Very reach-heavy but I think you will get in somewhere.
That’s a lot of apps so a lot of work.
BTW, Sarah Lawrence (and Williams) sends a lot of kids on exchange to Oxford.
Stanford is mostly known for STEM. They are probably underrated in the humanities. (Their grad programs in the humanities are ranked highly, generally, but then almost every grad program at Stanford is ranked highly. I don’t think grad rankings can be used to assume undergraduate strength or commitment/focus).
Yale is the opposite: known for the humanities and social sciences, and probably underrated in STEM. Much of the Ivy League is probably underrated in STEM.
I have never really thought of Stanford as having a particularly strong intellectual vibe – I have thought of it as a school focused mainly on STEM and entrepreneurialism – but that doesn’t mean it lacks intellectuals, or intellectualism, entirely.
Your list is full of top-notch schools that will provide quality in (virtually) every major/program they offer.
We have listed many of the schools with a reputation for being hard, for making you think and write a lot, for making you defend your points and critique others’ – schools known for their intellectual academic vibes.
I would not have put Stanford or Harvard on this list as they are more balanced between pre-professionalism and intellectualism – maybe even leaning more on the pre-professional side, especially Stanford – and I don’t hear much about the amount of work they require. I’ve never seen anyone say “Wow, the workload at S/H is brutal!” or “I had a 2-hour discussion about the effects of tariffs in 16th century Florence with a classmate.” 
Rumors of grade inflation have been mentioned about both schools – doing less work, or lower-quality work, for the A. This does not strike me as an intellectual practice, if it is indeed true. (and i’m not sure it’s established, but rumors persist)
Anyway, however you choose to view H and S, you have plenty of schools from which to sift and winnow your desired crop of applications.
Your stated preferences are for an intellectual academic vibe and an urban setting.
I think you can go about this by considering other areas of fit, like:
Academic factors:
- Majors offered
- Class sizes (there will be differences between LACs and U’s in survey-level courses)
- Curriculum type (standard distribution requirements vs. core vs. open)
- Ease of changing your major (many students do)
- Academic calendar (semesters vs. trimesters vs. quarters…)
Environment:
- Location
- Weather
- Campus appearance, convenience, size
- Housing & food
Social vibe:
- Party/Greek scene
- Sports scene
- Political scene
- Clubs
- Thibgs to do around the town/city
- Nearby outdoor activities available
It is up to you to do lots and lots of reading about these schools and, if you have questions, we are here.
And it bears repeating: don’t forget to apply to a safety or two!
Trying to help you wrangle the list to something manageable:
(opinon, obvs)
I would see these as all pretty safe for you so imo you could cut all but 1-3 of these.
Brandeis
Bryn Mawr
Carleton
Clark
Dickinson
Macalaster
Rhodes
Scripps
Sarah Lawrence
Smith
These look like solid matches: no reason you shouldn’t get in except for the randomness of admissions. You might cut 1/2 of them:
Barnard
Haverford
Reed
Tufts
Vassar
Wellesley
W&M
Although these should be matches, the numbers have gotten so tight that the stats are more problematic. Can you cut 1/2 of them?:
Brown
UChicago
Pomona
Swarthmore
Wesleyan
These are all pretty unlikely- they reject 90%+ of applicants including 1–3 classes worth of truly qualified applicants, so apply as you will (I’d suggest Yale & Columbia, but that reflects how I’ve interpreted your posts!)
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Columbia
Stanford
Also, some of these are part of the same consortium (ie, Swarthmore / Haverford / Bryn Mawr) so imo apply to the one you like best of them and let the others go.
Remember, for each one of these you will be writing a ‘why us’ essay and possible another essay, plus the common app essay. Making ‘why us’ sound alive and real- and as if you have some idea about the school- takes a lot more energy than you might think!
