Financial Aid Assistance

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Here's my dilemma:</p>

<p>I got accepted to Jacob School of Music, and am thrilled about it. Problem is, tuition there is $45,000 a year for out-of-state, which is ridiculous. The merit scholarship I received was $17,000, and coupling that with work-study, I have around $21,000 left to pay. There is no way I can use student loans on all of that. I've e-mailed the financial aid people to ask them if there was a way to waive my out-of-state tuition, and no dice. I am now desperately clinging to the hope that the teacher I want to work with can find a way to get me more aid so that I can realistically attend. Is there anything else I can do? It's getting down to the wire here and I'm freaking out.</p>

<p>Note: my academics are average, so I don't think I'd qualify for any of those scholarships.</p>

2

<p>Do you have better offers from any schools that IU might consider a competitor? Sometimes you can get a school to improve their offer when you are in that situation.</p>

<p>So that we can add you to the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1427644-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2013-a-46.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1427644-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2013-a-46.html&lt;/a&gt; can you tell me of any other schools that you were accepted to, your primary instrument and intended major (performance, music ed, music business and so forth…)?</p>

3

<p>Yeah, there is another school, but there’s no way I’d attend, realistically.</p>

<p>So I got:
Jacob school of music
Florida state
And Eastman waitlisted me</p>

<p>Vocal performance major, baritone.</p>

4

<p>We’re in a similar situation in my house. S’s first choice offered him zero scholarship, and is extremely expensive. He has very good scholarship offers from three other schools, all of which we could manage to pay for and all of which are very anxious to have him. I’ve warned him repeatedly throughout this process that he can’t count on #1 school, and that they are known for being stingy with merit money and financial aid, but he has instead chosen to believe what he hears from the rumor mill that some students have received great scholarships there. I’ve reminded him time and time again that his other schools are excellent choices. But now that #1 school has told him there is no scholarship for him, rather than write the school off since they obviously do not want him as badly as the other schools do, he has chosen to believe he can do whatever it takes and just make it happen. Unfortunately “whatever it takes” would have to include his parents living their old age in penury repaying PLUS loans that would aggregate to more than we paid for our house. He thinks he can just “get loans” himself for whatever amount of money we won’t or can’t pay, and that he’ll somehow work out a way to repay them. Of course neither is true, he can’t qualify for an unlimited amount of loans (not without us as co-signers), and couldn’t possibly repay them if he did. He does work, sometimes as much as 30 hours a week, but that would seem to be impossible with a music major’s schedule and even if it were possible, it’s still just a drop in the bucket toward the cost of #1 school.</p>

<p>His voice teacher has only added to the problem by insisting the teacher he would study with at #1 school is world-class, far and away the best choice and offers him the best possible opportunity for a career, despite the extraordinary price tag. So S is angry with me because I refuse to throw caution to the wind and mortgage all of our futures, I’m angry with him for refusing to accept that sometimes we don’t get to have our #1 choice and good enough is good enough, and I’m angry with his voice teacher for supporting him in pursuing this fantasy instead of encouraging him to be responsible. I thought we’d be celebrating at this point in the year and instead we’re all just angry. He’ll make a choice by May 1, and if it can’t be his #1 school, I imagine he will do everything possible to make himself miserable at whatever school he does attend, to “prove” that only #1 school was a viable choice.</p>

<p>Sorry for the rant, and for the OP, I’ll offer the same advice that my own S ignores. You can’t always get exactly what you want. You DO have options. Make an affordable choice that you can live with. It won’t ruin your life, or your career, while taking on enormous debt could do just that.</p>

5

<p>dobiemama, I agree wholeheartedly. I think the problem is also compounded by guidance departments throughout the country, who constantly harp on “reach” schools (I partly believe they do this so they can have bragging rights as to where their students are accepted) and the nonsense about “private schools can often offer so much money, they become comparable to state schools”, something I have yet to see (going by my own two daughters’ experiences and many of their friends). Maybe that happens for valedictorians or the next Itzhak Perlman, or a bassoon player, but it doesn’t for most. If a private school offers even $20,000, it’s still not close to the state school. And when they talk about aid, the fact that part (or all) of what is offered are loans is kind of glossed over. The problem is, as I’ve seen stated so many times on this board, is that so many of us are too rich for financial aid (NOT loans!), and too poor to pay for college. I really hope things work out for you and your son. To the OP, definitely ask the studio teacher to vouch for you - emphasize that this is your first choice school and that you REALLY REALLY want to go there. We just did this with my daughter at Ithaca and squeezed another $8000 from them in addition to what they originally gave her (and if they hadn’t, she would have gone to the state school, probably pouting about it at first, but I think she would’ve been OK once she was there and in the thick of things - and I hope dobiemama, if your son ends up in this situation, that he’ll OK with it too). Like dobiemama says, do not take on an enormous amount of debt! Best of luck to all.</p>

