Financial Aid and Parents Income.

Paying for College
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<p>Sometimes Early Action and Early Decision schools require that the Profile be filled out by Oct/Nov with estimates, but I’ve never heard of anyone requiring the FAFSA before January. It’s not even possible to fill it out for the 2014-2015 school year until January 1, 2014.</p>

<p>Knox would probably be a match for your son but would still run you about $20K/year.</p>

<p>[Cost</a> and Financial Aid | Knox College](<a href=“http://www.knox.edu/admission-and-financial-aid/cost-and-financial-aid.html]Cost”>http://www.knox.edu/admission-and-financial-aid/cost-and-financial-aid.html)</p>

<p>If he likes Knox, he might apply to Grinnell College as well. Grinnell offers a small number of merit scholarships.</p>

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<p>You mentioned need-based aid and a max of $20k in loans for all of college. You have to understand that almost all colleges package loans in their need-based aid so most colleges tat meet full need will still require students to take about $28k in loans for 4 years-- that would be on top of your $20k. This is why you will be better served targeting merit aid.</p>

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<p>You won’t get fee waivers for application fees as you are not low income. Your son may receive invites to apply for free to certain universities because of his stats. Is your son working this summer? You may want him t work so that he can cover some of his expenses in college.</p>

<p>Make sure that your son understands the financial picture now, if you haven’t already spoken to him about it. Make sure he has financial safeties that he would be happy to attend.</p>

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<p>Google EFC formula 2014 and you will get the link to the PDF of this year’s FAFSA formula. You can work through it on paper and try different scenarios to see what factors are likely to most affect your EFC. The formula changes a bit each year, and the new one will be available in October or so again as a PDF. It won’t be live on the FAFSA website until January first.</p>

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<p>No reason why anyone can’t just fill out this year’s FAFSA and see what the real EFC would be for him. It’s free. Just make sure you don’t get the two confused next year. As others have said, the early schools generally want a PROFILE completed for an early read, which is estimate only until the real info for the year under the glass is available. </p>

<p>You can then look at your EFC and see what affects it. One thing that really stands out is that assets are reported as of the date you fill out the form, so do not do so on payday or when you have money sitting in your account for that new roof or to be transferred over or that you are holding for someone. They don’t care. It’s a snapshop of the account of that day, and you cannot say, "oops: let’s pick another day or have earmarked funds removed from consideration, unless you are holding it perhaps for an imminent kidney transplant and even then you will have to go through the pain of requesting professional judgement from every single school. Definitely not worth making that mistake. The assets are assesses at 5.6% of total market value over your exemption allowance. </p>

<p>Having even more of a impact is your student’s assets. He should have an absolute Zero on that day. Student assets are hit at a whopping 20% of value on that day. I suggest he start paying your for expenses and you set up a joint account with the parent’s name/ssn on front for his accounts so that any such assets go with the 5.6% hit. If he has savings or college funds, putting them into a 529 plan as those are counted as parental assets.</p>

<p>If there is a family business in the picture or a non custodial parent, bear in mind that the results from PROFILE will be quite different from that of FAFSA as most PROFILE schools can hit info from those situation quite hard. Also money in a siblings name is considered family assets. </p>

<p>I doubt very much you will get any fee waivers. Schools often have some applications available for free for anyone. It’s not a formal request, at least the way it worked for us. Sometimes just applying by a certain time, applying on line, applying while on site during a visit will do it. Sometimes they will have a code in that bulk mail that your son will be getting in great volume. </p>

<p>When you research schools, make sure they even have the funds to give to you. It makes no sense to apply to school that has a $25K scholarship as their max award and they do not stack any. You should ask admissions about what awards they have, how many of them are full tuition or close to it and if they are stackable. That way you don’t waste your picks. Things change very quickly these days, so asking is the best way to make sure. If you have a bunch of schools, all things equal, you want to go for the ones where the chances of getting the awards you want are the greatest. A school that has one full ride and the rest $10K merit awards is not going to help. Because merit and need are integrated, you won’t beat your need award, so the merit has to beat that need estimate,</p>

