<p>Now that son is nearing the half way point toward his undergraduate degree, I'm starting to think about graduate school, a topic that I know absolutely nothing about. Let's say for example he goes on to get an MA or a PhD at a public or private university. What's the typical cost? What's the financial aid situation? Are parents expected by the college to cough up for graduate school as well if they have the money? (When does it end?)</p>
<p>I believe that any grad school aid is done in the kids name. If he gets a fellowship or something like that, he could get a free ride. If he is going to law school, forgot about grants or fellowships, its loans till the cows come home.</p>
<p>Having done the professional school thing, I can answer with that (and some other knowledge). If your son is doing something like a master's, he might get some funding, especially if it's for the sciences. For humanities, you'll more likely have to pay. However, he'll be able to be a TA and receive a stipend for that. </p>
<p>As for the actual forms - well, each school has a different system. Some require your parent's info for any aid (even loans); some consider you to be independent; some made adjustments for every year that you haven't been claimed as a dependent. See UMich law - your parents income is considered for 100% when you are a dependent, 80% when you've been independent for a year, 60% for two years, etc. </p>
<p>Generally, yes, parents are often expected to cough up for graduate school. At least, they are by the schools. My dad was quite clear that I would get undergrad paid wherever I wanted to go, but nothing afterwards. I know this is probably the last thing you want to hear - but the best thing to do is let your son know NOW what you'll pay for. Speaking as someone near his age, I can say that the best thing to do is be able to know what you are in for. I know people who were quite upset to find out that their parents weren't paying for grad school (or not what they expected), and that revelation usually came after they had acceptances. Lots of bitter feelings. </p>
<p>(also - just my opinion - it's great to take a year off between undergrad and grad. You don't realize how stressed you are, and, after earning a real salary, you end up going to grad school because you want to, not because it's a way of delaying adulthood.)</p>
<p>If he is doing well in his major at Williams, where I seem to recall you've said he is, he should be able to get a fellowship virtually anywhere (GPA, GRE, and enthusiastic recs from well-known faculty members will do the trick). I have the impression from your posts that art history is his field, sorry if I am mistaken. In fields like that (English,history, poli sci...) graduate scohol do not seem to expect students to pay,a t least not the ones who are going for their PhD. Some programs only take as many tsudents as they can provide funding for and it is not at all need-based. So basically your son will have his tuition covered and possibly even get a stipend, and indeed might become one of those much maligned TA's at a top research unvieristy!</p>
<p>Momrath, Williams? Art History? What was the name of the well know AH proff there who died recently? I want to get his last book.</p>
<p>I agree with most of the prior posts. A my university, Research Assistanceships, Teaching Assistanceships, university sponsored fellowships, and most externally sponsored fellowships are awarded based on merit. The only financial aid which required the FAFSA are subsidized loans. In engineering typically 75% of US grad students receive gernerous finaid awards. Visa students, which make up about 35% of our graduate student body, often receive aid from their national government.</p>
<p>One thing to be wary of is the time factor. I received a National Health Service fellowship which was due to expire after 2 years, while I knew that my grad studies took 5 years. While it wasn't difficult to get a TA afterwards, nothing was guaranteed and I had to begin working for my "supper".</p>
<p>ariesathena, makes a good point about some people using grad school as a way to delay adulthood. In fact, I think that might actually be one of the reasons I want to get my PhD. But anyway, I just wanted to point out that once you start working fulltime, it's hard to get back into the "game," so to speak. I've heard this from several people. So just wanted to point that out as something to consider before taking a gap year.</p>
<p>Now to my understanding, unless you receive a scholarship/fellowship of some sort, most people pay for their master's education, but everybody getting a PhD is on a fellowship covering everything. Is that correct? (By the way, I am referring to the sciences like Microbiology.)</p>
<p>Thanks all for your replies.</p>
<p>My son hasn't a clue what he's going to do after graduation. He's far more focused on what he's going to do for Spring break. </p>
<p>It's ME that's concerned about the cost of graduate school. I.e., will I have to work until I'm 70? Projecting ahead (again this is just a parent's musing, may happen, may not) I see that he may either get an masters in Art Studio or Art History with the intention of museum work or teaching highschool. Or if he's truly inspired go for a PhD in Art History. Or study architecture. Or then again he may choose the artist in the garret route, Or become a snowboard bum. I'd like him to spend a few years in the real world before making any commitment, but I think that even entry level museum and teaching positions are better with a masters.</p>
<p>What I'm most interesting in knowing is where my money comes in. From what you've said, it appears that good students from good schools can rely on grants and fellowships to fund grad school. It also seems that parents are off the hook if there's a reasonable period of being self-supporting after undergrad. Do I have this right?</p>
<p>What does graduate school actually cost in tuition? Can anyone give me a ballpark, say for Michigan or Yale?</p>
<p>originaloog, the person you're thinking of was Kurt Varnedoe, Williams grad (plus Stanford), football star, who went on to be a top curator at the Museum of Modern Art. He's my son's hero. There was a wonderful reminiscence about him by Adam Gopnik in the May 10, 2004 New Yorker. I haven't been able to find it on-line.</p>
<p>I don't know about Michigan but Yale's tuition and stipend would come to nearly $50k.
