Financial Respect 101

Parents Forum
1

<p>Are college ranking systems useful for working families who want to provide their children with a top quality education? A recent meeting of 121 college presidents discussed boycotting the US News ranking system, with one of the leading participants saying, “rankings have reduced students to consumers, education to product." What’s that? Students and their working parents have been reduced to nothing more than consumers in a marketplace of higher education? From our point of view, a little consumerism might not be such a bad idea.</p>

<p>Our own experience as collegiate consumers began with a letter to Son #1 from a College Dean, asking for a $200 admissions deposit. On college stationery, signed by the Dean, this institution made what we thought was a firm financial commitment: “We shall credit $200 toward your fall term bill.” Their Students Accounts representative explained later, however, that a newly created fee consumed that $200, it would not be credited toward the fall term bill, and notification of parents just did not get done. They were really busy. And no, documentation of the $200 fee and our $200 payment would not be forthcoming, ever. </p>

<p>Can they do that?</p>

<p>Our Son #2 just completed his freshman year at another private university where he made Dean’s List both semesters. That university increased our college costs by more than 50% in one year, with notification not arriving until June. Tuition increased by $1450, and $6850 in financial aid grants were unceremoniously eliminated. Payment for half of this $8300 increase is due in July. It is too late for Son # 2 to transfer to another school for the fall, so our only choice is to pay up. The Director of Financial Aid says he will try to find out why notification was not done sooner, but until then - have a nice day!</p>

<p>Can they do that?</p>

<p>And now our youngest, Son #3, is planning to follow his brothers to college in the fall of 2008. His bedroom overflows with a cascade of colorful college recruitment brochures and his inbox regularly fills with email solicitations. The choices seem endless: a true free-market of higher education. Or is it? While Son #3 can expect even more brochures, post cards, phone calls and online chats encouraging him to apply and attend, Mom and Dad are encouraging him to beware! Based on our experience with two other institutions, we now know that many financial choices, and many free-market economic forces, will disappear with our first tuition check.</p>

<p>Those 121 college presidents may not want to acknowledge the fact, but working class families are, indeed, consumers of higher education. We expect the same consideration and respect from higher education that we receive from private businesses. </p>

<p>Shouldn’t they do that?</p>

2

<p>Seems the best way to be a good consumer is to share specific concrete information.
I'd love to know the name of the school listed in your example No. 2.
Maybe Consumer Reports could help us all out....</p>

3

<p>"Tuition increased by $1450, and $6850 in financial aid grants were unceremoniously eliminated."</p>

<p>That's a huge loss in grants. I can imagine that happening due to an income increase or home expenses diminishing, causing FAFSA to evaluate you differently than when the child began to attend. Once this happened here because an older kid finished college, so the EFC spiked up since part of our finaid EFC understanding was that 2 were in college simultaneously. But it wasn't a surprise to us.</p>

<p>To me, it makes no difference whether $200 is for a fee or tuition, it's all money required to go to that college. But since it is a new fee that you couldn't have known about when deciding to go to the college, that is irritating. </p>

<p>After 2 of ours graduated (one just a few weeks ago), we're left with thoughts about not only the great educations they got, but also how we felt about the financial aid officers treating them and us in phone and mail communications. In our situation, the correspondence was plentiful and humane. There were a few places where we encountered chill hostility in conversations with S-3's applications before admissions decisions came through. While I wouldn't keep him from attending because of weak communication from a finaid office, it was a relief when a few of the nastier ones also declined his application. I repeat: this is no criterion to favor or disfavor a college. The parent has to absorb this, and it burdens kids a lot over something they can't control to hear parents rant about wretched finaid office glitches.</p>

<p>My kids felt too guilty when they thought their educations were causing us any additional stress, and it wasn't a helpful or productive guilt for them. I know that many times my H vented to me but downplayed the problems when discussing it with our kids.</p>

4

<p>The sad fact is that colleges want to have it all ways:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>they want you to believe that they are "above the fray" of crass commerce as their admissions folks attend courses about revenue maximization, hence "merit" awards.</p></li>
<li><p>they want you to believe that so much of johnny's education is paid for by generous and anonymous donors, so please, parents, pony up your share of donations, too. Never mind that these $$ never seem to make it to instruction accounts (the accounts that matter for our kids.)</p></li>
<li><p>they say one thing at admissions meetings and do another behind closed doors.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Colleges are business, but not very well managed ones. We that pay the bills are on the receiving end of these bad practices.</p>

<p>(OK, for the flamers, the above comments do NOT apply to the institution where the kids of any fellow posters are going.....etc. etc.)</p>