@collegemom3717: Carleton definitely isn’t a safety, though granted, they almost certainly don’t get as many Brits as the East Coast schools. Smith probably should edge up a tier as well. And even in the lowest tier, admissions could be idiosyncratic, so assume something like 80-90% chance of admissions at each. I’d apply to at least 3 of them.
The U of C and Brown also should go up a tier as they are also extremely difficult to enter. The U of C during RD is nearly impossible these days and Brown is pretty idiosyncratic in admissions, so stats wouldn’t tell you much.
I would add UChicago to that last “most selective” group, as their overall admit rate is around 7% and their RD rate is around 2-2.5% – ridiculously selective. I think Wesleyan belongs in the group preceding the one into which it was placed. Finally, I’d move Carleton up one group.
Other than that, those groups seem pretty accurate. I would have it like this. Keep in mind that it is generally harder for international students to get into highly selective universities than it is for them to get into highly selective LACs, since the unis get so many more international apps:
Reach:
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Stanford
UChicago
Columbia
Brown
Low reach:
Pomona
Swarthmore
High match:
Haverford
Carleton
Wellesley
Wesleyan
Vassar
Smith
Barnard
Tufts
W&M (OOS)
Scripps (the claremonts are very popular…)
Match:
Reed
Bryn Mawr
Macalester
Brandeis
Match/Low match:
Dickinson
Rhodes
Low match/safety:
Sarah Lawrence
Clark
St. John’s College
New College of Florida
I think she should apply to the schools she likes the best, persuaded by the common sense telling her she shouldn’t only apply to the most selective.
If it were me, and this were my list, I would remove Stanford and Harvard and pick four reaches/low reaches, five from the match ranges, and one safety… for a total of 10 apps. But it isn’t my list, so if she wants to send 20 apps, so be it, as long as one is a safety.
Not going to disagree with you @PurpleTitan - and the groupings were for the OP in particular, not a statement of their relative selectivity in general. Just trying to help the OP pare the numbers down to something manageable, which is never going to be an exact science.
@prezbucky, I think you have it about right except I’d move Sarah Lawrence down.
Sarah Lawrence is a hidden gem for someone who has no interest in STEM (they’re not very strong, in fact, downright lacking in several STEM fields) and doesn’t mind far left politics. Student body isn’t going to be as high-powered as a whole as Ivies/equivalents/top LACs but they offer the tutorial system and send a lot of their top students on exchange to Oxford. Yet a safety for a full-pay top student.
NCF is a hidden gem for everyone (who doesn’t mind far left politics). Also offers tutorials and sends a ton of alums to grad school. Yet a safety for a top student.
I finally put Sarah Lawrence in the low match/safety group. A quick Google search revealed an admit rate of around 50%, which (to me) puts it on the cusp of safety for the OP.
I think this a a really, really good list for someone looking for intellectualism, especially if she can bend a bit to allow for non-urban locations.
I mean even the safeties have cool names – St. John’s College sounds like it’s part of Oxford or Cambridge, Clark (Griswold) U, New College (cool) of Florida (and warm), and one named after a woman.
“How big of a part do sports play on campus?”
Sports is definitely part of the culture there, I think Stanford may have the most athletic programs of any div 1 school. They take it pretty seriously but it’s not dominating like say Alabama where football is king. But Stanford does have tailgates a few hours before the football game, then you attend the game and of course the weather is great! They also host other non-Stanford events (soccer or football as you call it).
“Does STEM (especially CS and engineering) really dominate campus?”
I don’t think Stanford has a weakness, but it has been pointed out to me that this could be one of them, yeah the campus could be more stem focused than humanities.
“Rumors of grade inflation have been mentioned about both schools – doing less work, or lower-quality work, for the A. This does not strike me as an intellectual practice, if it is indeed true. (and i’m not sure it’s established, but rumors persist)”
It depends on the major but Stanford can be pretty intense, I don’t think you can coast without doing work.
If you only include schools that are in or from which you can easily reach big cities, below the reach list, you are left with:
Swarthmore
Haverford
Wellesley
Vassar(?)
