Finding an intellectual college for a clueless 17-year-old

Student Lounge International Students
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I would start calling and emailing these colleges asap to make these visits as productive as possible. Some of these schools like Barnard and Haverford strongly encourage on-campus interviews. I would schedule those interviews.

I would schedule tours and info sessions asap. Some fill up fast. especially on Saturdays.

I would also reach out to the Philosophy Department heads (or other depts you’re interested in) and try to schedule meetings You’ll learn a lot about the department, and it will better inform your applications. My D had one dept head from a selective college contact admissions on her behalf just based on a meeting.

I would also try to schedule sit-ins on classes which interest you. Also, I would research what student activities are going on and attend - sports, improv., theater etc…You can learn lot meeting and observing current students.

With my own kids, we did a lot of groundwork prior to all visits, which I think really informed their decisions and applications One of my kids is at Haverford and one is at Brown, and they visited several of the other schools on your list. We actually passed on visiting some schools that were not accommodating

Keep a journal during your visits - It will greatly inform your applications.

You could cluster visits as follows:

Wellesly and Brown
Yale and Weslyan
Williams is stunning, but way out of the way. We combined it with Amherst and Smith.
Columbia/Barnard
Princeton
Swathmore/Haverford/Bryn Mawr

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Take a picture of the tour guides (with their permission, of course). It helps to keep the tours straight.

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If you can swing adding in Smith and Mt Holyoke I think it would be worth it. A lot to offer with the 5 college consortium. You can see Amherst in the same loop as well (it is also in the consortium). Mt Holyoke would be a safety but my high stats D got a full tuition ride there this year (we are also full pay) and almost 30% of student body is international. Smith is fantastic too and would likely had been a huge contender had she not gotten the full ride. I was very impressed by both schools.

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I hate to put more into an already jam-packed schedules, but might you want to consider Vassar?

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My suggestion would be to delay Yale Princeton Brown and Columbia to a later trip(preferably after you’re admitted). You will like them for sure so it’s better to focus on schools that you don’t have a clear picture of. I know it’s tempting to visit high profile schools first, but it’s better strategy to see as many less selectives as you can.

I would definitely keep both Wellesley and Wesleyan on the list and add back Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Smith, Holyoke, maybe Dickinson. The chance of getting admitted as an international is higher at these than at some of the others on your list and showing up will give you a boost.

I think you should continue to research midsized privates that are not insanely selective. Schools like Rice, Northwestern, JHU, Duke have great sciences AND great social sciences and humanities plus serious engaged students and faculty. Right now your mid-sized choices are all highly selective (remember international admit rates are considerably lower than US rates) so you might want to expand the category.

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You don’t consider JHU and Duke “insanely selective”? Duke had an 8.3 acceptance rate (lower then Penn 8.4) and a 6.3% RD RATE.

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Thanks for the update on Duke’s acceptance rate.

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Agree that your list is heavy on the “insanely selective.” When planning visits, consider whether your goal is to go to school in the U.S. no matter what … or to go to school in the U.S. only if you get into a certain range of schools. If it’s the former, show some love to more matches.

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I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned demonstrated interest yet. It’s worthwhile to check the common data set for each school. Some give weight to demonstrated interest and some don’t care at all. When working on your list perhaps give priority to visiting a school that wants to see interest (and interview if you can). Save schools that don’t factor that in for another trip or at least do a mix of the two or just be aware of the concept. I know for our D we prioritized initial visits to schools that cared about interest and she interviewed at all of them. We live on the West Coast so lots of planning was involved with East Coast visits etc.

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Given the OP’s credentials, length of travel and her interest in a generally under-subscribed major, I think I would would visit now. Particularly Brown and Columbia (and Barnard) because of their ED options. I would take a deep dive in to these schools and give some serious consideration to applying ED.

Brown seats about 40% of it’s freshmen class in the ED round from a mere 10% of the total applicant pool; Whereas, in the RD round 90% of the applicant pool is competing for the remaining seats. Columbia’s stats are likely similar, but I haven’t checked.

Yale and Princeton and other SCEA schools are bigger gambles IMO. Not sure I would burn an early ticket on any of them .

In addition to making local contacts prior to your visits (as I suggested in my early post) I would, if possible, also make contact with the London/Western Europe -based admission reps for these schools and ask direct questions about the evaluation criteria and acceptance rates of international applicants from the region.

Best of luck

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When calculating ED odds, though, be aware that a lot of those are athletic recruits, which is a whole other ball game, no pun intended. Doesn’t mean your odds aren’t better with ED, but not as MUCH better as raw numbers might suggest.

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I know you haven’t left yet but the trip is close. I would not spend a lot of time seeing the Ivies or any school that is basically a lottery ticket to get into. Those schools don’t care about interest and you can see them if accepted. Our motto here is love your safety. We only toured one Ivy with limited travel time. My D had very similar stats to you did not get into the Ivies she applied to but there were 13 other schools she did get into. See the schools you have a solid chance of getting into!

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I’m a high school junior (international too!) so I thought I might add my two cents here. For context, I go to a well-known British (sort of?) international school in Asia that does GCSEs and the IB (instead of A-levels). About 45% of our graduates end up in the US, 40% in the UK and the others scattered around the world. I’m interested in studying maths (or should I say math? this is a forum for American colleges, after all) and hopefully taking classes in visual art, philosophy, photography, and theoretical computer science.