5

<p>RCram22--</p>

<p>What a nasty business this college financial aspect has turned into for your family!</p>

<p>In example 1, why wouldn't the new fees be included in the tuition/fees, etc. portion of the college bill and your account show a $200 credit? That would seem the correct way to do the paper trail.</p>

<p>I think purplexed is right that it would be very useful for CC consumers to know the name of School #2. I remember my alma mater would get a lot of kids to come by giving them 1 year renewable scholarships and then rarely renew them. It's not the same as financial aid, but still...if no situation as suggested by paying3tuitions is applicable, then it would be VERY interesting to the parents of future applicants if a school has a propensity to talk sweetly the first year to get you in and then slash and burn your award in future years.</p>

6

<p>Did your grants for S#2 go away b/c your efc shot up, or b/c S#1 graduated? Just a thought. I do have a problem with the summer surprise. The amount is a huge thing to spring on parents at the last moment.</p>

7

<p>Since both of these situations are pending resolution, I'll keep the schools' identitiy confidential ....for now...both are New York State, private, liberal arts/engineering schools.</p>

<p>ellemenope asked : "In example 1, why wouldn't the new fees be included in the tuition/fees, etc. portion of the college bill and your account show a $200 credit? That would seem the correct way to do the paper trail."</p>

<p>The answer: admitted miscommunication among the college's various departments. They just blew it, they admit it, and now don't want to live up to their written promise. They want to back date a charge. What an insult. It takes my son 4 days of his summer job to earn $200.</p>

<p>paying3tuitions says: "cause an older kid finished college, so the EFC spiked up since part of our finaid EFC understanding was that 2 were in college simultaneously. But it wasn't a surprise to us." </p>

<p>Yep, that's what caused the loss of our grants, says the FinAid rep. But it *WAS a surprise to us, and here's why. As Son #1 entered his senior year and was joined on the FAFSA by Son #2 in his freshman year, our EFC for each dropped significantly Did school #1, therefore, increase FA for Son #1? Heck no! Not a dang penny. It was his senior year, he can't transfer, free market economics do not apply. Just pay! But when Son #2's EFC for his second year, with no brother enrolled, showed a steep increase.....college #2 sure had no problem dropping $6850 in grants. </p>

<p>The FinAid rep for son #3's school is sure gonna have some pointed questions coming from this Dad: </p>

<p>"Sir, over the last several years, has it been the policy and practice of this institution to reduce a student's need-based FA because a sibling leaves school and the EFC spikes up?" ...And... "Sir, over the last several years, has it been the policy and practice of this institution to increase a student's need-based FA because a sibling enters school and the EFC spikes down?"</p>

8

<p>You are not the only one that has had a last minute change in financial packages (no consolation, I know). This was just posted under the financial aid and scholarships heading:</p>

<p>
[quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p>

<p>I am having a major financial aid issue. I was accepted into all my colleges and I choose to go to a private university as I felt it was the best fit as well as offering the most financial aid (Tuition per year comes to about $37,500 and my package was for about $36,000). Recently, my mom was contacted by the college and it turns out I lost all my grants as my parents "make too much money" (which I find rather hard to believe as my mother and father are divorced, my mother is unemployed,my stepfather is a cabinet maker and pays child support for his kids, and my father is a carpenter). Due to this, an additional 11,000 dollars has been added on to my college expenses and neither me nor my parents can afford it.
I have no idea what to do as it is July. My mom is having a talk with the financial aid administrator and I'm hoping that the college can offer me more aid but if that falls through I'm lost. Should I be looking into the schools I was accepted in and explain my situation? Should I be looking for new schools? Any advice you can give me would be much appreciated as I'm very worried. Thank you.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>We really don't know the particulars, other than what is posted. It is all one sided, but taken at face value it is quite concerning. Schools do not want double depositing, yet a student like the one who posted the above is now stuck.</p>

9

<p>We lucked out and both kids got accepted to, and will attend, a school that meets 100% of need, as determined by FAFSA and PROFILE. Most kids get grants, plus $1800 work/study, plus student loan (capped at $14625 for the full 4 years.) Some kids get merit aid, and/or preferential packages with all grants and no workstudy or loans. With two kids in college this coming year, the amount we pay out of pocket is almost the same as with just one kid in college. :) (A tiny bit more, but easily explained by contribution from son's assets.) It is very important for those of you choosing a college to ask questions about how your college will change packages in future years. Ask how much the student loan indebtedness is for student's who take out loans (not averaged over ALL students, including those who don't have loans!), ask how much work/study is in the package, and ask if it changes each year. Ask if there is a gap, and if so, how much. And get the USWNR and look at all the financial aid information. If the college only meets 70% of need, chances are NOT good that you will get all your need met, unless you are in the top, top of the entering class and they give you preferential treatment. Ask your questions to Financial Aid in an email, so that you can refer back to their own answers if a question arises. Getting stuck with a big increase or big gap during senior year is awful, but should not be unexpected if you have done your homework. It is important to go into this with eyes wide open! :(</p>