6

<p>Westwood, do not go into debt. Go somewhere you can afford for undergrad, then perhaps go to an expensive school for graduate studies.</p>

<p>As private schools continue to raise their tuition rates sky-high, while at the same time handing out few scholarships, the value of these top music conservatories will flatten. The talent will spread out among many schools. I am seeing this with the conservatory where my daughter will probably attend. On another thread, people are discussing their appeals for more scholarship money and not getting it. My daughter is fortunate to have received enough money to go, but I can see that others who were also admitted will instead go somewhere more affordable. That leaves the conservatory with lesser players who can afford the cost, and weakens the overall pool of musicians attending the conservatory.</p>

<p>My daughter is currently rehearsing her concerto with a large public university wind ensemble. We have noticed that this wind ensemble is better than the one at the conservatory she wants to attend. Why? Because more and more music students are deciding they don’t want to go into debt to pay for music school.</p>

<p>This is what we would have done had my daughter not received a large scholarship: Enroll at local public university with good music program. Travel to #1 teacher at X conservatory, and take private lessons. Go to top conservatory for graduate school.</p>

7

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<p>There is no way the voice teacher can know the best fit for your S unless they have already worked together in sample lessons. Judging the fit with a teacher based on reputation only can be a mistake. Sometimes the best known teachers are great in polishing grad students who already have strong technique, but not so great in working with the undergrad on that technique. Some of the best voice teachers at the undergrad level are ones few people have ever heard of. The advice the voice teacher is giving seems more appropriate for grad school since connections and rep of the teacher can influence the opportunities presented to the student.</p>

8

<p>Thanks all for the encouragement. Cartera, yes, S has had at least one sample lesson with at least one teacher at every school to which he applied, and several at schools where he decided not to apply based on the sample lesson. Admittedly from the moment they met, he and the teacher at #1 choice school worked very well together. They have similar theories about pedagogy and seem to really speak the same language. That lesson was a critical factor in making this school his first choice, but the teacher is not able to influence the scholarship awards. I’ve made the suggestion that this might be the school he chooses for grad school, but he already has other places specifically in mind for grad school. That may change, of course, but he is not yet able or willing to adjust his viewpoint.</p>

9

<p>Do not go into debt with the parent plus loans, etc. Son has a summer job where 2 of the full timers went to big name private schools and took on massive debt and now they are crippled with student loan payments in excess of $7oo/month. In this economy and especially for music majors, it is too financially precarious to finance the entire education. My son truly wanted to study with another teacher but we wouldn’t sign any parent plus loans so he went to the state school which gave him the best deal. He has warmed up to his studio teacher and son is so happy that he won’t be in debt and that he had money left over to buy a new bass this year. He also found out that many of his fellow students were accepted at other schools but chose the state school because it is affordable. He hopes to try again for grad school with the preferred teacher in a few years.</p>

10

<p>Westwood94, I wouldn’t worry too much if FSU is much more affordable than IU, because there are some great voice teachers at FSU too, including Larry Gerber and David Okerlund. You are fortunate to have two great choices, so don’t feel like you’re missing out if you go to one over the other due to money.</p>

11

<p>I feel for you guys making these hard choices. Last year at this time, there were some hard conversations with tears on all sides. My son’s first choice was Berklee which accepted him with a small scholarship, and we explained to him that it wasn’t really a feasible financial choice. Berklee allows you to defer your acceptance without signing any paperwork and making a deposit, so you can accept at another school without violating whatever the governing rules are. You can also re-audition the following year for reconsideration of the scholarship award. My son did the deferral, and then liked the school he ended up at so much, he did not opt to re-audition. </p>

<p>The application/financial award system sets these poor kids up for this kind of heartbreak. There is no way to know the actual “sticker price” of a school until they give you the financial aid information. Luckily, at my son’s second choice school (Hartt) he was awarded a scholarship, and we were able to get them to increase it by explaining that we had a more attractive offer from another school that he was not as enthusiastic about as he was about Hartt. In the end, it did make Hartt pretty comparable to our state school. But, our state school (U Mass) has a pretty high in state tuition rate. </p>

