Finding an intellectual college for a clueless 17-year-old

Student Lounge International Students
21

As an international applicant, you will be competing with other internationals for limited admissions spots. Not asking for financial aid is a huge plus, and applying under an early decision program would give you a further boost.

The downside for you is that colleges use international admissions to encourage diversity (though only Americans are counted in the official diversity statistics). Coming from an English speaking, economically developed country and an affluent economic strata won’t exactly be a negative, but it’s not a positive either, moreso if you are White with Judeo-Christian heritage. There’s a lot of competition in this demographic, so you have to think about how to differentiate yourself in your application.

Your excellent grades and scores will get you into the competitive pool, but in order to stand out among other high achieving internationals you’ll need to present a compelling non-academic narrative as well. Selective colleges in the US put a lot of emphasis on life stories, extracurriculars, activities, talents. So think about what you can contribute to the campus community and then figure out how to communicate that in your application.

Any one of dozens of medium sized private universities and small liberal arts colleges would fulfill your wish list. Though colleges differ in environment and culture, you will find serious, thoughtful, intellectually curious students at all academically rigorous selective schools.

The best way to understand the individual personalities is to visit. If that isn’t possible, then it’s more of a hit and miss investigative process conducted on-line. Look carefully at the statistics for international admissions and think about what could make them choose you out of the crowd. You may have to cast a wide net and apply to 10 to 15 schools.

The system of identifying reach/match/safety is more of an art than a science, especially for internationals. You many prefer to concentrate on reaches and matches and use UK universities as your safeties. It’s hard to get solid figures on acceptance rates for internationals. As a general statement the acceptance rate for internationals is considerably lower than the acceptance rate for US citizens. So when you make your list choose super reaches (e.g., HYPSM) sparingly and load up on the next tier of reach to high match.

My (very subjective) list for you would include Macalester, Carleton, Grinnell, Smith, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Haverford, Reed.

22

Based on your interests, you might especially appreciate the flexible curricula of Amherst, Hamilton, Smith, Grinnell and Brown. Brown would be the only urban choice from this group, however. Williams similarly matches your criteria excepting for its location. Vassar and Reed might be two very good options.

23

Swarthmore sounds perfect for you! You might also consider Haverford and Vassar. All three sound like your type of place.

Brandeis is another, slightly easier-to-get-into choice, but with a very intellectual atmosphere, that you might like. And it has two other aspects that match you:

  1. As a school that was founded in 1948 by Jewish philanthropists to welcome students of ALL backgrounds at a time when Ivies had a quota for how many Jews they would admit, Brandeis remains the only fully secular, non-religiously-affiliated university in the United States without a Christian majority. They have a plurality but still under 50% of people with Jewish backgrounds, but many of these (though certainly not all) are Jews only by culture who are atheists by religion. And there are many students of a variety of other backgrounds and religions, including a good representation of Asians. There are plenty of atheists there! (Also some religious Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.)
  2. Also, Brandeis is known to be a college with less of a “party” atmosphere than most other universities... there is still lots of fun to be had, but lots of people having fun without alcohol! (But boozy parties are still available for those who want them.)
24

My 2 cents:

  1. Swarthmore fits your criteria. It's suburban, but very close to Philadelphia, with the train station at the edge of campus. The town of Swarthmore itself is charming.
  2. Harvard. You should apply. Obviously, in Cambridge, just outside Boston.
  3. Yale. In New Haven. It's a nice campus in the middle of an urban environment. Not nice urban, though.
  4. Brown. In Providence, a city. An hour south of Boston.
  5. Carleton College -- in Minnesota, abut 45 minutes from Minneapolis.
  6. University of Chicago
  7. Columbia University. On the upper west side of Manhattan. Very intellectual. I would not recommend it to someone who was not "of means." NY is expensive.
  8. Vassar. It's in a small city about 2 hours north of NYC.

If you’d consider rural areas:

-Bowdoin College, in Maine
-Williams College, in Williamstown Mass. Williamstown is a charming town, and not far from the five-college area of Amherst/Northamption.
-Amherst College - Amherst Mass. Not really rural. But not really suburban either. Hard to describe. It’s like a big town. Lots of stuff to do. It’s not isolating. And if you need a bigger-city fix, it’s about 2 hours to Boston
Middlebury – It’s very rural, in Vermont. But take a look. I think you’d like it. No football team, no Greeks.