10

<p>Nothing is more effective in educating other consumers than naming names. The whole college thing runs on reputation, and reputations are what they spend millions to create.</p>

<p>There is no confidentiality involved. Without names, it's just a bunch of unconnected anecdotes, and I am unable to make better decisions as a result.</p>

11

<p>anxiousmom, for the OP, grants disappeared in year #2, and in the quote in post #8, from a poster in the FA and Scholarship heading, the grants disappeared before the student even spent a day at the college. Anxiousmom, you do have some excellent suggestions. Just to add, I don't think student loans include those that take out private loans, and it does not include parent loans.</p>

12

<p>mini, the college from that post was disclosed by the OP (from the quote in post #8) as Allegheny College.</p>

<p>I don't want to hijack the OP's thread here, but the 2 financial problems are similar (probably for different reasons).</p>

13

<p>Sorry. I am reading post #8 and still don't see it (but my eyes aren't what they used to be.) Anyway, there are a whole passel of colleges referred to obliquely in this thread, only one of which is Allegheny.</p>

<p>Our financial aid (at Smith) got slightly better every year, and this year, when by rights (or EFC) it should have gotten worse, they were very, very understanding of my wife's illness, lessened capacity to work, and our medical bills - the impact of none of which showing up in the EFC - and we are extremely grateful. They were very easy to work with (though swamped like everyone else in the busy season.)</p>

14

<p>Oh yeah, The OP here states:</p>

<p>"Since both of these situations are pending resolution, I'll keep the schools' identitiy confidential ....for now...both are New York State, private, liberal arts/engineering schools."</p>

<p>Mini, It is very good to hear that Smith was responsive to your family's needs. I had a coworker whose H was not able to work for medical reasons and U of Michigan was so very helpful to their family too (OOS, BTW).</p>

15

<p>Gosh. I thought Allegheny was in Pennsylvania, and I'm pretty sure they don't have an engineering major. (But I could be wrong....)</p>

16

<p>mini, it is in PA. The OP's child goes to college in NY and is not disclosing names. The kiddo with the same problem is the one that goes to Allegheny (kiddo that I was referring to in post #8). Sorry for any confusion.</p>

17

<p>Got it. Thanks. (without any names in the text it is sometimes hard for me to get my head around it. I still think that potential customers are not served well when anecdotes are served up without names attached.)</p>

18

<p>mini - </p>

<p>My OP is an editorial I wrote for Syracuse, NY Post-Standard newspaper. I sent copies of it to the President's of both schools, as well as other personnel there. </p>

<p>School #1's Dean replied that the $200 'new fee' issue will be brought to the 'President's Council' for review, whatever that means. School #1 is Union College, Schnectady, NY. They ought to be ashamed. Their poor Student Accounts person continues to defend the back-dating of a fee.</p>

<p>The President of School #2 emailed me back and was not real pleased. My piece was "innaccurate and misleading." When I re-asserted it's accuracy, he changed to just "misleading." The piece, 100% accurate, speaks for itself.</p>

<p>I have still not heard - as promised - why the tuition increase was not announced to parents until June 2 via one line item in the FA statement. And since son #2 has 2 more years and really likes school #2....it remain "confidential"......as in "College Confidential" :)</p>

19

<p>All interesting, and I'm saving anxiousmom's suggestions.</p>

20

<p>The other thing that merit aid families should consider it that tuition/fees/room/board costs will be thousands higher by senior year. Our son attends Rensselaer(a NY engineering college) and was offered 3 scholarships totalling $25k/yr.</p>

<p>While he continues to receive those scholarships, tuition has increased by $5950 in 4 years and $2400 this year. Fortunately he has saved about $5000/yr by living off campus following his freshman year, a move which more than offset the tuition increases.</p>

<p>I do think withdrawing finaid without reason is a breach of trust if not a breach of contract and there may be more to the OP's situation than was posted since (s)he is batting a thousand in the "get screwed by the college" category.</p>

<p>My bet is that neither college will be getting any alumni gifts in the coming years.</p>