<p>Frankly, the way it works for most people in your category, is that it’s very difficult or impossible to beat the state unis and the generous schools’ financial aid awards. if you to schools that are not with what I call the three Rs of Ratings, Reputation, Recognition, that’s where you can get deal, or if your student gets lucky with one of the big awards, but those are a lotteries unto themselves with odds less than getting into top schools. Just in the last 10 years , I’ve seen the number of high dollar merit awards go way down. Someone mentioned Pitt on this threat, and it makes me recall the day that a full tuition award and entry to the Honors College was nearly automatic. No more. They have really cut down the number of those awards too; it’s not just that more students are going for them. There are far fewer to get.</p>

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</p>

<p>Listen to cpt!! We tried applying to many schools who are ‘generous’ with financial aid. We had an EFC over $20K. There was not a single ‘generous’ private school who gave us a penny more than our EFC, and sometimes that included loans.</p>

<p>U Pitt gave a nice grant that would’ve allowed D to attend, but she chose the cheaper in-state option (Pitt was out of state for us). I watched the Pitt board carefully, and noticed that kids with lower stats who applied earlier got even better awards, so if you apply to Pitt do apply early, they have rolling admissions, I’d say by mid-November latest for the best aid. And make that essay count!</p>

<p>Really take a hard look at the math here: </p>

<pre><code> Annual cost of attendance $60,000
Your EFC 20,000
MAX aid you will get 40,000, probably including student loans
</code></pre>

<p>That’s IF the school meets full need. There’s really no getting away from your EFC unless your kid gets a fabulous scholarship and as cpt pointed out, they become more scarce every year. So you need to have $20K a year 1) saved, 2) available from your earnings, or 3) be willing to borrow it. Think Parent Plus loans. AND your kid will walk out of school with at least $27K in loans. </p>

<p>The reality is harsh, but I have to agree that Tier 1 is probably not going to work out financially. Allow application to one reach and then move on to more likely options.</p>

<p>I know I’m repeating what others have said, here, but it bears repetition, I think. It’s really hard to accept that we have to lower our sights for our kids, but I think it’s much better to do that now and work with the situation as it is. There will be less disappointment later. And getting your child involved now, understanding the financial parts of this decision, is a great gift! It may motivate your son to start looking seriously for viable financial options sooner rather than later.</p>

<p>Last, you might want to re-think how much you want your son to work during the school year. If he gets merit scholarships it’s always with the stipulation that grades stay up to a certain minimum. That could get tough with too many hours of work. Kids have the most trouble first semester freshman year, so maybe at least little to no work that semester in particular so he has time to adjust to college workloads.</p>

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<p>Many schools will also have a required student contribution on top of the family’s contribution, so the numbers can come up higher than that EFC even without primary home equity, NCP, Famiy owned business, significant sibling assets. Yes, it is difficult to “beat” that FAFSA EFC even applying to the most generous schools.</p>

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<p>I like to Thanks to all the folks who replied to my thread with very good info which will help us to too look at all the options available.</p>

<p>answers to some of the question people ask in the thread.</p>

<p>1) Son is looking for some work in the summer but not sure it will be Volunteer or he will get Paid. Mostly hospital stuff. He already finish the mini med school program in winter which normally prepare students for Med School. Highly Selective program and he really likes it.
He is also in National Honor Society for volunteer work…</p>

<p>2) My income will stay same for next few years so if I do my EFC for 2012 it wont change much but I will run some numbers again. </p>

<p>3) I am pretty sure that in the end it will all comes to what we can afford for next 4 Years after the College Aid, Grants, Merit and Loans. I dont want to send him to some really low Tier school just to save 5-10k per year. He need to be in a competitive school program so he can prove to the Med Schools that he is good enough to be admitted if he has the right scores.</p>

<p>4) I think he can handle 10-15hr pr week on campus job and more in summer, so that will add like 2-3k towards his expenses.</p>

