<p>Im wondering if anyone would be willing to share stories about financial aid. Who was most/least generous, in actual dollars and as a percentage of the program cost, and who made the process easy/difficult? How much negotiation was involved? Would you agree that financial aid is more sensitive to grades/test scores than is admission? And anything else youd like to share.</p>
<p>In general what I encountered was the more the school costs, the more aid is available. My son ended up getting into ane excellent program at a state school, but before that he was going to go to a place where the price tag was about $50,000. But with the aid package that the more expensive school provided we would only have been marginally more out of pocket than the state school he ended up going to.</p>
<p>The exception to this rule was Fordham. They have an excellent BA program in theater, but the aid they offered might as well have been a rejection - and the package was not even finalized 'til after their deadline for acceptance! It was like pulling teeth to get any information out of them. To say that dealing with the Fianancial Aid office at Fordham was unpleasant would be a gross understatement. Apparently they are quite generous with financial aid for atheletes, though.</p>
<p>Also, with regard to negotiation - it is always worth a try. Negotiating came out in our favor a couple of times and I think - not in all cases, but many - the response may be indicative of how much the department wants the student in question.</p>
<p>Thanks, forrest! One more question. Were your sons grades competitive at the 50K school that offered the good aid package (or any of the others?) or was it more a matter of talent?</p>
<p>My son’s grade and SAT scores were good, but not necessarily stellar. Can’t remember the SAT scores, but he had a 95 average. While I can’t be sure I do suspect that his grades/scores might’ve had an impact on the aid package at the more expensive school.
There are some theater programs (mostly professional training BFA programs) who could not care less about your grades. Juilliard, for instance, tells you precisely so on their website.</p>
<p>The only school that gave us anything was CCM. They gave my D $5,000.</p>
<p>My younger daughter is in the BA Theater program at Brooklyn College. She also is in the Macaulay Honors Program, so her tuition is free.</p>
<p>forrest is correct that a schools inability to negotiate “may be indicative of how much the department wants the student in question”, although if they accepted you into the program they most likely are. But, I would not always assume so. If a school or department has no money (or no more money) to give in scholarships they may very well want the student to attend, but simply do not have the scholarships available. It still can’t hurt to ask :).</p>
<p>Well, but if they have SOME scholarship money, then the question is who gets it? How much is based on financial need and how much is based on the school’s desire to enroll my daughter? I don’t expect an answer, exactly, just wanted to say it’s a little unsettling.</p>
<p>These programs are so incredibly competitive…anywhere your d gets in is going to have a great desire to enroll her-- they just picked her from hundreds of others. You might worry about finances but you don’t have to worry that she won’t be valued.</p>
<p>Thanks. I hope you’re right.</p>
<p>“How much is based on financial need and how much is based on the school’s desire to enroll my daughter?” </p>
<p>That will vary from school to school. Some schools have talent and merit money that is in no way linked to financial need. Some schools have talent and merit money that is linked to financial need. Some schools have both. </p>
<p>For example, where I teach we do not have departmental scholarship money for incoming students. However, the university does, and incoming students can apply for those merit grants for incoming freshmen. The university also has some merit grant money that is offered to some incoming students without additional application. I do not believe that these freshman scholarship programs are based upon financial need. However, the university has another incoming student scholarship program to which students may apply where financial need is a part of the equation.</p>
<p>In our department we have small scholarships for which continuing students in the program may apply. Most of these are service, merit, and talent based ONLY, but there is a specific scholarship where a student must ALSO demonstrate financial need as defined by the FAFSA. </p>
<p>I offer all of he above as an example of the intricacies of scholarship grant money at universities. Each school will be different, and may have many different types of programs within the university.</p>
<p>KatMT:</p>
<p>At your university, are students accepted by the department or the university or both? If it is your department that decides, do you have any idea if your prospective students can afford the school or not? And if you do know that it may be a problem, does the department ever request of the university that they provide money for a particular student?</p>
<p>It sounds like the amount of uncertainty on both sides is huge.</p>
