This is sort of two questions combined into one post. I’m a junior at a large high school (2000 people, 100+ audition for musicals) that favorites seniors. Over the last year or so I’ve had a few feature roles and a supporting one this fall at a theatre outside of school (before that I was strictly in ensemble since getting to high school). I’m one of a few students in my grade to have been in an honors choir since sophomore year, and people tell me I am good, but I know I am not professional yet. I know many kids have been leads in the majority of their school shows and some have even won awards or done professional theatre, but I always sort of figured (not to discredit anyone who does go to a small school), that I would get leads/more roles if I went to a smaller school. I’ve been watching senior showcases however, and the people in them are SO talented. Based off of people’s experience, do students get to college already pretty amazing and just improve while there, or do they completely transform as performers? I know there are a few superstars who are at a professional level, but I am talking about the majority of students auditioning. Did they all get to college practically professional, or were they simply talented high schoolers who wanted to pursue theatre as a career?
My second question is: Are there any schools out there for kids who aren't at a professional level (if the majority of students walk into college already amazing/nearly professional). Schools that offer a good musical theatre education whose alumni have success working in the field but that have a smaller audition pool, or perhaps they accept a larger number of students? Thank you so much, and best wishes for everyone waiting to hear audition results!
@MThopeful99 - be sure to read the threads that are pinned to the top of the Musical Theater Major forum. You’ll find lots of information for all kinds of schools that offer great educations. Read Mary Anna Dennard’s book “I Got In”. If you are in the financial position to do so, you might consider getting a national-level coach (read threads on MT coaching) to find out how you “stack up” or what you need to work on. Having a national level coach is not a prerequisite - or guarantee - for getting accepted, but having an adult who is knowledgeable about TODAY’s MT college application process definitely is (my S - a current MT BFA junior - did not have a “national” coach, but did have several local coaches to help him hone his audition materials). There are students who do it on their own (you’ll find their amazing stories on this forum). As a HS junior, you are in a good position to have some “control” - if such a thing exists in this crazy process - over what you do between now and when you start applying in August/September. Be aware that your college application process and timeline will look nothing like your non-MT/Acting friends. Your classmates, family, school counselor may think your nuts to start the process now.
The “success” - or comparative “lack of success” - a student has in HS shows is almost irrelevant to what happens in the MT college application/acceptance process. The skills you have and what you show in your auditions is paramount. Kids are “successful” or “unsuccessful” in their HS theater domains for all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with how talented or skilled they are. Don’t use that as your measuring stick.
Here are some “background” threads from the last few classes. Read them. You will notice that the “winners” and “different-kinds-of-winners” came from all kinds of backgrounds and found “success” through many different paths.
During this process, I have come to believe that different schools are truly looking for different qualities in their students. I feel that the best programs are the ones that know their strengths and pick the students that will excel in that environment. It does seem that a lot of schools may be looking for the god-given talent that can’t be learned, and the students who do seem to be already on par with the professional world. But there are other schools that are looking more towards development of the artists. I think that in those cases the interview and the ability to be open to direction become a critical part of the final decisions. Obviously, there is a base level of talent that is required, but I do believe it is possible to get into a good BFA program without the polish that others may have had due to their opportunities, or the length of time they have been studying. I think it all about finding a program that will meet you where you are in your own journey and help to guide you from there.
We are in the midst of this process, and I think that your questions, @MThopeful99, are really interesting, and ones I’ve been wondering about throughout. I think that the decision threads that @mom4bwayboy posted are very informative. We’re doing this without a coach, and my kid is at a large public non-performing arts high school, and I have learned lots by reading about the different paths everyone has taken. Good luck!
Having just completed the audition circuit with my daughter I will tell you that the talent pool that the schools have to choose from is jaw dropping. My daughter is talented but not nearly as professional or polished as some of the others auditioning. I think that many have pointed out that “fit” seems to be crucial. I agree with the statement but would add that in many many cases the school will not get to know the student auditioning- the audition can be a painfully brief amount of time. I think there are a whole lot of students that would ultimately do well at a given school and who are a good fit who will not get the chance.
@MTMHopeful I agree with you completely but isn’t that also the nature of the business. If a performer is driven enough and lucky enough and has a bit of talent it probably doesn’t matter where they attend.
I agree @MTMHopeful . I guess they can’t spend more time with the students because there are too many auditioning but I think that’s unfortunate. Perhaps more schools should prescreen (thereby bringing the sheer number of auditioning to a more manageable number and eliminating visits and unecessary expenses) & bring to audition those students they are most interested in in terms of talent, looks & voice type etc . Then maybe they could spend a few more minutes with the student? I mean my D got rejected from schools that we know would be a good fit for her as we did our due diligence & researched them , visited etc. I know that’s not always the case but in our it is. Right now , however, not one of those schools spent one minute (and lets think about how long a minute is) TALKING to her. They don’t know about her personality, how she has a work ethic that would rival many of her peers, how she actually has other interests too that make her a well rounded person and a better actor. They just heard her sing 32 bars , do sometimes only 1 monologue & dance. I mean I totally get they are in a bind w/ the process & truly maybe all that matters is those 3 minutes of performing but I feel there is a whole lot more to her that makes her a good candidate & a great addition to a freshman class then JUST those things. She’s more then that. MT is more than that. Just my humble op
I hear you @theaterwork. As the mother of a sweet & hardworking girl it can be a little sad. At one of my Ds auditions they eliminated the monologues completely because of time constraints. It can be a little frustrating (annoying) after time, fees & travel.
Yes @artskids I have read those posts from both. Very informative and always helpful.
