Financial question

College Majors Musical Theater Major
21

@halflokum Let’s put aside the “how much a school wants you” factor and stick to what is known as per the common data set which is a published document.

On average NYU meets approximately 70% of need for students with financial need. That is based on whatever formula the school is using. (I believe it’s a combimation of FAFSA and CSS profile these days.)mSo if the FAFSA/CSS profile is showing that they can afford to pay $35,000/ year and the cost of attendance is $70,000, then they have another $35,000 in need. On average NYU will meet 24,500 in aid (70%). But part of that will probably be in subsidized loans and work study, with the balance being a grant.

The OP said that they would not be getting much aid, which implies that they might be eligible for some. So I would advise them that the amount of aid they can expect would be 70% of their need, what ever that may be.

Now for the trickier part—there are pages and pages of info on NYU that do say that if they really want you, that the percentage of need that is met goes up. That is not a Tisch or Steinhardt specific thing, but true for all schools at NYU. Let’s just say that if they meet more than you expect, that a school is making it easier for you to attend. But in general, NYU is not known for meeting full need and does so in special cases.

Using the example I gave, maybe NYU will come up with another $5,000 in grant money in those circumstances So someone who gets great need based aid with the stats I used as an example would get a subsidized loan, work study, and a $20,000 scholarship.

If the OP does not have need at all, I would still advise them that Tisch is making it clear that they do not give merit aid without need in all that they publish, but that Steinhardt has published that they do.

I would advise that people read the latest common data set carefully for all schools they are considering so they can compare the amount of need met from school to school. It will also give info about merit aid for those without need.

22

@uskoolfish, I’m happy to set aside the “how much they want you” factor because I think we get into trouble guessing on that. Good plan :slight_smile:

As far as I recall the CSS Profile just reports your assets and income for schools that want it and doesn’t spit anything back to you in terms of what your data means as far as interpretation of relationship to need. CSS also asks for non-custodial parent information if that is relevant which the FAFSA does not. I could be wrong even though I had to fill the CSS out again just a year ago for #2. I’ve blacked it out and at this point I’d rather have splinters hammered up my fingernails than have to find the data to fill that #(#&$)#(% form out ever again.

If it is just a data collection tool reporting income and assets, that leaves a school to interpret that information as they see fit. Which leads me back to the place of advising that it hard to know what NYU may or may not offer in any specific case if you are trying to estimate in advance. There are terribly disappointed applicants every year who post their disgust all over cc but also applicants that end up very pleasantly surprised. And then there are the applicants that get nothing who hopefully did see it coming even if they applied with their fingers and toes crossed. In summary, if I were applying to Tisch for MT anyway which doesn’t have any published non-need talent or merit scholarships (different from Steinhardt) and my FAFSA spits out an EFC number above the cost of attendance, I’d expect to get nothing other than loans and if anything better than that happens courtesy of the CSS profile or other magic, I’d scratch my head and count my blessings. I’d still apply but keep my hopes in check.

Anyway, the OP is really asking about Pace which is famous for coming after academically capable students with very generous merit aid. I don’t know how they do it but they do.

23

Yes I really appreciate all the info. The NYU info is interesting but my D won’t be applying there, after initial consideration. Pace is the only NYC school we are considering besides Marymount Manhattan & Molloy college cap 21. Plus several in NJ and Wagner. I looked up Wagner as we were interested in their summer intensive and its $pricey too of course…

24

New York, New York - it’s a wonderful town!

25

We really had no idea what to expect in terms of financial aid at schools and just waited to see what they offered. It helped for my D2 (MT applicant) that we had two kids in college at the same time and so even D1’s FA package went up by a lot when D2 entered college one year after D1 did. I don’t think it really helps others all that much to know what someone else got because every circumstance is different. It may help to know what is POSSIBLE, but it may not apply to one’s own case. My D got $20,000/year for all four years from NYU/Tisch/Drama in scholarship money, plus loans. In senior year, three smaller scholarships appeared on our bill in addition to that as another nice surprise. I recall when I opened the initial financial aid package when D was admitted to Tisch (it was a separate mailing), I went into shock, as I never expected that kind of money. I recall the moment…D was confined to a hospital bed in our living room in fact.

26

Private universities with a larger endowment are much more able to adjust financial aid as your finances change – which includes, as Soozievt points out, added siblings entering college. This is something to keep in mind as you look at colleges; what appears to be a very expensive university may not be if you are awarded merit or, more commonly, need-based merit. In my own kids’ cases, their very expensive universities have ended up costing less than in-state university for us. This is all very variable.