<p>Where I teach students have to be accepted into the university and the program separately. So, a student who is accepted to the university but not to the MT Concentration could come to the university in a different major or concentration (currently there is no required audition for the Theatre Concentration, and many students who are not admitted for MT choose to come in the Theatre Concentration.) If a student is not accepted to the school academically they cannot be accepted to the program (obviously ;)).</p>
<p>All of the student’s financial information is confidential. We have no idea during the audition who has filed a FAFSA or not. Even at a school where the audition counts for 90% of admissions I would not imagine that the department would have the student’s financial information. </p>
<p>Some departments might be able to try to make an appeal to the financial aid office on the student’s behalf for more money, but when it comes to merit grants that are not based on talent but on academics and service, I cannot imagine the appeal would have a lot of sway. </p>
<p>Most financial aid packages will have aid (in the form of loans) that will need to be paid back. There are very few free “full rides” to college.</p>
<p>If finances are a concern (which they probably are for most families), it is important to have a few financial safeties on the list as well. These probably should be the same schools that are academic safeties. You would not want the financial safety to be a school you may not be admitted to, nor would you want your academic safety to be a school you may not be able to afford. </p>
<p>Here is a link to a long conversation on the MT forum from last year that might be helpful: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/638768-whos-generous-talent-awards-whos-tight.html?highlight=Financial+Aid[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/638768-whos-generous-talent-awards-whos-tight.html?highlight=Financial+Aid</a></p>
<p>KatMT:</p>
<p>My D has selected a few financial safeties but the more expensive schools are still very appealing. </p>
<p>I’m fairly sure she will be admitted to at least some of them but I don’t have any sense of her chances for financial aid. Your detailed description of the process at your school (thanks) gives the impression that need can matter a lot at your school. I would be happy if this were the case for my D. Her grades are “good but not … stellar,” as forrest said, above, but she is strong in leadership as well as theater. If she has to compete with an academic powerhouse, however, she is in trouble.</p>
<p>The link to MT forum is very useful as well. </p>
<p>Thanks, again.</p>
<p>theater mom, what I’ve found in the years since my D was auditioning/applying, which was in 2002/2003, is that more and more schools are tying their financial aid/scholarship money more strongly with financial need. Even back then, some schools did this but it seems that in the intervening years, it has become more prevalent. This does not mean that academics aren’t a part of the process, though, at those schools that consider academics. What it does mean is that the kids who have excellent academic stats are going to end up with more scholarship money if they also are demonstrating financial need. </p>
<p>There are so many permutations at the various schools, it’s impossible to make too many even semi-definitive statements about how the process works. Each school truly is different. Many schools have very little scholarship money available for talent alone. Often, the schools which are housed within larger universities are going to be in the position of the drama department not having the same amount of merit money available that may be available to students there who are in other majors.</p>
<p>At many of the most expensive schools, one of which my D attended, even those who feel that the f/a package they received was generous, are still going to be left with large loans to pay off at graduation. Or their parents are. The financial aspect of paying for college for these kids who are hoping to have a professional career in theatre is truly an important one to consider, in every aspect. You do not want your student to graduate with a large amount of debt, particularly in this major.</p>
<p>theatre mom – “Your detailed description of the process at your school (thanks) gives the impression that need can matter a lot at your school.”</p>
<p>I am not sure how much that is the case. However, I believe that only some of the university merit grants are tied specifically to financial need, and for those many other factors come into play as well. They do offer non-need based merit awards. Although it is a VERY competitive process. </p>
<p>Of course a financial aid package (with loans, etc…) will be tied to student need. Students who want to be considered for need based financial aid must file a FAFSA. As is the case at most schools.</p>
<p>alwaysamom is spot on about the intricacies of financial aid 
– “There are so many permutations at the various schools, it’s impossible to make too many even semi-definitive statements about how the process works.”</p>
<p>I think that most university websites are pretty clear about what freshman scholarship programs are available.</p>
<p>Thanks, AlwaysaMom. I do understand the impossibility of saying anything definitive which is why I only asked for stories, although all the feedback here has actually been quite useful, certainly including your comments on changes since early in the decade.</p>