Financial Dilemma

<p>Background: I've been accepted to Case Western and Brandeis with a few thousand less than full tuition in merit aid, to Wellesley with 13K in financial aid, the University of Chicago with no financial or merit aid, and two other universities with merit aid that I've edged out of the running. Essentially the battle wages on between UChicago, Wellesley, and Brandeis.</p>

<p>Interest: I want to study econ, public policy, political science, public health, international relations, or the social sciences.</p>

<p>UChicago Brief Analysis: I adore everything about Chicago (besides the roughly 50K a year price), and realize that few degrees are as marketable as an econ B.S. from its top-ranked department. I crave the intellect and intensity of the student body more than anything else, in addition to the gorgeous campus and dorms. Chicago excels in almost every subject I have ever considered. My mom is slightly worried about the intense workload here; I know I would have to work hard. Lots of diversity and I love Chicago, which offers many direct flights home (my mom's favorite point).</p>

<p>Wellesley Brief Analysis: Wellesley has a breathtaking campus and intellectual student body, but without the special curiosity and intensity unique to Chicago. It's also 15K less than UChic per year. They have cross-registration with MIT and amazing professors, and the all-girls thing is not a huge deal (though I don't like their community bathrooms and small rooms). I understand the Wellesley name has considerable prestige (and its in Boston). Lots of diversity.</p>

<p>Brandeis Brief Analysis: Rounding out the top three, Brandeis will require no loans and I should be able to take it a little easier academically. They have a reputable health policy program and several famous professors (social policy is excellent here as well). Small classes, proximity to Boston, and lots of merit aid set this college apart. However I'm worried about the community bathrooms and cramped housing, the few larger class sizes in the first year, and less-intense or intellectually curious students. I have no problem with the large Jewish population, but there's not tons of diversity on campus, and the buildings are not in wondrous condition. </p>

<p>Questions: Is paying back a $120K loan for Chicago (probably with a econ degree) feasible, even if I have to postpone grad school to pay off my dream education? (aka will the lower living cost but similar pay in chicago compared to boston and the prestigious UC degree allow me to pay off my loans in a reasonable time frame?)
Should I take the more moderate $50K in loans at the similarly well-reputed Wellesley?
Or should I take on no loans and go to Brandeis, which is also an excellent school? (aka should I compromise a few small preferences to save a lot of money but pass up the spectacular Chicago experience? or even the unique Wellesley one?)</p>

<p>............I'd appreciate any advice, insights, or comments</p>

<p>
[quote]
Is paying back a $120K loan for Chicago (probably with a econ degree) feasible, even if I have to postpone grad school to pay off my dream education? (aka will the lower living cost but similar pay in chicago compared to boston and the prestigious UC degree allow me to pay off my loans in a reasonable time frame?)</p>

<p>Should I take the more moderate $50K in loans at the similarly well-reputed Wellesley?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First of all are you even in a position borrow this kind of money. As an 18 year old with a limited credit history and lack of a co-signer (probably your parents), my answer would be no.</p>

<p>Since you state that you got no money from Chicago and are 15k short at wellesley, is it safe to assume your parents are reluctant, can't/won't pay/borrow this money? Have you even discussed this with them</p>

<p>take the full ride at Brandeis, graduate debt free and don't look back</p>

<p>If you were my child I would have said it is between Brandeis and Case Western, all others are out of running...</p>

<p>Who in the world is going to give you a $120k loan?</p>

<p>$120k at 8.5% (if you could get, which I seriously doubt) comes to $1,487.23 a month, every month, for next 10 years. But again, I doubt this is really a dilemma, because I doubt there is a lender who is going to give you $120k, even at a higher interest rate. (It will be slightly less because you are taking out the loans over time, but slightly more because you'll have to start paying them back from day one.) So this is rather like saying, "Gee, I'd like to buy an island near Aruba, but I haven't got the ready cash, and no real way to prove I can pay it back. Could you fork it over to me, please, preferably at a low interest rate?" Is your mom seriously allowing you to consider this option? (weird parenting, but people are different.)</p>