<p>If a kid really has his/her heart set on a particular school, perhaps that child should defer their acceptance and work for a year to save money for tuition, while continuing to take lessons, especially if the school allows the kid to reaudition for scholarship consideration.</p>

<p>I totally agree that loading up on undergrad debt if you are studying music is completely foolhardy. One of the things we did with our son was to make a “budget” showing what his life would be like if he had $80K in student loans, and was lucky enouogh to get a job paying $30K upon graduation. He was pretty shocked at the impact the loan payments would have on his lifestyle.</p>

12

<p>Prior to applying to schools, there needs to be a conversation between parents and students so that it clear what the parents will be able to provide and how much other sources need to be relied upon. That shouldn’t stop a student from applying to certain schools, but at least they are applying with the knowledge that if merit and grants are not sufficient, they may not be able to attend in the event they are accepted. That doesn’t help the OP now, but it might have made it a little easier to accept having to go to some place else. A financial safety school is one the student would enjoy attending and there is no question as to affordability.</p>

13

<p>My S has been advised over and over again (even from Eric Owens!) not to go into debt for undergrad. As a voice major, it will be many, many years until you have a steady income to pay back any debt. Remember, voice majors are almost “required” to do a Masters and then YAP/apprenticeships. This is a marathon, not a sprint.</p>

14

<p>From someone whose D is now out in the trenches…DO NOT GO INTO DEBT FOR A DEGREE IN VP. Debt is a career killer. Lessons, coachings, accompanists, travel to auditions, gowns, tuxedos,…the expenses only continue after you graduate. I do not care how good that teacher is supposed to be. DO NOT DO IT.
There are hundreds and hundreds of very talented kids, who went to very good schools, and had fantastic teachers but cannot even afford the application fees for professional auditions. YES…in voice you PAY to audition.</p>

15

<p>Westwood, if Florida State is in-state for you, it is a steal, so I can’t imagine why on earth you wouldn’t attend. Extremely economical and solid program. That would do it for me ;)</p>

<p>That said, I understand completely your desire for Jacobs. But I’m a bit confused by the finances in your post. Indianna’s Out of State Tuition is actually $31,000, and if they’ve given you $17 k, they’ve given you a little more than half, which brings it down pretty close to the cost of my son’s in-state school (which is expensive compared to other state schools, but it’s University of Michigan, and is 3-times that again for OOS tuition.)</p>

<p>So while this situation is unfortunate, what plans had you made with your folks about attending an in-state school, for example? If you could manage an in-state school, you would be closer than you think to managing Jacobs. </p>

<p>In your case, with a total cost of attendance of 31k plus 8500 residence plus incidentials…therefore about $45k by your estimate (I think you meant COA, not tuition in your post) here’s a rough breakdown.</p>

<p>So tuition, minus scholarship is $14k, plus 8k plus 6k – though your incidentals shouldn’t actually be that high if you manage your money well.</p>

<p>Let’s say your work-study takes care of your incidentials for argument’s sake and you live within your means in terms of spending money.</p>

<p>That leaves $14k plus $8500 living expense.</p>

<p>For your first year, you will be eligible for $5500 federal loans, available to all students; these rise to $7500 in jr and sr years. Few, if any, students manage to get out of a four year college with much less than $30,000 in debt, and this is considered both average and serviceable. That DOES mean that a big chunk of earnings will go to loan repayment – about $300 - a car payment’s worth each month – but if you want a degree, that pretty much goes with the territory.</p>

<p>So that will leave a deficit of $17k.</p>

<p>With summer employment, even if it means working a few jobs, you should be able to sock away at least $4,000 toward that. I know my son is able to save that on average.</p>

<p>So now you’re down to $13k. What are your parents/grandparents/godparents able to contribute? Had they planned to make a contribution to your education?</p>

<p>Take a deep breath and discuss all this with your folks. But if you have an affordable in-state option, in your shoes, I would not hesitate to exercise it.</p>

16

<p>I don’t know where some of these teachers’ reality check are. I guess they think that because you are paying them, that you have the money to blow. I ran into this with a school counselor at a selective independent high school urging my friends’ DD to go to a VP program that cost more than my friend was making that year. She was one step from being out on the streets and they knew it, as the school was accommodating the student with scholarship and places to stay. State flagship which would have been FREE was not good enough. I had some words with that idiot. </p>