I'd caution on relying for fellowship for a Master's degree. Some universities provide fellowships for that level, others do not. And if a student is in a M.A. program, i.e., has not yet taken the Generals, there may be restrictions on his/her eligibility for teaching. It is indeed wise to investigate available funding for M.A. studies. NYU has a great program in museum studies. You could begin by investigating its requirements and its funding options.</p>
<p>Momrath, yes it was Kirk Varnadoe. He was a champion of Chuck Close who had a one man exhibit at the Metropolitan last year. The book I mentioned was the publication accompaning the Matiesse-Picasso exhibit a few years back. And your right, he was a Williams grad but taught at P'ton.</p>
<p>It a shame that he did not live to see the opening of MOMA. Its my favorite art museum and I am anxious to see it the next time I am in the NYC area, though not so keen on the $20 admission.</p>
<p>momrath, I have a friend whose daughter is currently in the application process for the program at NYU's Institute of Fine Arts so I could attempt to get some information from them about the anticipated costs. I know that she's worked for a year and a half after finishing her undergrad, and I disagree with the previous poster about it being difficult to return to school after working for a period of time. Many graduate programs, if not most, certainly for business and law, expect that their applicants have 'real world' work experience prior to applying. This is becoming even more common with M.A. and PhD. programs as well. In this girl's case, she's looking at probably seven years to get through this program, with possibly an additional year for the curatorial studies certificate, and attain her PhD so working for a while first and earning some money is not a bad thing! :)</p>
<p>I think you're wise to be thinking of these things now, even if your son isn't. Being well-informed and prepared is always good. I know that my friend told me about an acquaintance of her daughter who was also interested in this program at NYU but discovered that she did not have the extensive foreign languages requirement that most of these Fine Arts grad programs insist on. I know the one at NYU requires knowledge of French and German at a minimum. So yes, it's always good to go in with as much information as possible.</p>
<p>There is one graduate program (Master's degree) that costs a lot but lasts for about a year and a half: journalism school. For example, Columbia's Masters in Journalism is 18 months and costs upwards of $50,000 a year. But graduating from Columbia's or Northwestern's J-school is good in terms of finding a job.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, I graduated from Williams (back in the dark ages), went to graduate school for 5 years, and ended up with more money in savings (from fellowships, etc.) than when I started. (But I didn't have a car.)</p>
<p>The first of the Williams art mafia - Lane Faison - is still alive and living in Williamstown, though he is well into his 90s.</p>
<p>Good advice above - languages are critical. One or even two of them are best before starting graduate school. I have seen studies that indicate that it is the single best predictor of graduate school success, more so than even GPA.</p>
<p>I'm in my 4th year of undergrad and will graduate when I am finished with my 5th year. I definitely want to go to law school and a family friend who is an attorney advised that I go right after undergrad instead of waiting a few years or so. My brother plans on working for a few years before getting his MBA but law school is different. The attorney told me it is best to go now while I am used to not having money rather than working a few years and having to give up a good engineering salary. I see his point because I don't really like school and I definitely don't like the idea of giving up money for three years to do so.</p>
<p>I was worried about the debt that I will incur since I will have over $30,000 in loan debt before even going to law school. My parents provide nothing in terms of help with tuition and books. They have enough trouble paying off their own bills and debt. Since I never wanted to work a full-time job during the semester (I've had summer internships) the only way to pay for school is loans. So my choice is school, loans, and a good job in the future or no loans, no school, and no good job. I just hope engineering and law degrees will result in a well-paying job that will allow me to pay off the loans without much trouble.</p>
