<p>newyorker,
thank you for your comments. Do you advise families with children applying for admission? In the next few years should marginal full pay applicants reach higher and apply to schools that they would not apply to in normal times? Am I mistaken in assuming that the top level schools should have no difficulty at all reaching the desired 55-60% of matriculants at full pay?</p>
<p>Article that was in the WSJ today:
Beyond</a> Hand to Mouth Private Schools Feel the Pinch Amid Recession</p>
<p>From the New York Times:</p>
<p>Data Show College Endowments Loss Is Worst Drop Since 70s </p>
<p>saer, efc means literally "Expected Financial Contribution" (or estimated, ugh)</p>
<p>if you put in your information accurately and you really got up with 138, that means you can only pay for 138 dollars of your tuition. which wouldn't really dash your hopes, instead if let's say, exeter accepted you, they would do everything to meet your need for the other 40kish dollars you need</p>
<p>schools that say there are need blind are still need blind right?</p>
<p>Yesterday, Brandeis announced that it would sell all its art, and convert the Rose Art Museum into an arts center. Museum</a> backers seek halt to selloff - The Boston Globe</p>
<p>This move would have been unthinkable last year. I can only assume that the university is in serious financial trouble.</p>
<p>scubasteve,</p>
<p>"Need blind" means that a school reviews applications (and accepts or rejects applicants) without paying attention to whether they are requesting financial aid. Many schools are "need blind". The next stage, though, is whether a school provides "100% of demonstrated need". Those schools would take any student that has been accepted in the admissions process, review their financial aid application, and then provide all the financial aid that the family needs to be able to afford to enroll the student. While many schools are "need blind", few schools can afford to provide 100% of demonstrated need.</p>
<p>At the schools that cannot provide 100%, the financial aid committee will prioritize applicants for financial aid and give as much aid as possible to the students who are most highly desired by the school, keeping in mind that they want to enroll as much of the accepted pool as possible, but that they can't give away more than the financial aid budget allows.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>
[quote]
the financial aid committee will prioritize applicants for financial aid and give as much aid as possible to the students who are most highly desired by the school
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Which is why I have always said that all financial aid is, in this sense, competitive and merit based.</p>
<p>But surely, sbergman, they don't consider those students who they admit that they cannot meet aid in the yeild figures? I mean, they don't actually plan on them coming? There was a statement in one of the articles I linked earlier in this thread that some schools have the policy of denying admission to students when they can't meet the FA need. The problem is, they don't tell them that they were denied because they know they can't afford to come anyway. I suppose denying those qualified students who are poor is yet another way to keep the admit rates low and yield high. It's a shame. I know that if (when) my children are rejected because we need FA, it would be quite a consolation to know that the rejection was nothing personal. It might save a few tears.</p>
<p>Some schools state that it is their policy to only admit students for who they can meet their demonstrated need. Hotchkiss is one, I believe. It would be nice, however, to know if that is why you were denied.</p>
<p>I don't understand how the schools that advertise they are 100% need blind and meet all of the need of the students truly do that. How is it that the percentage receiving aid is roughly the same as most schools (40% range). Is it a coincidence that at every school 60% of the applicants can afford to pay in full?</p>
<p>This is from the SPS website. In the past, I have seen SPS refer to themselves and others refer to them as "need blind". Not sure if this is a change due to the current economy, the financial crisis and the impacts on endowments, or if it is just a more accurate portrayal of the reality of applying for FA:</p>
<p>Q. Will applying for financial aid affect my child's chances for admission?<br>
A. St. Paul’s provides need-based financial aid to most admitted students who demonstrate need, but the admission process is not 100 percent need-blind. In limited cases a family’s need for financial aid may influence an admission decision.</p>
<p>Speaking from experience, a school that will admit you even when they know you can't afford it is no better than being rejected. It felt like a cruel joke to me; I liken it to those cartoon scenes where a horse it running on a treadmill, with a carrot hanging just beyond its reach.</p>
<p>Sometimes, ignorance really is bliss.</p>
<p>starcrossed: ahhh that just made me really sad :( but it is the cruel truth</p>
<p>Private</a> northwoods school to cut back -- chicagotribune.com</p>
<p>Boarding school review lists the endowment as $202 million. That is probably not today's figure.</p>
<p>Watertester posted this on another thread but I thought I would repost it here as I think it is pertinent to this discussion:</p>
<p>A thread you may be interested in </p>
<hr>
<p>Sorry I don't know how to post the link. This was posted in the general admission section but didn't seem to draw enough attention from parents, which I think it should. From what I see, the situation described has a greater impact (negative) on middle/upper middle class families who are applying for FA. What do you think?</p>
<p>Exonian Article I just read </p>
<hr>
<p>Hey guys, this article had a ton of interesting info. I'm going to type it onto here, sorry if I make some typos but you guys will want to read it. </p>
<p>In Down Economy, Interest Up
"The economic downturn evidently hasn't dampened interest in the Academy yet, with interviews with prospective students up 45 percent from last year, admissions officials say.
Application for financial aid are up too, with 66 percent of prospective Exonians applying for aid this year, according to Admissions Operations Manger Lisa Jennings.