For a safe school, look at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. Worcester is a small city about one hour west of Boston.

25

First thing coming to my mind for a match school is St. Johns College in Annapolis Maryland. For low reach, Swarthmore and Haverford. For reach(for anyone-but you have stats to make it in), UChicago. All are schools my oldest son considered/applied to as a math major with strong interest in philosophy, looking for same type of environment you are seeking. Attended UChicago and was very happy.

26

Princeton- Gorgeous campus, intellectual student body, suburban location, strong alumni network, grade deflation, eating clubs
U Chicago- Gorgeous campus, student body is known for being quirky and intellectual, urban, Midwest location, core curriculum, not the best part of Chicago, quarter system
Columbia- Located in New York City, nice campus, core curriculum, liberal and very intellectual student body
Northwestern- Lakefront, suburban campus located outside of Chicago, artsy student body, there are D1 sports and present greek life but they don’t dominate the social scene, great arts/communications, quarter system
Georgetown- Campus is in a wonderful part of DC (you really can’t beat the location), somewhat pre-professional, international focus, strong basketball team that doesn’t dominate campus life, very strong political science
Tufts- Located right outside Boston, international focus: lots of international students, collaborative student body
William and Mary- Public university located in Williamsburg VA (2 hours south of DC), down to earth student body, students work very hard, gorgeous old brick campus
Harvard- Not much to say here, student body is obviously very intellectual, campus and location are both good, one potential con is that there is a very strong grad student presence so there is less time spent on undergrads
Yale- Amazing campus, located in New Haven Connecticut which can be kinda sketchy, residential college system
Brown- I really think you would like Brown. Very liberal and intellectual student body, nice campus in Providence Rhode Island, open curriculum, collaborative students
Swarthmore- Liberal arts college located outside Philadelphia. Beautiful campus. Very intellectual student body. I’ve heard that there’s a big stress culture
Washington University in St. Louis- I’m a little biased because this is my school. Beautiful campus in St. Louis Missouri. As mentioned above, the student body isn’t very economically diverse but the school is actively working on it. Excellent dorms and great food (the city of St. Louis has great food as well). Students are very friendly and collaborative, flexible academics (easy to double major and to take classes outside of your area of study)
Rice- Located in Houston Texas, residential college system, great student life, very STEM focused
Barnard- A women’s college that’s part of Columbia
Amherst- A liberal arts college located in Amherst Massachusetts, quintessential collegiate campus, (I honestly don’t know much about Amherst)
Wellesley- Women’s college outside Boston, gorgeous campus
Wesleyan- In Middleton Connecticut, very artsy and liberal student body
Vassar- In Poughkeepsie New York, gorgeous campus, very popular for English majors
Macalester- Liberal arts college in St. Paul Minnesota, international focus, liberal student body
Haverford- Located outside of Philadelphia, nerdy and intellectual student body, very small
Bryn Mawr- Gorgeous campus, located outside of Philadelphia, all girls
Franklin and Marshall- Liberal arts college located in Lancaster Pennsylvania
Lafayette- Liberal arts college located in Easton PA
Mount Holyoke- All girls, liberal arts, located outside Boston, gorgeous campus, would be a safety

27

I will also add: look into Pomona College in southern California – it’s part of the very respected and selective consortium of colleges known collectively as Claremont colleges.

Congratulations on your excellent SATs – being a full-pay student with these kinds of stats means you will have many wonderful options.

28

Middlebury has an intercollegiate, varsity football team, as do all but one of the NESCACs.

29

URochester

30

Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Columbia and, perhaps Barnard.

31

@justdreaming: this post coincides with my understanding. I posted three recommendations earlier (Chicago, Princeton & Columbia), but if you need a longer list this is it.

32

@OutOfKantrol Your academic record is amazing and your math skills are strong enough to realize that schools with acceptance rates of less than 10% are not sure bets for anybody. You have received many wonderful suggestions already of places that are at that level of competitiveness. For me, life of the mind plus little to no Greek life, I would think that Chicago and Swarthmore would be very good fits for you. An added bonus is that you’d be in major metro areas where a direct flight from the UK is a possibility.

