<p>I thought your advice was right on target, robotbidmom.</p>
<p>Rob,</p>
<p>You may not realize this, but MANY of these kids who are NOT NMF, UFE, or CBH were highly recruited by top tier schools. The PSAT is just ONE indicator. Whether a student was NMF or not really says nothing about the student’s academic ability, discipline, or study habits. They certainly are not all “like minded” or the only high stats kids on campus recruited highly by the UA as well as other top schools…I know…my child happens to be one those high stat, high achieving, extremely dedicated, studious students from OOS. She has been very happy at the UA. My other two will likely be NMF judging from their scores, but smarter…well, not really. And again, many of her friends who are not in Honors have equal dedication to their studies.</p>
<p>I’m not aware of the other thread, but I will look for it and read it. There are harsh realities with regards to sorority recruitment with which I may not agree as well, but I try not to make assumptions.</p>
<p>RobD, whether it’s right or wrong the simple truth is that looks do play a part in getting bids to some greek organizations. The girl voiced her concerns and asked for thoughts. The poster that responded was just being honest and offered some advice on how she could improve her chances if joining a sorority was important to her.</p>
<p>I just read the thread. The poster asked and it appears the response was honest advice rather than trying to be exclusionary. From what I understand, looks do play a part in recruitment, but that isn’t really the same thing as above.</p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more and don’t see anything politically incorrect about this statement.</p>
<p>That said, I must say that I wasn’t offended by what TXArchitect was trying to convey. And I was one of the posters who disagreed with her strongly on the stuckintx matter, both publicly and in private communication.</p>
<p>Look at the sequence of back and forth carefully. She begins by saying:
</p>
<p>My take-away from this is that right up front she says that she and and her DD are looking at MANY methods to identify potential roommates. Many, but not all, of her DD’s comfortable friends are NMC+ and those are not necessarily her best friends.</p>
<p>m2ck then points out:
</p>
<p>TXArchitect agrees with m2ck and tells us she was just spit balling with her NMF idea:
</p>
<p>tommykirkpatrick (btw, I love your posts, tommy), then weighs in with a sensible plan from a student’s perspective:
</p>
<p>TXArchitect agrees with tommy and jumps right on board:
</p>
<p>m2ck then cautions:
</p>
<p>Again, TXArchitect completely agrees and lets us know again that she’s just trying to find a methodology and acknowledges that there are “hundreds” of potentially compatible roommates out there:
</p>
<p>I frequently rush through long threads and sometimes I walk away with the wrong impression. When I read this thread carefully I don’t get the impression that TXArchitect was conveying snobbery or trying to be “exclusionary” or dismissive of others. Was she clumsy? I don’t know, but if so, she’s apologized and even said:
<p>Correct. I agreed above that she may not have meant to be offensive, but several of us did find it to have an exclusionary tone. I can accept that she has apologized, but I don’t think anyone was out of line in their responses and my post was more in response to Rob’s post. We are all entitled to our opinions and we all misspeak from time to time, but being NMF, UFE, or CBH does not mean others are not equally high stat, high achieving, dedicated, studious students who were highly sought after, had many choices of top schools, or are less of an asset or make disruptive roommates. The biggest thing that bugged me about move-in was hearing my D’s roommates parents tell my D what their rules were…I mean seriously, she has two parents already, and BTW…she has managed to maintain a perfect GPA. I’m not angry with anyone, I just felt the need to speak up. Roll Tide!</p>
<p>Please tell me that you’re not saying that the roommates’ parents were setting rules for the suite, for their adult college daughters and, even worse, an unrelated stranger. Please. I can pilot the helicopter with the best of them, but even I wouldn’t dream of doing that.</p>
<p>Casino: I get it. I’m not naive. I know that weight & appearance have a bearing on perceptions, no matter what a person says. The point I was trying to make is that a forum that jumps on someone because of judging based on an academic marker probably should examine why it’s not an issue to judge because of a physical marker. </p>
<p>Bamagirls: Our HS has kids going to Harvard, Princeton, & University of Chicago this year; none of them are NMF so I completely understand that non-NMF’s get recruited too. The PSAT is just one indicator on one given day. Some super smart kids don’t test well. Some may have been ill the day of that important test. Some may go to a school that doesn’t even provide access to the test or help them understand what scoring well could mean. NMF is more than the PSAT score though; it’s also about a complete HS transcript, recommendations from the school & an essay. There’s 15,000 NMF’s each year, so it’s not “uber” special, but UA has decided that it’s making an effort to recruit those students. Oklahoma does as well (and slightly more successfully) but they have a dedicated office to NMF’s and dorms specific to those students. I don’t think there was anything in my comments looking down at non-NMF, CHBP, UF etc. kids. That was not my intent. </p>
<p>The fact that there is a housing scholarship attached to NMF does mean that there could be a benefit to having them all find each other if only for ease of finding roommates as they continue at UA.</p>
<p>Having a student who did much better on PLAN/ACT tests than on PSAT/SAT, I very much agree. But we always knew the value of being NMF and invested a fair amount of money in SAT prep, hoping it would yield the desired result. It did not. D’s percentile on the PLAN and ACTs fell into the desired percentile for the PSAT, but obviously that doesn’t matter to the NMSC. D’s GPA and AP/SAT II scores are actually higher than some NMFs at her school, but she obviously doesn’t have the same recognition. She is an example of what others have said, turning down Top 20 admission offers to come to UA. </p>