Officials suggested a deepening recession could affect the school's financial aid program. The board of trustees will discuss the downturn when it meets next week. " We probably will have not enough money to continue to be like we have been for the past three years," Admissions director Michael Gary said. "We might go back to the policy that families we admit, we will fund at the level that they need." Admissions plans to prepare a healthy wiat list of students this year because "when the family has to actually make the commitment and write that check, they might get cold feet," Admissions Officer Lee Young said. Young said the Admissions Office is "surprised that the [interview] numbers are up" in such dour economic times. " You wouldn't ever know that there is an economic crisis because of the volume," Senior Associate Director of Admissions Susan Herney said. "At this time of the year if you come to Bissell House on any day the living rooms would be filled." Campus interviews are up twenty-three percent and off-campus interviews are up 149 percent. Admissions received twenty-two late applications so far, up from last year's nine. "In past tough economic times, families whose children attend boarding school tend to have a delay in the impact of the recession they are well-off and will not be losing their job tomorrow," Gary said. "If they did lose a job, they would most likely have savings. It is my sense that it will be somewhat delayed." Despite the recession, Admissions is continuing the mission to admit youth "from every quarter." The office has hired two new officers, whose main goal is to travel throughout the United States, looking to attract student, especially from working-class families. "We had to tackle stereotypes regarding boarding schools," Young said. "The kids may get excited, but then you have to convince the parents that boarding school is acceptable. These officers visit schools and hold reception in order to educate parents on Exeter." In fulfilling he "youth from ever quarter" statement, the Admissions Office has developed a list of goals that they hope to accomplish within the next five years. they are aiming to educate and spark the interest of students from the mid-west as well as from abroad. So far, there are 187 students applying from middle America, 11 prospective students from Eastern Europe, eight students from the Middle East, and nine students from South America. All admissions officers, with the exception of Young and Herney, traveled 30 to 50 days of fall term In addition to visiting many Asian countries, Gary expanded his scope to include Israel, Croatia, Mexico, and Brazil. Herney said, " We keep trying to increase the diversity whether geographic, racial, or religious Every year we get better in each of those categories." ONe thing that hasn't changed is the quality of the students applying to the academy, the officers said. "I interviewed two kids on Friday and they blew me away," Young said. "The quality is still really good. I believe it will still remain really competitive [to be accepted]." Young said the Academy's financial situation is better than its peer schools. "Our financial aid fund is very healthy, probably healthier than any other school," Young said.""</p>
<p>Alright guys, I just finished sight-typing that whole thing, sorry if i mistyped anything that took my a long while, but i thought it would be very important to you guys applying to exeter. Thoughts? Comments?</p>
<p>That article is a very interesting find and provides a lot of color on how admissions officers are approaching things. I expect a lot of schools will utilize a larger waitlist as a enrollment management tool this year since there is so much uncertainty. Older patterns regarding yield rates, etc. may no longer hold true. SPS used the larger waitlist last year to help manage enrollment, since they had overenrolled the previous year. </p>
<p>One comment in the article I question:
"In past tough economic times, families whose children attend boarding school tend to have a delay in the impact of the recession they are well-off and will not be losing their job tomorrow," Gary said. "If they did lose a job, they would most likely have savings. It is my sense that it will be somewhat delayed.</p>
<p>This go round, many highly paid folks, e.g. Wall Street Bankers, are losing their jobs, and many more have seen their portfolios cut in half by the stock market, or worse, by Madoff and other ponzi schemes. </p>
<p>I was surprised to see 22 late applications. I guess that application deadline is softer than I would have thought - or perhaps only for the "right" candidate.</p>
<p>And - "We might go back to the policy that families we admit, we will fund at the level that they need.", which sounds to me they tend to "over-fund" the families they admitted, which was good news for middle/upper middle class families applying for FA. That would help some families that have double wager earners, much more than 75K but still find themselves with little savings and struggling to get ahead make up their minds in sending their kids to an expensive BS. Now, if they only meet the "real need", they will for sure lose some families of the kind mentioned above. No wonder they'll need a longer waitlist.</p>
<p>My interpretation of the "We might go back to the policy that families we admit, we will fund at the level that they need.", quote is that they would do this instead of the current practice of being both need blind in admissions and also meeting the need of admitted students. It is risky because the school can project FA budget, but can't set an FA budget for new students ahead of time. I don't think it's right to do this in the middle of the admission cycle though, especially after admisssions has been on the road extensively encouraging youth from every quarter to apply. I think if they need to make the change, it should start for those who apply next year.</p>
<p>I agree with Inquiring Mind. It sounds like they are reverting to the original policy of not having a blanket 100% package for any family earning 75K or less. They will now look at each families' situation to see what their actual EFC is.</p>
<p>On the positive side for schools, all this is not happening in a bubble. The turmoil affects the the world, too. For many parents, the "safety" is the local public school. When governments have to cut their budgets, schools are always targeted for cuts. </p>
<p>I see many signs in my daily life that people are cutting out luxuries from their lives. Most people believe that a private education is a luxury. I agree with Sbergman, though, about the value of a good education. You can lose any material possession. A good education is a gift to children which cannot be taken away.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to see a bullet list from a Prestige school trustee meeting on how they will be able to meet current demands and ensure the future of their school. The swell in FA students applications are only a part of the pie. Rising energy, labor costs, taxes plus shrinking portfolios, endowments & gifts will only get worse in the years to come. Until recently, this country has had a terrific economic run, now it is time for everyone to tighten their belts to ensure that there will be a future for these beloved institutions.</p>