If you are looking for schools that are more matches than reaches with like qualities, I would check out Macalester (St. Paul, MN - and the cold is of a magnitude that simply doesn’t happen in England!). Macalester really prizes its international student population and student engagement as global citizens.and Oberlin College, which is not far from Cleveland, OH. My kid is at Oberlin and she was seeking a place where intellectual curiosity is prized and partying is deemphasized. If you like music, it is also home to a top conservatory and free or very cheap music performances are available on a near daily basis.

An added benefit is that both places offer merit scholarships that can knock off 20K or more from the base price. Yes, your folks can afford full price, but who doesn’t like to save a bit of money.

Personally, I think you can aim high. But it’s also nice to have viable alternatives that are a bit more predictable. Oberlin and Mac generally are ranked mid 20s for LACs in the US so they are still great places. Grinnell is similar to Mac in many ways but more rural and international transportation would be a bit more cumbersome.

Good luck!

33

I’ll end up repeating a lot of people, but this would be my list for small-to-midsized schools, with established intellectual academic vibes, either in a city or not far from one (since almost no LACs are actually in cities of much size):

UChicago
Swarthmore
Reed
Columbia
Carleton (the Twin Cities are fairly close)
Haverford
Vassar
Wesleyan U
Brown
Amherst
Pomona (maybe too far from LA; check it out)
Princeton

If you are a female, add:
Wellesley
Smith
Bryn Mawr
Barnard
Mt Holyoke
Scripps

LACs in big cities:
The aforementioned Reed
U of Richmond
Macalester
Holy Cross
Colorado College (well… a decent-sized city)
Rhodes
Trinity College
Occidental

34

There are many good suggestions here. Since you’re interested in a PhD program, here were the top 30 schools for producing humanities PhDs on a size adjusted basis from 2006-2015 (unfortunately, no breakdown of philosophy in particular):

  1. Reed
  2. St. Johns, Annapolis
  3. Swarthmore
  4. St. Johns, Santa Fe
  5. Bard
  6. Bryn Mawr
  7. Yale
  8. Amherst
  9. UChicago
  10. Carleton

All of these schools are generally classified as the most intellectual schools in the country, and all are within 2 hours of a major urban area (some, far closer). I would especially check them out. You can find a full list of the top 100 schools here: https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/Doct%20Rates%20Rankings%20by%20Broad%20Disc%20Field-Summary%20to%202015.pdf (page 19)

In addition, I would reach out to professors in the department about their success in sending students to competitive graduate schools. There is a disproportionate representation of certain colleges at the top 10 ranked philosophy programs, and this was a study from 2011: http://schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com/2011/10/sorry-cal-state-students-no-princeton.html Reed seems to do especially well, representing 3 of the 94 U.S. bachelor’s attending grad students at these programs.

35

Another thing to think about in narrowing your list is how you feel about general education requirements. Most schools want your undergraduate education to have both breadth (taking classes across various disciplines) and depth (your major). But there are very different approaches to this. On one end of the spectrum is Columbia, with its core currriculum, which prescribes specific classes that take up nearly 2 years worth of classes. The other end of the spectrum is Brown, with its open curriculum. You have to complete a major, but otherwise are free to take whatever you want. Most schools are somewhere in between. I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. If you have a preference (some people do, some don’t), you should look at the requirements of various schools. You can generally find the requirements by poking around a school’s website, checking on graduation requirements or searching for terms like distribution requirements or general education requirements.

Pretty much every school is going to have sports teams and parties. The question is how much sports and drunken idiocy dominate the social life of the school. But don’t assume that being an athlete or liking drinking are incompatible with serious intellectual interests. You’ll probably want a school with no Greek life or low levels of participation.

I’d quibble a bit with a couple of descriptions of schools above. I don’t think Yale’s reputation is for being preprofessional, which is not to say that it doesn’t send plenty of people on to professional schools. University of Pennsylvania’s reputation is for being extremely preprofessional (ie, lots of people knowing what job they want or feeling pressured to know and lots of decisions about everything from classes to EC’s being made with an eye towards their resumes) and for being the social ivy, lots of parties, lots of emphasis on having a very busy social life. It’s certainly a great school and you can get a terrific education, but I suspect it’s not the school for you.