<p>5) We will try for all type of loans and the last choice will be PLUS. I am also looking for Refinancing the house in next 6 months and that can save me like 1K per month, plus no car payments after 2.5 yrs and thats another 800 of savings. So we can payoff some of the loans once he graduated. I am not sure what happened to under grad loans when a student moves to Grad program, are they still due after 6 months of graduation or they can roll into grad program and due after Grad program graduation.</p>

<p>6)I am still waiting for his first ACT score and that will really tell us what school he can fit in easily. He normally take Tests easily but put more emphasis on AP classes , GPA and to be #1 in School, he more worried that if some other student can catch him up and he drop to #2 or #3… its like a horse race to him. He is great in MATH/Sciences and been to State Championship twice already and going again next month…</p>

<p>As a parent we all want the best for our children’s but nowadays to get good education is getting far reach for hard working Family’s. I hope the Government can Bail out the Future of this Country (Students) rather then Bailing out Banks, Foreign Countries and Auto Companies…
Hope something good come out from congress about the Student Loan Debt Crisis.</p>

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<p>* I dont want to send him to some really low Tier school just to save 5-10k per year. H*</p>

<p>I don’t know what you consider a “really low tier school,” but schools ranked in the top 150 or so are fine for premed students. It certainly won’t be worth taking out $40k more in debt, along with the debt you already need to take on. </p>

<p>I can understand being concerned about some PodunkU school with questionable science classes, but many, many good schools are fine for pre-med. </p>

<p>Although my kids went to their flagship univ, there are 3 state universities by my home. One is ranked around 120-140 (don’t remember exactly), but is very strong in STEM classes. So, it would be fine for pre-meds (and that school’s students do get accepted to med schools). However, the 2 other state schools near my home are unranked and it is commonly known that they’re not strong in science classes (one is essentially a Teacher’s college.) I would never recommend a premed student attend those other 2 publics. However, attending the STEM strong state school would be more than fine.</p>

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<p>I would recommend reading Lynn O’Shaunessy’s book ‘The College Solution’. She discusses finding an affordable fit for a child and good sources of information and how to use it, such as Common Data sets. Her philosophy is similar to some of the very helpful regulars on these forums. I have found her book and blog, along with the college confidential websites to be very useful along the path to researching potential colleges. It is a learning, and to most of us, eye-opening process. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I saw one mention of Rice. Rice is a well respected school that gives MERIT aid. And aren’t they affiliated with Baylor who has a medical school? Why isn’t your son looking at Rice? And isn’t there some sort of dual enrollment for the medical school? I would point him towards Rice. </p>

<p>And - I wouldn’t run around visiting these uber-expensive schools that you can’t afford (Stanford). Save your money for the application fees and then visit AFTER he’s accepted and you know if you can afford it. Of course he’s going to love Stanford, who doesn’t? But they don’t give merit and you’re not likely to get a lot of need aid from them. And talk about hard to get in!</p>

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<p>The fact of the matter is that with a lot of parents,famiiies, people, there is line or circle drawn as to how much they will pay for what. A family who will refuse to pay for X College and tell the kid he has to commute or go to state U or the school where he got the merit, just might have paid the full price for HPY. Maybe throw all of the ivies in the bunch. Maybe a few more schools. A lot of times folks don’t know where that line or circle is until it’s time to write that check. They can’t stomach the idea of borrowing for X College, it just brings up the bile. But they’ll do it for Stanford. </p>

<p>Sometimes we have an inkling of this tendency in us too. So we say, let’s give it a go at this school or that, and sometimes when the acceptance comes, the tide turns. We’ll pay for Stanford, Harvard, Princeton but not RIce or Wash U. Or for the latter two as well but not for Bucknell, and so it goes. It’s very difficult to draw that line in the sand, and when we do, we might want to move it.</p>

<p>We placed a dollar limit that frankly is too high, but I don’t know, for all my talk, what I would have done if one of my kids fell in love with a school over that cost line that required more of a contribution from us. What if one of them got accepted to Harvard with no need? Would DH and I have held fast? I don’t think so. I don’t think i"m strong enough.</p>