<p>Do I think it is a fair search criteria? No, but I can understand the OP wanting to use it. It is a quick way to narrow the field. But by doing so you will exclude too many and will allow some who you would probably want to exclude. For example, my nephew is an amazing test taker. High PSAT but didn’t have the GPA to match so did not get full recognition. He can score 800 on multiple sections of the SAT but doesn’t get his homework done and would rather game than study. Scary smart but not disciplined at this point in his life. </p>
<p>Anyway, the thing that speaks to me the most from this thread is that I have probably offended others in my questions and responses as well. When I post about how to maximize the 45 credit AP limit, I probably am getting eye-rolls from people whose student doesn’t have any AP credits coming in, or only have very few. We can tend to be narrowly focused in our world and forget how it comes across to the masses. I was reminded of that recently when I started a thread and it had over 300 views before it got a response. A lot more people are on this board than we (or I) may realize, and they aren’t all NMF or even ‘top’ students. But they are worthy and no doubt an integral part of the UA community (or soon to be!).</p>
<p>DS “went random” for freshman year at Riverside East and did fine. He’s “going random” for sophomore year at Ridgecrest West. Should be interesting, lol. He has a network of friends outside his dorm, and he does a lot of his studying at Gorgas and in the study rooms, so he’s not around his roommates that much anyway. He’s very gregarious and kind of needs social stimulation when he studies, if that makes any sense – he at least needs to be near other people, as at Gorgas. He would go crazy in a too-quiet environment. Yet he has a 3.89 GPA, so he’s doing OK so far. Every kid is different!</p>
<p>He was the only NMF in his suite this past year, but his roomies were all Honors College students, and they were certainly intellectually stimulating. ;)</p>
<p>Oh yes, that is what I’m saying, Beth’s mom. They were attempting to lay down the proverbial law to our D, not theirs. That’s what I mean when I say “mean girls.” I’m not talking about cleaning habits. I thought I was going to lose my tongue from the bite marks, lol. You’ll find there are all kinds out there. The good thing is the UA is a big school, you won’t likely spend much time together, it is only a year, and Housing will help if problems are serious or cannot be resolved. I don’t think ours was the norm in any sense of the word.</p>
<p>Our D is a great kid who has never given us a bit of trouble, took rigorous AP, Honors, and Gifted classes with a perfect GPA, scored extremely well on her SAT (highest score), PSAT, and ACT to earn quite a bit of money above the Presidential, was recruited by many top schools, and was the top student in her class. LOL, she is living off campus and already has a roommate, so she is unavailable. She’s made friends of all different abilities and interests and has received numerous awards, more scholarships, and wonderful opportunities since moving to the UA. I couldn’t ask for more. I’m suggesting that parents keep an open mind and not limit their child or make any assumptions about others when making roommate decisions, etc, or they may simply be disappointed. Again, I’m not harboring hard feelings toward anyone. Roll Tide!</p>
<p>RobD, I didn’t see anyone “jump” on the original poster. What I saw were people letting her know that there are many other students on campus who can provide intellectually stimulating conversation and who are academically dedicated. </p>
<p>I can understand the desire to find a fellow NMF’er to room with since it’s likely they’ll live in a dorm all 4 years. And I can even understand the desire to room with someone with similar credentials and achievements. But one should also understand that when you’re posting on a board full of parents (excluding me) who’s kids are all academically elite you can rub some feathers the wrong way by insinuating that NMF’ers are of a higher standard.</p>
<p>No one is upset or mad at TxArchitect to my knowledge.</p>
<p>Since I have not seen the Original Poster pop back into this thread, I can only assume that our back and forth conversations have offended her. I for one offer sincere apologies and offer a Roll Tide for all our wonderfully talented and smart and articulate and terrific current and future UA students.</p>
<p>I just want to be clear and state that our advice (my advice) may be taken if wanted or discarded as necessary.</p>
<p>casino: malanai was, as always, eloquent in articulating what I saw in the thread. There were a few knee jerk reactions that sounded to my ear like “hey, NMF’s aren’t the only smart kids on campus!” which my goodness, of course they’re not! One of the most successful & intelligent business people I know couldn’t break 1000 on the SAT’s. Anyone who thinks that a test score or a GPA is the measure of a person is incorrect. And I hope that no one thinks that is my mindset. </p>
<p>D1 hasn’t to my knowledge roomed with another NMF. It just hasn’t come up. After 2 years in dorms, apartments are the way to go for most UA undergrads. It would be nice to have a mechanism in place for the kids with housing scholarships to find one another because a senior living with 3 freshman isn’t ideal. For us, it’s not about elitism, it’s about logistics, KWIM? I mean, all the football players live in the same dorm, right? (and I’m asking…I don’t know the answer…I thought they all lived in Bryant.)</p>
<p>Freshman football players are required to live in Bryant. After that they are free to live anywhere they like. Maybe the answer is for The University to assign a floor in one of the honors dorms to NMF’ers.</p>
<p>^^^You know when you when you write out NMF’ers like that it looks a little obscene. Are you trash talking? </p>
<p>I’m kidding, I’m kidding ;)</p>
<p>ETA: I don’t think that’s necessarily the answer either. Some NMF’s do choose to move off campus as upperclassmen, some like one dorm over another for the same reasons other students do. M2CK will know the #'s better than I do, but there’s over 500 NMFs on campus now, that would be more than one floor and certainly for the many reasons articulated in the thread, they don’t all necessarily WANT to live together.</p>