<p>Take a look at US NEws when it comes out next month to get an idea of what schools are need based only. It should also give info on what merit aid is available ( although he would have to probably be looking at outside scholarships as well) and what amount of loans students graduate with.
Duke doesn't necessarily offer much merit aid- Princeton- UPenn doesn't offer any- Johns Hopkins doesn't offer much-Wake Forest offers some full rides and full tuitions.Stanford does offer some, but be aware that schools expect parents to contribute what they can afford and merit aid is usually only given to top students ( he isn't an athlete is he?)
I would peg in numbers of the finaid.org calculator to be sure that your EFC is as high as 30K- even if it is- your commitment to $15,000 should give him some solid options</p>
<p>I have a client whose son was val at the local high school and a top varsity athlete. I congratulated him since it was in the local paper that his son was going to Davidson. Said they offered no merit aid, so he had to have "the talk" with son. He's going to UF.</p>
<p>Oh...I don't know. "Some merit aid" needs to be about $25000 per year for most of the schools (where the cost of attendance is about $40,000 per year including room, board, tuition, books, supplies, recreation, transportation, clothes etc.) Remember...you are only going to contribute $15000 and your EFC is double that. I'm not an adcom...but your son's stats look reasonable enough to me for the schools on the safety and match lists. But those reaches...U Penn and Princeton don't give Merit aid...so don't expect to receive anything beyond the COA minus EFC. At the others, you are counting on getting their TOP scholarships (full tuition) and those go to a small percentage of the applicants. Both Furman and Tulane sound very possible. Personally, I would shorten the reach list to one school especially since it is unlikely that you will fund it if the kiddo gets accepted. Pick the one where you feel he is most likely to get some merit aid and see what happens.</p>
<p>emeraldkity4 I used the finaid calculator as well as Princeton and Dartmouth's. Efc on finaid was a large amount more than the other 2. Does anyone know which of these estimates usually are most realistic. FYI Princeton's came out with the lowest efc #. There was a wide range in the #s.</p>
<p>"I have a client whose son was val at the local high school and a top varsity athlete. I congratulated him since it was in the local paper that his son was going to Davidson. Said they offered no merit aid, so he had to have "the talk" with son."</p>
<p>He couldn't have been THAT good (or he never contacted the coaches), because Davidson offers a ton of merit to athletes (and, relatively speaking, little need-based aid.)</p>
<p>My friend's daughter begins Tulane in the fall. She had a 1380 sat, and a B+/A- student taking the most competitive hs classes. She is from NY. She got a $10,000 scholarship, but the school costs around 43,000 I believe (you can check their website for exact pricing), and they have plane costs, so the school is still going to cost them at least 34,000 even if she comes home only a couple of times/ year.</p>
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He couldn't have been THAT good (or he never contacted the coaches), because Davidson offers a ton of merit to athletes (and, relatively speaking, little need-based aid.)