Barnard
Tufts
Reed
Bryn Mawr
Macalester
Brandeis
Rhodes
Sarah Lawrence
St. John’s
NCF(?)
Swarthmore
UChicago
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Columbia
Brown
Pomona
Stanford
@OutOfKantrol - just pointing out that these colleges are very different that it would be a little odd to apply to all of them if you were looking for what you posted in your OP. Brown and Columbia are pretty far apart in terms of intellectual vibe and there may be no two different campus feels than Chicago and Stanford. I’m not saying this from reading their websites, I live half hour from Stanford, have visited the other three, and almost chose Columbia for grad school.
158
@OutOfKantrol To answer your question on UChicago, look for the courses that satisfy the Mathematical Science Requirement on this webpage:
http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/thecurriculum/#MATH
Words of caution: Math 11200/11300 is not a popular sequence and it may be canceled due to a lack of enrollment as most students will start at Math 13100 or higher. On the other hand, you can satisfy the Math requirement of the Core by taking CS or Statistic classes if you are truly allergic to Calculus.
Minor note: I have friends from the UK education system and I notice you spell mathematics as maths. In US we tend to just use the abbreviation math without the “s”. So don’t be surprised that the course description just spells MATH.
158
@OutOfKantrol From the Core requirement webpage:
http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/thecurriculum/#Core2
“Students take a total of six quarter courses in this category, distributed in the following way: at least two quarters of physical sciences, at least two quarters of biological sciences, and at least one in mathematical sciences. The remaining (sixth) course may be taken in any one of these categories, unless calculus is being used to satisfy the requirement in mathematical sciences. In that case, the student must take two calculus courses for the general education requirement.”
If I read it correctly, that means you can fulfill the math requirement with just 1 quarter course of Math/CS/Statistics. That means you don’t even have to take any class from the Math Department at all to fulfill the Natural and Mathematical Science 6-course requirement.
If you have further questions, may I suggest you going over to the UChicago forum and post questions there? There are current students that can give you more direct insight:
I think that’s why they were ordered in the way that they were (in post #157.) She’s not saying they are the same, but, that they each contain a bundle of favorable traits, in different amounts, ergo different (ostensibly, descending) values have been assigned them.
If she needs to shorten the list, the place to start would be from the bottom of the list she’s already made.
I’ve decided to take Stanford off my list - my concerns were right in that it isn’t right for me - and I’m looking into Harvard. I also realised that I missed Mount Holyoke and the New College of Florida off that list. St. John’s I have taken off my list, however. As much as I love the sound of the curriculum, I don’t think I can give up not majoring in philosophy, especially since I plan to get a PhD in the subject.
Some of you guys keep mentioning that places like Williams would be a good fit for me. Do you think discarding anywhere rural was a mistake? Is a college’s location not as big of a deal as I think?
I agree with you guys that my list is too reach heavy, hence the reason I need more suggestions for safeties. I’ve been strolling through places like college confidential and the Princeton review to try to find ideas. So far I’ve got Earlham, Beloit, Lewis & Clark, Lawrence, Occidental (possibly), and William & Hobart Smith. Do you think any of these schools are what I’m looking for?
Sorry, but your list is bordering on ridiculous.
Earlham, Beloit, and Lawrence are all small town/rural. Lewis & Clark is more of a suburban vibe than urban, even if it is in Portland.
@Publisher What makes you say that? Did see the part where I said it is not a final list but a trimmed list from all the original suggestions I was given? I plan to get it down to around 15.
I guess it really depends upon your definition of “intellectual” & on your definition of “rural”.
@OutOfKantrol , you have a number of what I would call, “extreme overlaps” that could be cut down by one. For example, Columbia and Barnard; Swarthmore and Chicago; Haverford and Bryn Mawr; Wesleyan and Vassar, IMO. If you take out one from each pair, it’s not as though the one remaining is all that shabby.