You should also consider St. A’s and Edinburgh.
Strong in philosophy yet you still get to take classes in other subjects.
If the OP wants a broad US-style college education, are Oxbridge and other top Brutish schools going to supply it?
We’ve given her some of the best-known intellectual powerhouses in or near cities that this country has to offer. Hopefully as she reads up on them she’ll recognize the ones that fit her in other dimensions too.
As for whether a core or a senior thesis has more intellectual potency – i don’t know. It may vary by the individual: the one he or she puts more into will probably be the one that benefits the student the most in terms of building the mechanics of critical thinking, persuasive discourse, etc.
If a kid can do a senior thesis at Barnard and take some of the core classes at Columbia, that could be a pretty potent combo.
@prezbucky, Oxbridge would not, but other top British unis could. Several of them offer Liberal Arts degree programs now which allow as much flexibility as an American college (though restricted to the humanities and social sciences, so no STEM, though UCL does have a different Arts&Science degree).
And the Scottish unis offer some flexibility to take classes outside of your course/major. You’d still go more in depth in to a field of study than an American liberal arts major would (2.5-3 years out of 4 devoted to what you read as opposed to something like 1-1.5 years out of 4 devoted to a typical American liberal arts major), but that still leaves room to take other classes.
Core classes at CC aren’t open to Barnard students … and a Columbia student might be able to do an optional senior thesis within their department, but wouldn’t ordinarily be allowed to enroll in a Barnard senior seminar (for the thesis prep class) – unless they were taking their major at Barnard. So no, that’s not going to happen. There is general open registration between campuses, but the large required core courses and Barnard first year seminars, and the senior seminars for majors within various departments are exceptions.
I’m not sure the benefit in any case. The content of the core is essentially replicated in all sorts of Barnard classes - it’s not some sort of unique or obscure subject matter. A student like the OP with a humanities-focused major is likely going to get that sort of course content whether or not it is requiered across-the-board. The difference really is in the dynamic of all students taking the same courework at the same time, but that is not necessarily advantageous. (I’d assume that the quality of the core could be quite variable depending on the section a student was assigned to – whereas when Barnard students opt to take various intro courses covering similar material they would be able to choose the section and professor. In the end my advice to college students everywhere is to choose courses as much as possible based on who teaches them not based on the course description.
I do have the impression that Barnard provided more opportunities for undergrads to develop close relationships with faculty – that’s a quality that tends to be associated with LAC’s rather than research universities. So the same might be true if the choice was between Haverford or Harvard.
It’s really rather silly to get into these sort of fine-line distinctions. These colleges all occupy the same educational tier and every one of them (including all the others that have been mentioned) offer students the opportunity of a top notch education. The OP will find that they all offer the opportunity to major in philosophy and study with top-notch profs, or study English, history, politics, classics, or whatever else she decides she wants to pursue once she is in college.
@OutOfKantrol, wow what a big thread. I hope you are finding the info/discussion helpful.
Just wanted to recommend “Lady Bird,” Greta Gerwig’s autobiographical movie of her journey from CA to Barnard. Saoirse Ronan plays the Gerwig-based character during her senior year of high school in Sacramento, and a central thread is her college app process. It’s very well done and in theaters now, and available online. Thought it would be interesting to you as someone going through the same process, with similar interests.
(This is not intended as a movie advertisement. I think it mightl be interesting and helpful to the OP as they go through the college app process, especially in that they are an international student considering college in the US.)
Thanks @57special for mentioning McGill. It’s not quite what I’m looking for but admission sounds a lot more stats driven so it could be a good safety. Tuition also happens to be roughly the same as UK universities which, although my parents are okay with paying the full sticker price at a US school, it would be nice to have a cheap option comparable to home universities (after the extra travel costs).
@PurpleTitan Interestingly enough, when I first started looking at universities last April, I was really interested in the St. Andrews honours degree but it still didn’t quite give me the access to a broad liberal arts education I desired so I decided that I would apply for the joint St. Andrews/William & Mary degree (this is back when I wanted to major in English) and I was pretty set that that was my plan until I came to the realisation that I was way, way more excited about the idea of spending two years at William & Mary than I was about the idea of two years at St. Andrews. So I sat down with my parents and talked it though and we decided that going to a college with a US style curriculum was the decision that made the most sense.
@momrath When you said I should apply to as many colleges as I can handle, how many were you thinking? 5-10? 10-15? 15-20? In the UK you can apply to a maximum of 5 - 4 for medicine - which I’ve come to learn is way too little in the US, but I’m still really unsure about how many I should be applying to. I get that it depends on how much work and money you are willing to put in, and I’m willing to pay as many application fees as I need to and put in a lot of work - one of my main ECs is writing so I think I can write quite a lot of them in not too much time. So what would you guys say is a good range?
@TTG That movie sounds amazing! I’ll definitely check it out. I’d heard about it and thought it was about Lady Bird Johnson, haha.
Also I’ve read a bit about hooks. I will be a first generation college student - both of my parents dropped out of school at 16 & 17. Will this give me a very slight boost in admission? Also you guys guessed correctly - I’m not an ethnic minority.
My D applied to 16 schools. Seems like a lot but got started on essays in summer. It ended up not being a big deal at all especially because she enjoys writing. Some schools are free to apply too, some have fees and some schools will send waivers to apply for free. Some schools have no additional essay outside of the main essay on Common application. Mine added in a few schools that had no additional essays, one was early action. She got accepted, invited into a special honors program and was given an academic scholarship worth $37K a year.
Typically first generation helps in US admissions. Not sure how it works for an international. I’d imagine quite a few international applicants are first generation.