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<p>You're probably right. He was a soccer player, I have no idea what division Davidson is or how competitive. I do know that many top high school athletes won't make the cut in college.</p>
<p>I would make the reach schools ones that had merit aid, but you need to be realistic. Vandy seems to give the most aid to kids who could otherwise get into ivies, most with 1500 plus on the old SAT. School's ranking higher would be very tough.</p>
<p>Isn't this situation further complicated by the fact that most schools reduce any need based aid by the amount of merit money received? At a school that costs $40,000 the first $10,000 of merit aid would merely reduce the need based aid to zero. I think this is what Thumper1 is demonstrating by saying that "some need based aid needs to be about $25,000" - this is probably close to full tuition.</p>
<p>Merit aid DOES have an effect on need based awards at some schools. For example, this year our EFC was actually LESS than the cost of attendance for DS. BUT his merit scholarship added into that mix meant that we still did not qualify for a subsidized stafford.</p>
<p>I agree with all you've said, lukester (#20). AND, I think you've got a great kid there, who already is making his own lists and evaluating them financially. Some of us with DS's found ourselves doing most of that work (have you read "Accept My Kid Please: A Dad's Descent into College Application Hell?" - that was jmmom's house ;)).</p>
<p>Re Tulane: as I said, that is where my S is headed. He received the DSA, which is $22K/year with GPA similar to your S and lower SATs than your S. He also had ECs showing commitment and dedication, some awards, good essay and great recs (we're told). So I think you can expect good merit $ there (altho of course no guarantees). The DSA at $22K is the second largest merit award, and requires no special app. Tulane also offers about 100 full tuition awards, which do require a separate app, the Deans Honor Scholarship. Your S should look into it; he has the stats, and needs to think about a project to submit.</p>
<p>Cross-posted with several others who are bringing up the need/merit $ coordination. Glad some folks with specific knowledge are here to advise.</p>
<p>Reminds me of another thing: since you WILL qualify for some need-based, even if not a lot (we did not), it matters how schools dovetail need and merit-based aid. My understanding is that Tulane figures your need based and does NOT ding it if they decide to give you one of the merit awards. I understand that some schools take away need $ if they give you merit $. Others will have more info on this, but it's something to watch for.</p>
<p>I had no idea that merit aid effected need based. Is the bottom line that kids whose parent's can't afford much of their EFC ends up at state schools?</p>
<p>(Zagat, not necessarily state schools. Some parents obsessively crawl the boards looking for anomalous situations that work in our kid's favor. LOL. Truth is , we drop twenty-thirty ranking slots down from where their academic matches would be in a perfect FA world. Instead of Davidson we start at Furman , for example.)</p>
<p>Safeties look good. Honors program at both South Carolina and Clemson look great and being instate, you are in great shape.</p>
<p>Matches? Rice is an academic reach, and a merit nightmare. Vandy is a bit more of an academic match but still a merit reachy reach and Tulane is not that far behind for a 1430 kid with a 3.9. (Please congratulate him for me for such a fine high school record. ) If he gets $22k he still has a bill for $23K left, and that's for the next to the top scholarship. These schools should be the reaches for your son, not the matches. Now Furman is getting closer. He likely won't be that competitive for the top scholarships, the Lay scholarships. But merit aid is extensive and it's a cheaper COA to begin with, something we tend to overlook. $20k at Furman is equal to @$30k at Tulane. Furman probably is a true match. Not a sure deal, but a very real match.</p>
<p>Reaches? Your kid has worked very hard and it's my opinion that for my daughter and your son and all these middle class kids who find themselves in this hole , that they should get a couple of lottery shots. I have zero problem taking a couple of flyers as long as they know they are flyers. There is not a school on the reach list that provides a greater than 5% chance of selection + affordability. Princeton's efc calculator is way better than anybody else's for us, so maybe for you too. But that's the only positive thing I can say about any school on that list.</p>
<p>I am not trying to be pessimistic. My daughter is in a much similar world, with slightly higher stats , and a more fluid EFC. We have the same @ contribution level possible in cash, and a willingness to take a few K out in loans per year. But similar enough for our purposes. Her match list is Furman, Centre , and Rhodes. Schools where her SAT is a full 100+ points higher than their 75th percentile. That's where we have determined by past recipient data she has to be to get $15k+ awards with any amount of certainty (while still admittedly a risk). I would have him add several schools at this level being very careful to note that these three schools are on our lists for a reason. In my opinion they are among the best merit aid values in America, especially among top fifty LAC's. I wish they were more scattered geographically. D really wanted Midwest or Northeast but we have found nothing similar in the merit match category. </p>
<p>Next he needs some safeties that aren't large state schools. Merit safeties. Google 1400+SAT+scholarship. You'll find a bunch of sites , some high school guidance lists showing schools that will grant award to kids at that level.