<p>The Wellesley option - $50k at 8.5% (again, I doubt you can get it) works out to $619.93 a month for 10 years.</p>

<p>So I take this to mean your parents are in no way capable of paying the EFC (as figured out by Wellesley?) Otherwise, you wouldn't need $50k in loans? </p>

<p>If community bathrooms and cramped housing are your only issues at Brandeis, consider that Chicago might cramp your bathrooms and housing for the next decade after graduation.</p>

<p>The loans of which I speak would be my parents', and yes I've discussed this with them. My father favors Brandeis and my mother is convinced of UChicago; culturally both are unused to loans, but my mother is willing to take them. I've actually made the decision for Brandeis in my head several times but I keep encountering people who say 50K in debt is not unusual, and others who say that a UC econ education earns enough to pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time. Though I've resigned myself to the idea that UC is simply too expensive, I'm posting to see if someone can give me concrete proof or explanation of why UC would be feasible/worth it before I give up the dream entirely (one very last chance).</p>

<p>If your parents are really willing to fork over the extra $120k, consider this: if you go to Brandeis, you have $120k extra to spend on your education. Trips to Europe for the next four years. An unpaid internship in Geneva following graduation for two years. The start-up for a political consulting business. Two years learning to paint on the south coast of France. The list could go on.</p>

<p>Is Chicago worth Brandeis + $120k in educational opportunities, or a downpayment on a big house?</p>

<p>Are your parents planning on a second mortgage? Or current lending rates (11.5 - 12%?)</p>

<p>the average economics graduate at mit (a comparable but probably better degree, uchicago password-protects its statistics) starts at around $53000. $18000 in owed debt for ten years puts that number at $35000. average graduates from penn state make more than that.</p>

<p>come on, youre going to be an econ major! (i kid, i kid.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
the average economics graduate at mit (a comparable but probably better degree, uchicago password-protects its statistics) starts at around $53000. $18000 in owed debt for ten years puts that number at $35000. average graduates from penn state make more than that.</p>

<p>come on, youre going to be an econ major! (i kid, i kid.)

[/quote]

Consider though, that an average MIT grad will most likely earn much more than that in even a few years.</p>

<p>However, it is absurd to take a 120k loan over a near full ride, for any university.</p>

<p>Worried about bathrooms, etc.? Have you really taken a look at some of UC's dorms? I think one of the dorms cornered the market on battleship grey! I know it's hard, but D turned them down last year, too, when their FA package wasn't as good as others. And when I spoke to the FA counselor, I was told that my D should go to one of the other schools, since they were good, too. Best advice they could have given us. She is thrilled where she is, and we aren't killing ourselves and she won't be in debt when she graduates. This was a major consideration. You DON't want to start out life with HUGE debt )even if you could get the $, which I seriously doubt.) Some won't kill you, but...I agree with lindalana. And if you want grad school, that is what people will remember, not your undergrad. You have to understand one rule of economics - you get loans when you really don't need them. Tougher to get when you really need them. Banks and lenders want to know that you will be able to pay them back. And with this huge amount will continue to pay and pay and pay and pay for many years to come!</p>

<p>FWIW, I have my master's in public policy, with an emphasis in economics. Nobody ever asks me where I went to undergraduate school. </p>

<p>Yes, UC is fabulous, but 120 k is pretty cool too.</p>

<p>Go to U of Chicago.</p>

<p>You'll never get another chance to be an undergrad at of U of C, and no matter how well you do at a cheaper/lesser school (and there's no doubt you can do very well, no matter where you go to school, if you put yourself into it), you won't ever again be able to duplicate the opporunity Chicago offers you... </p>

<p>As for paying for it...if your parents are willing to take out the loan (whether you or they repay it, or some of both), in addition to low-cost loan money from refinancing a mortgage (or taking a second), investigate Parent Plus loans...currently, the rate on those loans--which will provide the full COA--is capped at 8.5%...no need to go for mini's more expensive loan money. Using mortgage money can be very attractive, too -- definitely worth putting pencil to paper and figuring it out...</p>