I would urge you to get your hands on a book called The Fiske Guide to Colleges. Each year they survey students about many of the factors that make up the environment of each school and do a write up. It has a reputation for accuracy. This will help you get a sense of what each school is like beyond what you can tell from numerical data. Of course, visiting is even better, but that will obviously be hard for you. And if you do manage a trip here to visit schools, it will help narrow things down for that.

I went to Wesleyan in the 80’s, when it was a bit smaller than it is now and I found it plenty big. Of course what’s too small and what’s too big are very individual tastes, but even a small school of say 2000 undergrads is going to feel big after your secondary school.

Use rankings like US News and World Report, not as the gospel about which school is “best” or because there’s some important difference between #10 and #15, but as a general check to make sure you’re not overlooking any schools with good reputations that you want to learn about. Chances are there are some excellent schools that you’ve never heard of.

Good luck!

36

You will definitely find that environment at William & Mary. In fact it is one of the things it is known for. Also it happens to have a fun/interesting connection to the UK!

37

I’ve made a list of all the colleges people have recommended here and I’ve tried to sort them into what would be my reaches, matches, and safeties. I’ve done this by what people have told me are my reaches/matches/safeties and looked at their acceptance rate on US News and average SAT score on Prepscholar to group similar ones together to form these lists. I was wondering if anyone could tell me how accurate this is? I’m not sure I’ve got my safeties right. I get that there isn’t an exact algorithm but you are all a lot more experienced than I am with better judgement and better knowledge of just how competitive these schools actually are.

Reaches:
Cornell
Yale
Brown
Columbia
Williams
UChicago
Bowdoin
Dartmouth
Rice
Harvard
Penn
Tufts
Swarthmore
Amherst
Pomona
Princeton
Johns Hopkins

Matches:
Haverford
ColoradoC
Carleton
Carnegie Mellon
Middlebury
Georgetown
Washington U in St. L
Barnard
Grinnell
Wellesley
Vassar
Scripps
Brandeis
URichmond
Reed
TrinityC
NYU
Hamilton
Northeastern
Lafayette

Safeties:
URochester
Smith
St. John’s
Franklin & Marshall
Rhodes
Sarah Lawrence
Occidental
Bard
Macalester
Bryn Mawr
Mount Holyoke
Holy Cross
Clark
George Washington

Unsure about:
William & Mary (I get that it will be more difficult to get in since I am not a Virginia resident, but how much more difficult? Is it a match or a safety?)

38

http://www.history.pitt.edu/
http://classics.pitt.edu/
http://www.philosophy.pitt.edu/

University of Pittsburgh would be a great choice for those majors, in the Honors college you could pursue a BPhil and study those subjects in breath and depth to your heart’s content, you could double and triple major if you wanted.

Pittsburgh is also a fun city.

39

@OutOfKantrol: Your list of 52 colleges & universities is too big simply because there is a chance of picking a very unsuitable school for you based on your posted preferences.

Consider focusing on these schools that most closely match your wishes. Size, what constitutes medium or small, is not clearly defined by you.

Based on the 2011 study of philosophy PhD program students"

  1. Chicago

  2. Princeton

  3. Columbia

  4. Harvard

  5. Yale

LACS (liberal arts colleges)–small enrollment schools

  1. Swarthmore
  2. Pomona

If you want a larger list, then you will be adding schools which do not meet your specifications, in my opinion.

Many of the colleges & universities on your list of 52 would be very poor choices for one of your intellect & for what you are seeking as posted in this thread.

40

Lots of great schools mentioned. Of course the NE has tons of fine LACs that would do the trick. Based on your original post, I keep going back to William & Mary. It popped in my head as soon as I read your preferences. Very intellectual. Totally focused on undergrad. Small classes taught by profs (no TAs). Historic campus with incredible character and traditions.

Funny, S was admitted and chose elsewhere because he wanted the weekend football tailgate parties and all that goes with it. When we visited W & M (twice), we noticed lots of students hanging out in small groups under a shade tree in the sunken gardens. A few throwing a frisbee. Many stretched out reading a book. Right out of a movie. He thought it was too sedate. I thought it was awesome!

Your stats are outstanding. Hard to say how anything works with admission, especially for international students. That said, you are competitive at all the schools listed (including Harvard - your GC is right! I would absolutely consider applying to Harvard).

Best of luck to you!