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<p>The trick to Pitt’s merit money is to apply early (app is available in August I think).</p>

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<p>When I said lower Tier school I means most of the State Universities but not the flagship Universities like University of state…Also some of the 4 yr colleges which are very easy to get in.
My son did mention to me that one university he will never apply is University of Illinois Chicago, not sure why he hate that school but to me its a very fine school to Get in and even has a Med Program. He do love University of Illinois UrbanaC…actually most of his HS students end up their and few even get a Full Ride. but they all went in Engineering or Physics major. At this point our first choice is WUS and second choice is UCI/NW and 3rd is DUKE/Norte Dame. Harvard and Stanford are very far reach and we not sure he will even get accepted their but he do love the name Harvard… Who dont…</p>

<p>We only be visiting WUS, DUKE, ND and MU ohio since they are not that far for a good Drive. We already seen UCI and NW…very impressive Campus…</p>

<p>We will add Pitts on our application list too. just to try.
Rice I found out was not offering good Merit to students who were selected and too far also but a very good school for Med Program.</p>

<p>Now come to real world, most probably he will end up with one of the flagship universities like University of Miami, or UAB or UMichigan, NIU, Ohio State, MU ohio. and many more…
My wife also dont want him to go to far from Mid west so that will also play big at the time of decision…</p>

<p>I agree 100% that just to get to Med Program just get into any of the STEM Schools and just maintain a good GPA and work hard for MCAT…</p>

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<p>*You are correct I always link UA at birmingham campus with the Main Tuscaloosa Campus.
They have a campus in Huntsville too. I myself graduated from their class of 1988 from UA at Tuscaloosa… cant forget those years. Actually one of my friend who graduated with me went to school of Medicine at UA Birmingham. lost track of him after that.</p>

<p>Did they ever open the Time capsule they put in front of Metallurgical Engineering building close to Ferguson Center, I put a floppy disk with programs written in Pascal language, I believe it was 1985-86.
… </p>

<p>So what Major your son took and how easily he got admitted in Med School.?
Did he went to Tuscaloosa ?*</p>

<p>I don’t know about the time capsule. sorry.</p>

<p>My son major at Alabama (Tuscaloosa) is Chemical Engineering major. He’s graduating next week.</p>

<p>He applied to only 6 med schools (I know, that’s too low!). He interviewed at 3, and was accepted to those 3 med schools. </p>

<p>When you ask “how easily” was he accepted to med schools, I’m not sure what you mean. He wasn’t put on any waitlists. He was accepted directly in a timely manner. </p>

<p>Is your son going to visit Alabama? It’s changed a LOT since you were a student. Heck, it’s changed a lot since 2005 when I first stepped foot on the campus. Since 2005 over 45 new buildings have been constructed, and many of the others have been remodeled and updated. </p>

<p>You’d recognize the Quad area, but you’d be blown away by the new mega-sized Science and Engineering Complex…it’s 800,000 square feet of STEM space.</p>

<p>Tuscaloosa itself has changed a lot in the last few years.</p>

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<p>@mom2collegekids</p>

<p>He is lucky to get accepted in 3 Med School, he must have done good on MCAT and GPA.
Now a Days Med Programs are getting very competitive and not easy to get In.
My Friends D apply in 42 schools ( yeah 42…) and got accepted in only 2. One in NY and one in IL. she choose UIC… What schools did your S got accepted for Med. ?</p>

<p>I was a BSEE Major so know the Engineering area very good, but sure as you mention I wont recognized it now, The football stadium was built while I was their… Its a Football Mecca to me. I was living just south of Black Warrior River a 13 story University housing shape like a T. very close to Engineering buildings. I think best Grocery store was Brunos…</p>

<p>I went to Georgia Tech for Masters in EE and the Interviewer asked me where I did my BSEE, I told him from UA, he said I dont know they even have an Engineering program I thought they just teach you to play football… I left the room and went to California get a job and went to UCI part time. That was funny of him. I was originally from Atlanta… </p>

<p>I never went back their since I left but did went to Birmingham, Mobile though. Never know son might end up their… It was a great campus.</p>