<p>justin, my H took the same route as you're planning, first engineering, then law. He also went to law school right after he graduated from undergrad. And while I respect the advice you received from your friend who is an attorney (it seems to suit your particular situation), the reality is that today, most applicants have worked before applying to law school. Certainly the numbers and profiles vary from school to school, but for instance, at NYU, which is one of the nation's top law schools, 70% of applicants have pursued professional work prior to returning to law school. I can understand why you're hesitant, though, if you feel that it would be difficult for you to give up the salary once you got used to it. Good luck to you! :)</p>
<p>My best friend just graduated from law school and he had a ton of debt to pay off in loans. But he got a nice six figure salary directly out of law school and he consolidated all of his debt. He got such a low interest rate that he's just going to pay it off over 30 years because he has no reason to pay it off sooner. He'll earn more interest letting the money sit in a savings account than he's going to get charged by the debt consolidators. He still has enough money to buy a boat (well, 1/2 a boat that he's splitting with his parents) and a house on Lake Havasu that he's also splitting with his folks.</p>
<p>The moral of the story is that you can afford grad school, whether it's through loans, fellowships, or family contributions.</p>
<p>One of my fears is having something happen in the future that may not allow me to go to law school. I've been doing this engineering thing for 4 years now and it has lost the buzz that it once had. A year ago I was excited about engineering but now it doesn't look as appealing. I never wanted to be an "engineer" for a long period of time anyway. I always wanted to go into the business/law field. I worked with some guys during my internship who were engineers for more than 10 years before getting into management. I got bored with their job after one summer. </p>
<p>I am not 100% positive about where I want to go with a law degree (patent law is definitely a possibility) but what I do know is that a law degree is what I need in order to get where I want to end up.</p>
<p>Salary also plays in issue in my decision. I have no illusions that a law degree will make me rich but the career path has the potential to make me more money than a regular engineering job in the long run. The attorney friend of mine makes a good amount of money in his practice but it has taken him a number of years. No quick and easy money.</p>
<p>Momrath, there's a whale of a difference in financing of PhD's and most other graduate degrees. For PhD's if a student is really any good, and is attending a very good program, then she's highly likely to get full financial support, to include tuition, a monthly stipend, and, in most cases, health insurance. The financial support will generally come in the form of fellowships or assistantships (for research or teaching). In my university (my department) about 90% of the PhD students receive this kind of funding, either from the university or from external sources and funding agencies.</p>
<p>I should mention that the standard assumption for PhD students is that they are financially independent of their parents. So there's no expected family contribution or the like. If either of my kids were to go into a PhD program, they'd be on their own in this respect.</p>
<p>Momrath I think the last posting is most relevant to your question. Funding at the graduate school level is rarely need based, so parent's income plays little part in securing financing for graduate studies. Many graduate students receive tuition waivers and monthly stipends doing work as research and teaching assistants. A minority obtain fellowships which do not require work hours in return for the stipend. Professional training programs in law and medicine offer limited financial aid, so loans are the order of the day. I would be very clear with my child regarding what I would and would not be willing to spend in support of their graduate education as that will surely be a factor in their choice of a graduate program.</p>
<p>Yes, but there is a huge difference in funding for students in MA programs and in Ph.D. programs. Most MA programs I'm familiar with do not provide funding, though, as Mackinaw said, Ph.D. programs at the same schools provide merit-based funding (and do not admit students who do not qualify) and teaching or research opportunities (Princeton gives a 5 year full ride to admitted Ph.D. students).</p>
<p>two questions and assuming not burned out and $ not a big issue for getting into MEng.
1. Currently in a top 10 eng undergrad school. Should one continue in same school or go to another eng school?</p>
<ol>
<li>Current undergrad school has program to complete MEng for an extra two semesters vs doing a two year program and possibly getting a TA/RA position.</li>
</ol>
<p>Comments?
Moderator how about starting another cat other than Law & Medicine, but for other professional grad schools.</p>