And again, remember ‘need’ doesn’t have to mean you’re poor. The size of a particular school’s endowment and their stats as to how much money they meet is easily found on their website. It’s really important though to differentiate between loans and grants/scholarships; in the language of ‘financial needs met’ loans and grants are often conflated, but of course they’re not the same at all. You want grants or scholarships if you can get them! :slight_smile:

The main point is that this is a highly individual process with many aspects to factor in. If you do check the ‘will apply for financial aid’ box, also remember that this will statistically lower your chances of getting in, since most colleges are not need blind anymore. (Not all). We had no choice, so we checked the box. I’d do the FAFSA regardless and see what your EFC is–that will help you see if you might qualify for need based. I’ve seen people surprised in both directions. IF you are need, at all, you might then qualify for need based grants/scholarships. Pure talent/merit (without regard to finances) exists for sure, but it is much rarer and harder to quantify especially in MT/theatre. You can’t possibly know how you will measure up against your fellow classmates that year, & what needs the department will have.

It’s a complex non-transparent process, for sure; but you can navigate it! It helps if you put your eggs in several baskets.

27

I have had students receive nice financial packages from schools and leverage them at the school they planned to attend. In almost every case, it worked. If you receive a nice amount of aid from School X, you can always try to send it over to School Y and say that you really want to attend School Y, but School X is offering my child so much more-- is there anything you can do?

I’m not saying it’s guaranteed, but like I said, I’ve definitely heard of it working, if only a litlte.

28

It really depends on the school. A family friend was offered a nearly full scholarship at school A (merit, based on grades/scores) He was also admitted to another school he liked better - with very little aide. He contacted school A, to discuss, and their response was “well maybe you should go to school A”.

29

It definitely depends on the school. At top academic schools, virtually every admitted student had (or could have gotten) a full-ride at a less competitive school, so in our experience top-20 schools rarely match other offers.

30

^^They tend to look at matching offers if the other school is in the same level/ballpark of their school in terms of selectivity, etc.

31

Agreed. I have found the same (not matching or taking other offers into consideration) to be true of schools that are not in the same geographic area, or of similar size etc…

My D had offers that varied widely. We did not discuss the “competition” with any of her admitted schools, b/c they were different “types” of schools, or in different locations. Frankly, a lot of the schools where D applied were not known for super generous merit aide (we don’t qualify for need based - and I think fafsa is ridiculous, but that is neither here nor there) so we didn’t figure there would be much of a point. She did end up with SOME aide at all her acceptances, but milage definitely vaired.

32

@soozievt and @toowonderful, the matching offer I can remember off the top of my head was for a girl who was offered big money from Webster and was academically but not artistically accepted, then sent her offer to Nebraska Wesleyan, who didn’t quite match it, but upped their financial package considerably.

33

I have certainly heard of matching happening- and of course, the worst thing any school can say is “no”. But I (personally) have heard more stories about that tactic NOT working than working. (And I teach at least one class of seniors in HS, so I spend a lot of time listening to financial aide stuff)

34

Please don’t take this as bragging–I’m really not-- but my D did have two schools that wanted to know details about each other’s offers (both of which were generous to begin with), and both kept offering more. So, it does happen. It was a great surprise to us; it’s not something we were counting on at all. I don’t think it’s wise to expect it to work out, but know that colleges do sometimes negotiate with you and compete with other schools.

In D’s case, one was an arts university, and one was a academically-focused LAC. They aren’t geographically near each other. Maybe they are in the same ballpark MT talent-wise (not quite sure), and the programs are pretty similar, but the environments are not. Sizes of the colleges are the same, and the sizes of the classes are the same (both in the major and outside of it), but one MT program is smaller than the other, especially this particular year (when the one who usually has 24 a year had most accept).

35

@theaterwork Wagner College offers excellent merit aid, so don’t write them off because of cost, you might be pleasantly surprised.

36

Definitely keep all your financial aid letters. It never hurts to ask and they may ask you to send a copy of your other award letters. Also depending on how they treat you when you ask can be a sign of how it will be to work with them. I get they may not be able to do anything about it but as someone said early a response they received was “maybe you should go to school A then”. To me that would be a negative because the don’t seem approachable.

37

I purposely planned my children 5 years apart so that I could afford college for them. How frustrating that its backfiring on me in terms of “assistance” with college. Instead I get offered parent plus loans. Oh well. My near full tuition can help out someone else.

38

@connections In regard to your comment:

The main point is that this is a highly individual process with many aspects to factor in. If you do check the ‘will apply for financial aid’ box, also remember that this will statistically lower your chances of getting in, since most colleges are not need blind anymore.

D hasn’t seen the Common App yet, is this a question on it? I ran our numbers on the FAFSA websitee and was horrified to see such a huge EFC. It’s more than any school’s tuition/fees. Given that, should we not check the box? Will that dissuade schools from giving merit aid? Or is merit aid not based on FAFSA or CSS?

39

It varies enormously by school whether merit and need-based scholarships are blurred. You can learn a lot by going to the financial aid section of individual schools’ websites and by using the school specific net price calculators. I was told that my son’s school didn’t even look at FAFSA when they were making FA decisions. There are others where they list up front the scholarships that your kid will be eligible based on scores and GPA. And there are others (Ivies and the like) where there is no merit aid at all, because everyone who gets in is amazing.

40

There was a dad a couple of years ago who did not “check the box” for financial aid until his kid had been accepted and was still able to apply for need-based aid afterwards. (His kid got into CMU, among many others.)