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<p>Ok so I did some Math and find these numbers. The best so far is Harvard.
My EFC = 17k</p>

<p>and then I did some NPC for few schools. loans not included.</p>

<p>Harvard = 12k, not include Work study.
Stanford = 16K, not include Work Study
WUS = 22k
UCI = 23K
ND = 24K
DUKE=23K
Umiami = 18K
UA = 21K</p>

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<p>UA = 21K</p>

<p>At UA, your “EFC” would not likely really be $21k because of the merit scholarship(s) that he would get. </p>

<p>Assuming that his test scores are high enough that he’d get free tuition, then your remaining costs would be room, board, books, fees, travel, and misc. That’s about $15k (depending on dorm choice, etc). The COA is padded because it assumes that the student chooses the most expensive dorms and meal plans. For us, freshman year was the most expensive year because of the req’d freshman meal plan. After frosh year, son chose a much smaller meal plan. For the past two years, after subtracting for son’s scholarships, we were only paying about about 6k-$8k per year. </p>

<p>Yes, Harvard can be an inexpensive choice since they give “super aid.” However, it is also one of the most difficult school to get accepted to. Along with having very high stats, a student often needs some other hook to differentiate from the other tens of thousand applicants that also have very high stats. Besides top grades, what is on your son’s resume?<br>
If he majors in some area of eng’g or computer science, then he’d get another $2500 per year. That would bring his cost down to about $13k per year.</p>

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<p>*I was a BSEE Major so know the Engineering area very good, but sure as you mention I wont recognized it now, The football stadium was built while I was their… Its a Football Mecca to me. I was living just south of Black Warrior River a 13 story University housing shape like a T. very close to Engineering buildings. I think best Grocery store was Brunos…</p>

<p>I went to Georgia Tech for Masters in EE and the Interviewer asked me where I did my BSEE, I told him from UA, he said I dont know they even have an Engineering program I thought they just teach you to play football… I left the room and went to California get a job and went to UCI part time. That was funny of him. I was originally from Atlanta… *</p>

<p>That dorm bldg has been torn down and a brand new one is going up in its place. There have been at least 10 new dorm bldgs built in the last few years. </p>

<p>The College of Eng’g has likely quadrupled in size since you were there. It now has over 3900 students. The school now has over 1.5 million square feet in STEM academic space. You need to visit.</p>

<p><a href=“http://eng.ua.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/COE-Strategic-Plan-Web-Version.pdf[/url]”>http://eng.ua.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/COE-Strategic-Plan-Web-Version.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>the first page of the link above shows a rendering of the new Science and Engineering Complex, which is 800,000 sq ft of new STEM space.</p>

<p>the bottom link is a general video about the university.
<a href=“http://www.youareua.net/video1/[/url]”>http://www.youareua.net/video1/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I think other hooks might be his weak side.

  1. He is the president of his Math Club and really taking his school to State Championships and doing very well.
  2. He was the only student selected from his school to go to a mini med program which is run by UCI PHDs/MDs . That really motivated him to go for Med Program now, He really want to be a Mathematician and join UCI since they have very good Math Program but now he might do a double major in Math and pre-Med.
  3. He doing lot of volunteer work in school and now Hospitals too. He helps with AP classes to sophomore students. Even helping with Math and Sciences.
  4. Not good in sport but good in swimming and Track.
  5. Now running for president/vice president of the National Honor Society .
  6. Teachers and Adviser and even Dean like him very much and he will get great letters from them . He thinks he could be a Valedictorian since he #1/68x in Junior yr so far, he was #2 in freshman and sophomore. He is very competitive and their is no such thing as #2 or #3 in his dictionary… </p>

<p>I still think he is missing some stuff which these ivy school look’s for like someone do something different… So to me these are high reach schools and one need some good luck just not best grades to get in… But in the end it will all comes down to $$$.</p>

<p>After reading some of the PreMed Schools looks like one need to choose a school which is not a “Cut Throat” and easy to get good GPA and have enough time to study for MCAT.</p>