Finding intellectual peers at lower-ranked schools

You should firm-up your budget and determine exactly what you can afford. NPC’s are helpful but not all will show potential merit scholarships. Her GPA and potential scores probably should get you to about $40-50k/year at most private schools that are in the top 50-100 give or take. If you need the COA to be below $40k then you’ll probably need to look at lower ranked schools. That was our experience this year. We chose not to go that direction.

That said in-state options are usually the most practical. I get the appeal of App State and UNCW but to pass-up Chapel Hill or NC State instead is a head scratcher. Especially if she wasn’t keen on Furman or Wofford. The only other schools I can think of are College of Charleston or maybe Belmont in Nashville. My son preferred NC State over UNC-CH but didn’t apply either although I was at least hoping for NC State. I like Raleigh.

@chmcnm: Didn’t Wheaton just have one or two of its students named Goldwater Scholars?

yes, that is somewhat true… but things are changing so quickly now. You may have schools more desperate for enrollment by then.

ps I was offered pretty large merit from Rochester, Case Western, Holy Cross , and Bucknell… to name a few that are above lower tier. (not sure, but you may qualify for aid) which case changes everything.

Keep options open and cast a wide net. Schools that I thought would be a slam dunk for merit came back with very small, and vice-versa.

Based on your description of what she’s looking for, I recommend taking a look at UNC Asheville. Greek life is virtually nonexistent, and it’s one of the more academically rigorous UNC schools with an intense core curriculum. It’s a terrific bargain for NC residents.

UNCA has a smaller Christian population than some of the private southern liberal arts colleges like BSC, but it’s a very tight-knit and active community. My sister was active in Christian organizations on campus and also volunteered at local organizations like Camp Tekoa.

This is true. When I first started on CC that was one of the common themes about merit. There always seemed to be one or two surprise schools for each kid.

S20 got merit from all his schools except one. However, a few schools we thought he would get substantial money didn’t give much and schools we didn’t seriously consider gave substantial merit. I do think geographic diversity is part of the equation.

My understanding is that the only college that your daughter has visited & liked is Davidson College which is just a few miles from your home. Is this correct ?

At this time, your daughter’s preferences are for a small, Christian college even though she feels that her small, Christian high school has failed her.

Straight As at her school may be a significant accomplishment, or it may be that her small school is not a challenging academic environment.

(“She doesn’t ever feel challenged, and she doesn’t ever feel that her curiosity is satisfied by discussion in the classroom. She’s frustrated by slackers, especially if the slacker in the room is the teacher.” She says: “I love education, but the school has failed me.”)

She didn’t like UNC-Chapel Hill. She didn’t like Furman University. She didn’t like Wofford College. She doesn’t like her current small, Christian high school.

She doesn’t want a school that revolves around sports or a Greek system.

OP: I am going to be blunt. Your portrayal of your daughter presents her as a negative, judgmental person. Maturity may be an issue. Does she like herself ? If so, why so negative about everything else ?

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The thread title is: Finding Intellectual Peers At Lower Ranked Schools.

Based on what has been presented in this thread, that won’t be a problem.

In addition to the many schools suggested by others & on your current list, I encourage you to look at Berry College in Rome, Georgia (largest college campus in the world & almost everyone receives a merit scholarship), Birmingham-Southern College in Birmingham, Alabama, the University of Mississippi Honors College, Auburn University Honors, University of Alabama Honors College, College of Charleston Honors College, University of Oklahoma Honors, & University of Arkansas Honors.

(I tried not to repeat any suggestions offered by other posters.)

Your daughter should try to be more accepting of differences. It will make life & life decisions a lot easier & more enjoyable. Hopefully my impression is incorrect.

P.S. I forgot to note that your daughter also did not like Elon University. These feelings are important. Elon is very different than Furman or Wofford and UNC-Chapel Hill is quite different than all the others as is her current small, Christian school.

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Most schools in the south are going to have a Christian feel, even if they aren’t religious affiliated schools. The towns, the neighborhoods, the faculty may have a stronger Christian following that even some of the religious affiliated school. (Pepperdine has a reputation of being a more wild than say Liberty or BYU) My daughter went to a private school in Florida that wasn’t started by a religious order but had a chapel on campus that was staffed by a Catholic priest, it had a catholic Newman dorm (private funding to build) and was near many churches in the area.