<p>As for repaying the loans...I've done it both ways...went to the "cheap" big state university, as the only affordable (and it was just barely affordable then!) option for undergrad; graduated w/only a small loan that was repaid w/in 3 years--and before I went back to law school. Then, I went to the expensive elite private for law school...yeah, I had BIG student loan payments when I graduated--at least they were big, relative to the size of my starting salary paycheck, at the beginning. By the time I paid the loan off, though, they were "no big deal small"...in fact, I paid the loan off 6 years early because the total payoff amount was "do-able," and the monthly payments were getting to be a nuisance...</p>

<p>Yes, you can pay off the $120K loan...it will pinch at first...but you'll be used to pinching...aint no such thing as a "rich college student"! You'll be used to living poor so living poor for another handful of years after you graduate won't phase you (at least that's how it seems to work out for most kids)..."poor college student" is definitely the norm.</p>

<p>I'm a HUGE believer in going to the best school (for you)...if it takes loans to afford it, and if you don't mind the idea of carrying the debt, then go for it. Most likely, your earning power will within a handful of years outstrip the "pinch" of the loan...</p>

<p>Of course, it's a risk...you could get to Chicago, decide Econ isn't for you (and you're right, Econ is a marketable degree), and instead decide you must have a degree in early childhood education, where the max earning potential is about 14 cents an hour (an exageration, but you know what I mean)...you DO limit your future options by deciding to borrow to go to school...it commits you to learning/earning so that you can repay it...you must be willing to assume that risk.</p>

<p>But you sound very much like you know in your soul that Chicago is your best fit, and that you'll be happy studying in a field where your earning potential is very good...so I say, go for it!</p>

<p>And whether you decide on Chicago, Wellesley, Brandeis, or Case--congrats on the achievement that earned you those choices! You'll be a winner whatever you decide...</p>

<p>
[quote]
Go to U of Chicago.</p>

<p>You'll never get another chance to be an undergrad at of U of C, and no matter how well you do at a cheaper/lesser school (and there's no doubt you can do very well, no matter where you go to school, if you put yourself into it), you won't ever again be able to duplicate the opporunity Chicago offers you... </p>

<p>As for paying for it...if your parents are willing to take out the loan (whether you or they repay it, or some of both), in addition to low-cost loan money from refinancing a mortgage (or taking a second), investigate Parent Plus loans...currently, the rate on those loans--which will provide the full COA--is capped at 8.5%...no need to go for mini's more expensive loan money. Using mortgage money can be very attractive, too -- definitely worth putting pencil to paper and figuring it out...</p>

<p>As for repaying the loans...I've done it both ways...went to the "cheap" big state university, as the only affordable (and it was just barely affordable then!) option for undergrad; graduated w/only a small loan that was repaid w/in 3 years--and before I went back to law school. Then, I went to the expensive elite private for law school...yeah, I had BIG student loan payments when I graduated--at least they were big, relative to the size of my starting salary paycheck, at the beginning. By the time I paid the loan off, though, they were "no big deal small"...in fact, I paid the loan off 6 years early because the total payoff amount was "do-able," and the monthly payments were getting to be a nuisance...</p>

<p>Yes, you can pay off the $120K loan...it will pinch at first...but you'll be used to pinching...aint no such thing as a "rich college student"! You'll be used to living poor so living poor for another handful of years after you graduate won't phase you (at least that's how it seems to work out for most kids)..."poor college student" is definitely the norm.</p>

<p>I'm a HUGE believer in going to the best school (for you)...if it takes loans to afford it, and if you don't mind the idea of carrying the debt, then go for it. Most likely, your earning power will within a handful of years outstrip the "pinch" of the loan...</p>

<p>Of course, it's a risk...you could get to Chicago, decide Econ isn't for you (and you're right, Econ is a marketable degree), and instead decide you must have a degree in early childhood education, where the max earning potential is about 14 cents an hour (an exageration, but you know what I mean)...you DO limit your future options by deciding to borrow to go to school...it commits you to learning/earning so that you can repay it...you must be willing to assume that risk.</p>

