s the trade-off. I would never, ever agree to let one of my children game the system by saying they could just ignore a school’s ED agreement if it wasn’t convenient for us.</p>

<p>would never, ever agree to let one of my children game the system by saying they could just ignore a school’s ED agreement if it wasn’t convenient for us.</p>

<p>convenient? lol</p>

<p>I don’t think anyone is suggesting that. There’s a huge difference between “not convenient” and “not affordable.” Not convenient suggests having to do something that’s a bit of a “pain in the tush”…not affordable suggests having to jeopardize a family’s financial health by either taking out unaffordable loans or not paying the mortgage. </p>

<p>If someone uses the NPC to the best of their ability, but the resulting FA offer isn’t anywhere close to what the NPC indicated, then in good conscience the student should be able to walk away and not feel that he’s “gamed the system.” Obviously, the NPCs aren’t perfectly accurate, and everyone should assume a couple thousand plus or minus. However, when the difference in amount requires a family to come up with an additional - say - $1000 a month out of a budget that was already close to being strained with the NPC estimate, then there’s just no way to squeeze that extra money out.</p>

<p>The issue is with families who use ED when they know they can NOT afford to pay their family contribution…and then HOPE for enough aid. IMHO, that is wasting a acceptance on someone who really intends to attend if accepted ED.</p>

<p>We KNEW there was variability in the financial aid amounts amongst colleges…and yes…could be $12,000 a year or more in aid…spending on the school. We told our kids to apply Early Action to as many schools as they chose…but NOT ED. None. </p>

<p>DS liked every school to which he applied. DD’s number one choice was her number one choice all the way. They had EA…if it had been ED, she would have applied regular decision.</p>

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<p>If that’s the situation, then the family should get confirmation in advance from the ED school that the NPC is accurate within that range of EFC. If the school says no, sorry, we’re not changing the agreement…then the family has its answer. Don’t apply ED to that school if you can’t afford the risk. Apply RD. And that’s why I made the comment about it not being “convenient”. A family in this situation could either apply to another ED school that releases students for financial reasons, or they could apply RD. No one is forcing them to apply ED to any particular school. </p>

<p>I’ve no idea how accurate Elon’s (or similar schools’) NPC is. Obviously, it’s in everyone’s best interests to have it be spot-on. But I’m not sympathetic to the argument that you can just change the ED rules on your own.</p>

<p>I would hope that families who have their kids apply on a wing and a prayer and a whole lot of wishful thinking understand the ramifications regarding. If they do, then I don’t particularly care if they want to throw away $100. But it seems an oxymoron to throw away $100 when it’s aid that is needed because the family can’t a afford it’s expected contribution. Plus kids don’t get brownie points for “the most acceptances” or “the most glamorous” acceptances…they get nada, zilch if they don’t attend and it’s forgotten within 3 months by everyone.</p>

<p>First of all, I believe that ED is a big advantage. Lots of good schools take a large percentage of their total class ED. I remember having a debate with a friend about whether you can get out of an ED acceptance if you don’t like the aid package. If you can, than that would mean that the only people for whom ED is binding are those who are paying full freight. I know no one feels particularly sorry for that group (although many of them have less money than other people - it’s just not in the form of pensions, primary residence, etc.) but is this fair?</p>

<p>Also, my daughter was accepted ED from a private, international school and the GC made it known that no outstanding applications would be submitted.</p>