Look at schools like Queens, Limestone, Belmont Abbey. You like Rollins (I LOVE Rollins), so look at Florida Southern (has nursing and a big biology dept), Flagler (I LOVE Flagler). She might find a science program in one of the colleges in North Carolina or Florida that is just what she’s looking for.

@twoinanddone: I also like Flagler College, but does Flagler College offer any science majors ? (I know that it has a large business major, psychology, performing arts, and communications, but it is not–at least to my knowledge–a school designed for pre-med students.)

Thanks in advance !

You all should take another serious look at Chapel Hill. At first glance there’s a lot of focus on greek life and sports, but it’s quite easy to find your own tight-knit, studious group. Remember, there are 17,000 undergrads and many will have the same interests as your daughter. I had many devout Christian friends at UNC and they were all able to find their place. Also, the money you save by going to UNC is almost illegal and it’s a world-renowned school.

To answer your title question: YES, she will find her intelectual peers at almost any college. The issue will be how many? And that will be a function of the overall size of the college.

I would start your college search by asking her high school counselors what colleges have students similar to your daughter gone to and been successful at? What colleges have similar students had academic problems at is also useful info. What you are trying to do is scale the challenge of college to the challenge of her high school.

Your comment about getting all A’s and not being challenged in high school can be a good thing, it can also be a troubling thing. College can and is a step up for most students. Being challenged and developing good study skills, good time management skills and the ability to work under pressure are all good traits to learn in high school. Her next years with AP classes should help with these items.

Top tier colleges do financial aid on a need basis as they already attract the top students. The next tier down colleges are always trying to move up in the ranking and want the good students. They can be better with the merit money than you would think. We were full pay and my daughter, with her grades, got some good merit money at one of those second tier, but still excellent, colleges. Merit money is more likely to come from private colleges than public colleges. We found that the private colleges were offering merit money such that it was almost a push, moneywise, between the private college and the public with no merit money.

Christian groups can be found in almost all colleges. Your college peers will actually be more than just one set of people. You will have your academic peer group, your social peer group, etc. I have friends from my college department, the fraternity I joined and the varsity sport team I was on. Some, but not much overlap. All are good friends.

The thing about choosing a college is that there is no perfect fit and no “un-perfect” fit. It is a matter of taking a positive attitude wherever she goes.

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Thanks for all of the replies and ideas. We will certainly start looking at some of the suggestions that have been made.

I think my daughter is a bit naive in thinking that there’s the perfect dream school out there - gorgeous buildings and green grass, students and professors that discuss random brainy things until the wee hours, and people who all love and support one another - all of this for a reasonable price tag. So, if we drive through or walk around someplace and she sees one thing she doesn’t like she checks it off. Maybe I shouldn’t have done these drive-by visits. A tour that emphasizes academic opportunities and campus culture may push her to look past the little things she hasn’t liked during our quick looks. As she looks further, I’m sure she will realize that her utopia may not be out there and she needs to make a list of best options. At that point, I think that schools like Elon and Wofford will go back on the list. She actually liked the Wofford campus, just didn’t like what was outside the gates. Wheaton is intriguing if she decides she’s ready to go further from home, and can handle the climate.

A little more background to understand where she’s coming from: she has attended three schools throughout k-12. Two have been small Christian schools, one was a highly ranked charter school. She has not really felt academically challenged at any, with the exception of her elementary experience with a specific teacher who was able to allow her to move at her pace because of small class size. She was part of a strong academic group at the charter school, but socially it was very difficult on her (bullying and eventually a concussion at school that was brushed off as “boys just horsing around”). We moved her back into a small private setting where she has thrived socially but there doesn’t seem to be many kids who push her academically. She does have to work hard in her classes, but she just wants to get in more depth and discussion. The big college sports, frat boy mentality reminds her of the social atmosphere at the charter school. You may judge her as negative, but I see a kid with a very strong moral compass who just appreciates a kind, supportive atmosphere. When I discussed issues at the charter school I was told that she just needed to toughen up and “boys will be boys,” and six months later she was clobbered in the head. Call it negativity if you want, but I don’t blame her one bit for wanting to be somewhere where she feels comfortable. Head injuries are no joke -they change your life.