I’m just saying in most instances they are basing the decision on strictly those performance based minutes which I totally know is crucial but maybe an extra minute or two for a little chat. Just something…I don’t even know how much they take into consideration a resume etc. maybe a little who knows , but that is the only other piece of info they have to go by. I know one school did interact for a short time with my D which she was happy with because at least she felt like she was more then just the next kid walking into the room. And I know some schools do a brief interview but they are the minority. I know there are more kids then slots and I don’t see that changing really but it seems like a little tweaking is in order. Even just a small amount. But I know then they think the kids will read too much into the audition if they did that so they would have to do it with every student not just some.
I don’t know I’m just rambling lol… I just heard a lot of stuff at parent Q&A sessions on this audition circuit & the thing I heard over and over was “we just want this to be a good fit for your child”
Not sure how they determine that from the time allotted.
In the real world, casting is done the same way. Sometimes you get to sing as little as eight bars. Sometimes you’re typed out and don’t get to sing at all. Yet casting directors and producers manage to find who they feel are the “right fit” for roles. It’s a harsh reality of this business that only starts with the college audition process.
I agree @theaterwork. We want them to get to know our kids! They do read the essays, etc. so maybe get some additional insight. It is hard to think part of our kids’ futures are being decided in less than 3 minutes yet, as @CTDramaMom says, it is the harsh reality of this profession our children have chosen!
@CTDramaMom yes I think it’s a great initiation into the realities of what you’ll encounter after graduation. But I don’t think it’s exactly the same. Because you’re paying for college… You’re paying for training and education and mentoring. In a casting call for an acting job you are a) an adult for the most part trying to get a paying job. Its a job interview per se. Every person graduating from college knows they’re at the mercy of the person doing the interview. Of course they usually can only hire one person so rejection is usually a high probability.
Choosing an MT college and them choosing you should involve more. You are paying them. It’s not a job . It’s a four year commitment of education.
I remember watching my daughter go into her auditions all bright eyed and excited and come out 3 minutes later wondering what could they possibly have learned about her in such a short time. Looking back now, they knew she was not right for their programs. We were woefully unprepared for this process (no coach, no help, tippy top programs only). She did not belong there but at the time we were crushed. All those rejections have lead her to the amazing training she is currently getting. I see her now as an actor compared to back then and realized that she would have flourished no matter where she went but ended up where she needed to be. Does that make sense?
@theatrework - as my d went through this process, I pondered the same issues of the selection process for BFA MT programs vs. the alleged purpose of institutions of higher learning. When I asked some faculty members about this, they pointed out that (a) most BFA (and most BM) programs are clearly designed and marketed as “professional training programs” and (b) the fundamental metrics by which they are judged is how many graduates they place in professional theatre and the quality of shows that they produce on campus (note that this is just as much as personal success criteria for faculty as it is an institutional sucess metric). If you doubt this - look how many of the top programs tout the success of “alumni” who only attended for one or two years and then dropped out but went on to signficant professional achievements.
Hence, the admissions process is run on basically the same system as that used for professional auditions, because they are trying to recruit a class with the best potential for rapid professional success (not necessarily after graduating). They admitted that they do pass over some really talented and capable students who are not as impressive in a short audition, but that will still likely happen no matter what process is used unless the metrics used for judging program (and personal) success are changed. Their recommendation was that if you want a more “typical” college academic situation and application process, then you should pursue a BA program in theatre (one that is not being run as “pseudo-BFA”), which is not being judged on the same basis as conservatory or conservatory-style programs focused on rapid professional success.
Of course, not every BFA MT program is necessarily run on this basis, however, given that the vast majority do relatively short auditions and limited (or no) interviews, can there be much doubt that most are?
@bisouu I totally understand what you’re saying. I don’t want people to think I think my kid is the bomb and needs to get into every program lol . We fully knew what we were signing up for and we harbor no ill will toward any school we went to. Rejection or not. We were treated respectfully at every school . We are thankful that my daughter does have some choices.
I’m just wishing the kids could get a hair more evaluation in the audition. Just a little itty bitty hair more. But as @EmsDad has stated which Lord knows where we’d all be without him the schools are in the business of alumni success. It really comes down to that at the end of the day I guess.
Choosing people through audition is not a perfect process by any means. But none of college admissions is. We know people who didn’t get in to a school (non-performance/audition based) because of a standardized test score even though they have great grades, work ethic etc… where the same school took somebody else with a higher test score but lower grades and poor work ethic.I think if they knew each applicant better they would have taken the student with the lower test score and higher grades. But that’s not what happened. Each school chooses its criteria by which they choose students and unfortunately they don’t always consider the whole student. In an effort to compare apples to apples, they focus only on whatever they deem is their most important criteria. Of course, the audition part is very subjective. Two auditors can see the same audition and one can love it and one can say they’re not right for their program. Likewise, If you submit essays to a college, you are subject to the opinion of the person who reads that essay. I do wish there was a way for colleges to get to know all of their applicants better, no matter their major. But it seems as if there is not time nor staff at most schools to get to know them. I don’t know what the answer is. We have to remember for MT purposes, they can only take so many days out of the year to audition and consider applicants. After all, their main job is to teach the students already there. So the more time they take away from school to audition, the less time they are spending teaching. I wish I had a recommendation for how to improve the process. I don’t. But I do commiserate with everyone going through the process. The college admissions game is tough no matter how you slice it.
@theaterwork I hope you didn’t think I was being critical. I was completely frustrated when my daughter was going through this. I was in fact internally angry that they weren’t spending more time with her. I wanted them to speak with her and really get to know who she is as a person as well as a performer because I was certain she would have gotten in everywhere on her sheer ability to talk her way into anything. Hindsight really is a blessing unfortunately it comes after all the heartache.