Another great merit idea is to go against type. Southern boy. Go to Bard (for example.). Check out Bard's scholarship for kids just like your's (if he can be top 10) that guarantees that they will reduce costs to that of state school tuition and fees, room and board. I really wish my daughter would consider Bard . But not as yet. Too foreign, she thinks.</p>
<p>Lastly a school that I think fits him very well that would be exciting to consider would be U of Miami where he would be competitive for 1/2 to 3/4 tuition. Not a shoo-in, but in the hunt. Takes a minimum of 1500 for full. Good luck and PM me for more.</p>
<p>for us the finaid org calculator was right on- however we have pretty straight forward 1040 forms nothing unusual</p>
<p>zagat if a students family is not able to contribute the full EFC I think the best bet would be merit aid- if possible
It also depends on how much they ARE able to contribute
If the cost of a public school is $15,000 The EFC is $15,000 but they are only able to contribute $7,000 that still isn't going to help a whole lot at the state school unless they live at home.
If your EFC is more than the cost of state school- you arent going to get need based aid from them- but it may be cheaper than a school which doesn't give merit aid.
I haven't seen many schools ( any) which allow you to reduce your EFC by merit based aid. However if you are paying full price at local school and you recieve an outside scholarship- that should be able to go to costs, after all they aren't giving you any aid anyway.
However if you are recieving both need and merit based aid, they may reduce your loans or even grants with your merit aid, not reduce the amount of your EFC.</p>
<p>Berry College? Ton of money (endowment about double that of Davidson - 13th largest among LACs), inexpensive tuition, large amounts of financial aid - both merit and needbased, and it should be a safety for him, I would think. Of course, if he likes his current safeties better, it probably doesn't matter.</p>
<p>I posted something similar to this last night but it is apropos here,too. There's one thing many here have a hard time understanding. The full-rides (and some full tuitions) people talk about at top fifty LAC's or top fifty uni's are so selective, they make HYPS look open admission. For example at Davidson 500 kids will apply for 8-10 full rides in the Belk program (there are other programs but this is the biggest for regular smart kids.). At Rhodes I believe the numbers are even worse for the Bellingrath . Several hundred for 3. </p>
<p>Those scholarships are there to steal HYPS kid's away, and there are not many of them to go around. Average SAT's in these programs, and Wake's and Furman's, and Vandy's are all higher than most top ten-twenty schools 75th percentile. No, I'm not exaggerating. PM me and I'll give you some numbers to chomp. (Here's one:Rhodes - Bellingrath, 1511 for the finalists)</p>
<p>Curmudgeon,</p>
<p>Interesting that for you Princeton had the best financial aid calculator. For me it was Williams then Princeton then Dartmouth. Regardless, those are all reach schools for most students.</p>
<p>For the OP, Curmudgeon's idea of Googling using the terms he outline works pretty well. Another source is the US News Online information. A lot of financial aid information is buried there. Further, many of the schools will provide more aid for students out of region. Being from South Carolina may be interesting to a school in Maine or Minnesota.</p>
<p>Good luck with your search.</p>
<p>Ours went Princeton Williams Finaid Dartmouth., if I remember right. A seven to ten thousand dollar swing.:eek: I did finaid to spit out an EFC of $17K one time and I printed it to see what I had entered. I keep it under my pillow. JK. Usually it's @$23k to $30k. Another hunt for some people is to find FAFSA only schools. For some families with low AGI's but high home equity and the like FAFSA is far more friendly. University of Miami is a FAFSA school.</p>
<p>Outstanding posts! Curmudgeon, you and I are on the same page. I liked both Furman and Rhodes. Centre sounds like it is similar. We will keep on looking. I hate to say it, but we may also have to just dig deeper into our pockets or take out bigger loans. Reminds me of when we bought our last new car years ago. I cursed and grumbled for days at the sticker prices until I simply got used to the fact that cars are expensive. So is college!</p>
<p>Eh - what's the money for anyway? Really, do you have a better use? Just think of the awful things you kids could be spending it on!</p>