Re: “I’d imagine quite a few international applicants are first generation”… I’m curious whether this is true. Most of the international students I have known over the years have come from highly educated families.
BTW, I would say the the OP is anything but “clueless”. Smart idea to make this thread.
Actually comment was based on what I have read on college confidential actually. I could be totally wrong!
[quote=@outofkantrolWhen you said I should apply to as many colleges as I can handle, how many were you thinking?
[/quote]
Very roughly, 20-25 in total. If the idea of mid-sized (non-Ivy) privates appeals to you then I would split the list 50/50 LACs/mid-sized privates. I wouldn’t even count super selectives like Yale, Princeton and Columbia in the total. By all means apply: They’re going to admit a few non-URMs from the UK and you might just be one. But accept that percentage-wise your chances are low.
The Common Application makes multiple application less onerous (but still costly). You do, however, have to put a lot of effort into the “Why X?” essay. If the college doesn’t have a "Why X?’ essay then the question needs to be answered in another essay or in your recommendations. Remember, you need to communicate what you can do for College X, not just that College X is your dream school.
Applying early may help you strategize your list. If you are accepted early to your top choice school, then you are done. If you are waitlisted or denied, then you may want to recalibrate your list. Be aware of different early application schemes: single choice early action, early action, early decision, early decision II. Each has different rules and ramifications.
I think first generation to go to college is a strong positive, especially if there’s an accompanying overcoming hardship story that impacted your life. Again, these kinds of trajectories – from high school dropouts to being able to afford $300K for their daughter’s education – are often compelling essay material. Just make sure the essay says something about you, and is only indirectly about your parents.
I think Reed. Very intellectual, sends tons on to phd programs, everyone writes a senior thesis. And the application is free. Portland is a great city with good airport.
Is there a school that hasn’t been named?
imo 20-25 is way too many for a high-stats full-pay kid. I can’t see her not getting at least one of Wellesley, Vassar, Wesleyan, Barnard or Bard. @OutOfKantrol, my suggestion is that you cap yourself a 12-15- which is ambitious enough!
Is there anyway that you can visit the US during Easter break? From New York you could easily visit Columbia/Barnard, Swarthmore/UPenn (train from NYC to Philly), Vassar/Bard (train from NYC). If you came in via NYC and flew out from Boston you could also visit Wellesley, Tufts and Brown. The point would be to actually go see a few of these places and get a tiny sense of what they are like. That doesn’t mean you necessarily apply to all (or even any)- but it will give you something to go on (and a year from now you can go to re-visit days at the ones that you have been admitted to & are seriously considering). Going during Easter break means that most of them will be in session, so there will be students around and classes on, which makes a really big difference.
One thing though:
you said:
to which I can only say ‘oh, honey…’
(now I will go re-watch that episode of HIMYM)
“Harsh winters” and “England” are not too words this northeasterner puts together. Not to mention upper midwesterners where they would laugh at our “harsh winters” !
@OutOfKantrol Regarding number of applications - my child applied to 9, including separate scholarship applications for some schools, and that was very time consuming. You are targeting somewhat more selective schools so your strategy may differ. However, I think more than 12 applications would become onerous.
You should consider applying EA where it is available. Should you be accepted to a school or schools before January deadlines, that might enable you to cross some off your list that are of less intrinsic interest.
As your parents have ample funds, you might consider ED application, if there is a school that rises to the top as your absolute favorite AND if they agree. I wouldn’t recommend that option unless you first visit the campus when school is in session and sit in on a class or two to determine if the intellectual fit is right for you.
@collegemom3717 Haha, another How I Met Your Mother fan!
@collegemom3717 No, no, I am under no impression that English and Minnesota winters are the same thing. I’ve seen ‘It’s so cold in Minnesota that…’ videos. What I meant was that I don’t mind the cold - I actually prefer it to the hot - as I know that for some people the thought of -20 degrees Celsius is a deal breaker.
OutofKantrol, I have a son who doesn’t mind the cold – really likes it, in fact, minus 20 C doesn’t phase him a bit-- but really dislikes heat and sun. He was thrilled to travel throughout coastal northwestern US where the summer temps were often in the 10-15 degree Celsius range, and rainy. Norway, Sweden sound like paradise to him. To each his own.
@collegemom3717, you may well be right. I hope so as I agree that a small LAC would be a good fit for the OP.
It’s just so hard to get clear, reliable and granular data on international admits by country, especially for LACs. In statistical recaps the colleges often inflate the totals by including American expats, students with dual US/other citizenship and green card holders in their international figures. A college’s geographic diversity map may show that it enrolled x number of students from the UK, but that figure may include students who are otherwise categorized as US citizens or permanent residents in admissions.
It takes a good deal of digging to find out how many internationals applied, how many were admitted and how many enrolled. For example, by combing through press releases and Fact Sheets, I learned that Amherst admitted 95 internationals and Williams 103 for the Class of 2021.
I would conclude that a typical LAC admits around 100 bonafide international students each year. Depending on the size of the LAC and its success and interest in matriculating internationals it may admit 25% more or less. I’ve never seen application or acceptance figures broken down by country.
The greatest number of enrolled internationals generally come from Canada, China, India, Korea. The remaining are spread over 50 to 60 countries. The UK figures vary from school to school and year to year, but my guess is that UK admits average in the range of 5 to 10 students per year.
Because the OP is full pay and the first generation to attend college, she may well be one of those chosen. Because she is not an ethnic or religious minority or from a lower economic strata, she may not be one of those chosen. Her extracurriculars, talents, interests will be the deciding factor; however, we don’t have her EC information.
That’s why I recommend that she cast an exceptionally wide net.