The social atmosphere at small Christian schools is very different from the traditional schools, whether private or public. The community is literally like a family. Some of the kids are ready for the excitement of a big university (feeling like the parents held them back at this tiny high school!) and others go on to Liberty or smaller very conservative Christian schools. MANY want to go on to missionary work or ministry. She is the type of person who would go to med school and then move to Africa to treat people for free. I would say the social atmosphere at her school will make it a little more difficult to transition to some schools.

She doesn’t hate every school we’ve driven through/walked around. She loved Duke and Rollins. Duke is off the list financially, and the culture is probably not a fit. Rollins is definitely on the list. Davidson offers little merit money, and is probably too close to home anyway.

I agree with the post saying you can’t imagine passing up UNC-CH for App State or UNCW.

Our school has a guidance counselor but I think it’s a title more than anything - we get very little college guidance unfortunately.

What you described reminds me of the culture at Notre Dame. Not sure about the financials/merit awards though. Another Brother of the Holly Cross school worth looking at would be U. of Dayton. More generous with merit awards and has a similar culture.

Rollins College in Florida offers a nice country club like atmosphere. My understanding is that Rollins doesn’t really offer much for pre-med students. Rollins is a very social school. Really strong Greek system. Lots of students from wealthy families.

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You are also dealing with a 15 year old. Things change. My kids both wanted small schools and one chose one with 3500 on campus. She visited some friends at FSU in the fall of freshmen year and told me “You know, I could have done this.” (like I was the one suggesting a small school? I like big schools) At the time she was 17. By her junior year she wished she’d chosen a bigger school.

My other daughter ended up at a school with 10,000. She knew tons of people, was in a sorority (but only 10% of the school was Greek and they did not run the place), had d1 sports (but it did not dominate the campus), had plenty of religious community opportunities. She, too, found the school a little small as the years went by.

Yes, my D (SAT 1500+) attended an in-state public university and found many smart peers.

OP: It would be helpful if more information was shared as to why your daughter did not care for Furman University.

I was actually just about to comment that she seems to be like my daughter who was looking for the “perfect” campus/environment. It caused a lot of stress through the process because she kept expecting to find a place that when she walked on campus she just felt like it was the perfect fit. You need to help her with her expectations. While that might happen, odds are she will have to compromise in some way. We spent a lot of time talking about the pros and cons of various schools and in the end she narrowed in down to 2 that were vastly different and that she liked for different reasons. For about a week she would change her mind between the 2 before she finally decided. The decision isn’t always easy, especially when there are finances to consider. And in some ways, it’s not so bad she doesn’t fall in love with someplace before you know what kind of money she might get. My D had friends who fell in love with schools that their parents had to later tell them they couldn’t go to due to finances.

I agree that doing official visits are a lot different than just driving through on your own. I would recommend starting those when you are able. For schools where the honor college is important see if that is included on the tour, or if it can be .

Many small catholic schools might fit that bill and might also give merit for 1300+ stats.
For example U Scranton.

But if she has the opportunity to attend UNC system schools at instate rates, I would give them a second look. Once she has an idea of what she wants to study, try and make an appointment with that department and see if she can sit in on classes.

At UNC-Chapel Hill there will be many students with higher test scores.

If your daughter liked Rollins College in Florida, then she will probably like Flagler College in St. Augustine and Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs, New York as well as Connecticut College. And she probably will like Suwanee-The University of the South.

For pre-med, Rhodes College in Memphis, Tennessee should be a match. Franklin & Marshall College in Pennsylvania also should be an excellent match for pre-med study.

Academically, I wonder whether your daughter will be well prepared for a demanding academic environment based on your description of her experience at her current school. (Small, Christian school where she is not challenged academically.)

I think that she will do well academically at all of the schools that I have suggested in my several posts in this thread.

P.S. The University of San Diego might be an interesting & appropriate match for your daughter & her interests.