A lot of the criteria you’ve mentioned you like in a school applies to me as well: urban, intellectual as opposed to grade-grubbing vibe, small to mid-sized population. I’m also considering Brown, Swarthmore, Haverford, and Wesleyan, like you.

It would be more of a gamble to do SCEA as opposed to ED, but you should obviously not ED to a school unless you’d rather go there compared to your other schools. A lot of the more selective schools you mention do have significant advantages for ED, although this is ‘tainted’ by athletes, hooked applicants, etc (as mentioned by @porcupine98). If you can visit and pick out one school that you definitely like better than the rest, this would probably be a good option :slight_smile:

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After some great advice from @Westchestermom I’ve got my schedule all sorted out:
28th - Visiting and interviewing at Mount Holyoke
29th - Informally visiting Smith, Amherst, and Wesleyan
30th - Visiting Yale
1st - Visiting Brown
2nd - Visiting Columbia (just the info session unfortunately) & Barnard
3rd - Visiting Princeton
4th - Visiting Swarthmore
5th - Visiting UChicago

@momrath I am looking at other research unis. I really like William & Mary (will definitely be visiting and there’s a good chance I’ll be applying) and I’m also considering Tufts, Brandeis, and the University of Rochester.

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I’m sure you’ll have a wonderful trip. My small suggestions would be to try to fit Smith into your Mt. Holyoke day or Wesleyan into your Yale day as three in one day is a squeeze. I would also try to spend an hour at Bryn Mawr as I believe that could be another good safety for you, especially if you prefer the urban/suburban environment afterall.

My son interviewed at Yale, Swarthmore and Wesleyan and had positive (and enlightening) experiences at all.

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I got back from my trip Sunday night and now that I am recovered from jetlag I thought I would update you all on how it went.

As of now, I’m definitely applying to:
Princeton - As of right now this is definitely my top choice, unfortunately.
Brown
Yale
Columbia
UChicago
Wesleyan - I was only there for around 3 hours but just completely fell in love with the place.
Mount Holyoke

Most likely applying to:
Swarthmore - I liked it just as much as the others above, and is one of the best fits on paper, I just didn’t get connection. But, hey, I was only there a day.

Maybe applying to:
Smith - I was only there about 3 hours but it seemed great. Certainly going back for an official visit.

Barnard - Students seemed friendly, smart, and genuinely interesting. Being in Manhattan is great, and having the best of both worlds with both an LAC and access to Columbia is amazing. I just have two worried: 1. Because of the affiliation with Columbia, I’m not sure if I’ll get that proper LAC experience with the tight-knit community and, obviously, as a Barnard student, I won’t get the full uni experience. 2. At the moment, I think I would definitely choose Columbia over Barnard if I’m lucky enough to have the chance. So I’m worried that if I go to Barnard I won’t throw myself into the ‘Barnard experience’ and will instead spent all my time on the Columbia campus wishing I went there instead. I’m not sure whether that second worry is stupid or not.

Will not be applying to:
Amherst - Just not my cup of tea. I talked to the students, ate in the dining hall, and checked out billboards just like I did at Wesleyan and Smith but didn’t get that sense of ‘this is somewhere I can see myself’ like I did at those two. I felt like I was intruding in on someone else’s college experience instead of looking at my own potential one. Students also seemed more sports/outdoorsy/active then I would like. I’m worried that I won’t like Williams, Bowdoin, and Middlebury for the same reason.

I’d probably list my reaches in this order:
Princeton
Brown/Yale
UChicago/Columbia
Swarthmore

One thing I wanted to ask you all is how many reaches you recommend I apply to. I still have Pomona, Tufts, Williams, Middlebury, Bowdoin, and, as of recently, Johns Hopkins on my potential reach choices list. But I can’t see any way I would apply to any of them over the six I already have. Am I wasting my time still considering them - is six plenty? Or is it worth adding one more?

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Thanks for reporting back.

I am utterly baffled by this statement:

What do you think is a “full uni” experience that Barnard students would miss? Co-ed dorms?

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Like any SCEA school, princeton is a tough first choice because you’re forgoing the ED admissions advantage at most of the other schools on your list.

I would do a deep soul-searching dive on “why Princeton?”. Did you meet with some Philosophy students and professors there? What sets their department apart from the other schools? What do you like about the culture and social aspects Princeton? Did you visit some eating clubs?

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It really comes down to how many essays you want to write and how much you are willing to pay to apply. Mine applied to 16 or 17 schools. Some don’t have any additional essays (I think Middlebury is one of them). She visited about 3/4 of the schools on list with the intention of visiting a few more if accepted. She started working on the essays as soon as they were available so it wasn’t a complete mad rush to the finish line (although it was a bit of a rush). I also might add an additional safety to the list.

320

@OutOfKantrol,
I’m glad you liked Wesleyan and Smith as I think these are likely admits for you.

If Princeton remains your first choice, I’d suggest you go for SCEA, even though this, unfortunately, will eliminate an ED advantage at another school.

If you intend to visit Smith or other schools in the area, then I would suggest you visit Williams. Aside from location and size, culturally it has a lot of overlap with Princeton. In my opinion Williams has a greater emphasis on the arts – music, drama, art studio, art history – than Amherst, Middlebury or Bowdoin, though many Williams students are involved in both the arts and in sporty/outdoorsy activities.

Barnard has been a popular choice at my son’s high school and the enthusiasm of alumna is overwhelmingly positive. I’d leave it on the list.

How did you like Mt. Holyoke?