<p>But it often does not do any good. Some people look at it as an investment, albeit a poor one with the returns these most often have. I have a performing arts son, and that he has no loans is such a relief. Some of his friends are on jump ahead of the Sallie Mae phone calls after them for the loan payments and some of their parents are in grave situations. This is the reality. There are masters programs thereafter that often have stipends for those who want specific teachers. It’s not a once in a life time chance by any means.</p>

17

<p>I think the problem is that many of these teachers are from a completely different era. They don’t have kids of their own; their education were nowhere near as expensive, even adjusted for inflation, and they live in a bubble. They are just looking at the best-possible education scenario without any true interest in their student’s future. Also, it’s a feather in their cap to say that their student went on to study with <brand name="" teacher=""> at <grand name="" conservatory="">.</grand></brand></p>

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<p>BTW, DobieMamma, I am sorry to hear of strife at a time you’d all rather be celebrating (and should rightfully be celebrating). It looks like your son has some awesome choices, and I hope he comes to see that. </p>

<p>If the “stingy” school happens to be my son’s alma mater (he graduates in a few weeks!) I do want to say that merit received or not received is not necessarily connected solely to the desirability of the candidate, just for the record. At that school, even merit is to some degree “need informed,” so outcomes can be really variable.</p>

<p>And regardless of what school you’re referring to, I will tell you that my son has had a few OOS friends have to leave his school because the financial burden grew to be too much for their families, and that’s a much tougher thing than to never have gone, IMHO.</p>

19

<p>I have to agree with everyone else, don’t go into debt to finance a music school education (I tell people the same thing about academics, better to get a great scholarship at a school not as prestigious then to pay the $$$ for the prestige school that gives little; it just isn’t worth it, for the boost that a ‘prestigious’ school might give out of college on the first job, isn’t worth that burden.</p>

<p>Yes, the schools are getting more and more expensive and the scholarships are not keeping up, and I reiterate what I have seen personally and heard, merit scholarships more and more are tied to need, if your family income is above what they consider the level to pay full freight, you are more than likely to get little or nothing from the schools. Schools like Curtis and Colburn get top talent in part because Curtis is tuition free and colburn is full ride, so it makes them very, very attractive. Paying 55k a year or more on music school, which is roughly what the top private conservatories are at, is getting to be more and more of a will of the wisp. One of the reasons for at least some of the influx of foreign students, both Korean and Chinese, is that both countries have a burgeoning well off class, and their kids often go into music, and they will be paying full freight. </p>

<p>And yes,teachers often have their head up the other end, part of it is as others have said, it was different in their era, it was easier to get into the schools in many ways and it also was more affordable. Not to mention, quite frankly, that a lot of teachers may not really know much about the teachers, it is like the local violin teacher who hears the name Itzak Perlman and tells the kid he has to go to Juilliard to study with him (no implied anything about Mr. Perlman, from what I can tell he is a very high level teacher and also knows a thing or two about making music:)…reputation is a funky thing, there are ‘famous’ teachers who are great performers but can’t teach their way out of a paper bag, teachers who probably should have retired years ago, or more importantly, teachers that won’t work for the student…and the reputation of the school simply won’t mean that much, if the goal is to become a musician of some sort. Someone can be a decent voice teacher, be able to get the kid prepared, and not have a clue about the current scene, unless someone keeps in touch with people, the teacher may not know more than the student does about schools and teachers. </p>

<p>The other thing to tell your S is more and more, the ‘action’ is at the grad school level, a lot of music students go that route (and for voice, it isn’t an option from what I hear…), and that is where perhaps the great teacher/school might come in. There are people who will tell you if you don’t go to Juilliard or Curtis or wherever, that it isn’t worth going, and quite frankly, they don’t know, they know the name, not the reality…both of those are great schools, with a lot to offer, but they also aren’t the whole shebang, either. If the teacher at the state school is good, if the program looks decent, has a track record, go for the financially solid choice IME.</p>

20

<p>It’s not that I don’t want to go to Florida State (Larry Gerber has made this decision much more difficult by actually calling me to express his interest), but after how Isang in my audition, and the way I connected with the teacher, and also just the way the judges reacted after my audition, I was expecting them to make the cost of attendance at least manageable for me, which hasn’t been the case. I’m still waiting to hear what is to be done with the remaining financial aid, but it’s looking more likely that FSU is where I’ll end up. Which isn’t much of a step down, I’ll admit. But when you love a school so much, it’s hard to walk away.</p>