<p>But you sound very much like you know in your soul that Chicago is your best fit, and that you'll be happy studying in a field where your earning potential is very good...so I say, go for it!</p>

<p>And whether you decide on Chicago, Wellesley, Brandeis, or Case--congrats on the achievement that earned you those choices! You'll be a winner whatever you decide...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But is the "experience" of Chicago worth 120k? Have you considered maybe staying at Brandeis for two years, then transferring to Chicago or a similar instution of that calibre for your last two years?</p>

<p>Something to definitely ponder about.</p>

<p>I taught at Chicago. I'd take Wellesley straight up (at the same price.) </p>

<p>But there's no accounting for taste.</p>

<p>Kaulie, go to Brandeis.</p>

<p>If you want to major in economics, then I would suggest that the first order to business would be to apply a little bit of economic common sense to the situation. $120K debt for one highly respected college vs. -0- debt for another. </p>

<p>And for what its worth, my daughter has already turned down her spot at Univ. of Chicago. I'm with Lindalana on this one -- the colleges that didn't give my daughter adequate financial aid were off the table. Any deciding that needs to be done must be a choice between affordable options.</p>

<p>I wish that CC would set up a scholarship fund, with all posters who urge others to follow their dreams despite onerous debt required to donate a mere 1% of the debt being discussed to the fund. That would be a $1,200 contribution from all those who vote "Chicago" here.</p>

<p>Sorry, but I think you'll deeply regret borrowing any of that money when you've got great schools that are virtually free. Do yourself and your family a favor. Be smart and frugal. Case is a great school. Why did you rule it out? MANY kids would kill for that scholarship. </p>

<p>Pay off a $120K loan? You really have NO CLUE how hard that will be and how dearly you will pay at a time of your life (post-college) when you could be having fun, doing exciting things, maybe taking a risk or two. Instead you'll be stuck barely scraping by.</p>

<p>MIT is arguably #1 in econ, although Milton Friedman fans would beg to differ. Choose Wellsley and take econ at MIT, if you want.</p>

<p>I agree that it would be of interest to know why you are no longer considering Case.</p>

<p>I, too, am skeptical about $120K in college loans. </p>

<p>Getting a good education depends primarily on you, not on where you are. You can get a good education at many, many places--in particular, at Brandeis, Case, and Wellesley.</p>

<p>I researched all my schools thoroughly before applying to each so I know that Case is another good match-- I have not necessarily stopped considering it. But after much deliberation I concluded that Case is indeed an excellent school with more grad programs and better research, living, and campus conditions than Brandeis, but Boston (other colleges, internship opportunities, the city), Brandeis' excellent public health faculty, and the proximity of friends and family on the East Coast tip the scales in Brandeis' favor.</p>

<p>It would be relevant IMO to know your attitude towards risk. Are you generally a risk-taker/entrepreneurial kind of person, or are you averse to the ups and downs that often go with risktaking? </p>

<p>How self-confident are you? </p>

<p>How well do you tolerate uncertainty? Take now, for example. Are you a bundle of nerves over your college decision, or are you pretty comfortable that you'll come to a good decision and that things will work out?</p>

<p>And: what do you have in mind for a career, or at least for several years after college?</p>

<p>You do seem like an analytical, no-nonsense, tough-minded kind of person who would fit in well at Chicago. But, on the other hand, as someone pointed out, you can get top-ranked economics at MIT via Wellesley.</p>

<p>Money issues aside for a moment, you really should take the common bathrooms/cramped housing issues off the table. Common bathrooms are a fact of life for virtually all freshmen - they all survive. Cramped housing? Add to that a little filth and a lotta noise - and you've pretty much got your typical dorm room. No matter how big the rooms are, the students seem to fill them up with enough junk to create a fire hazard.<br>
As for the money, I cannot imagine anyone taking out $120K in loans to fund a college education. If your parents haven't managed to save anything up to this point to pay for your education, then they don't have the resources to borrow this kind of money.</p>