Finding my place in the hierarchy of music schools...

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I'm a bit unsure of where I fall in terms of my ability and where it would place me, in terms of music schools, and could use some guidance here. I apologize if this is the wrong forum and for the incoming wall of text, but here goes...</p>

<p>A little bit about me academically... I have a weighted ~12/12 GPA and a composite SAT score of 2210. I have plenty of extracurriculars and awards in a variety of fields, mainly social studies and music, with a few science and visual arts awards scattered in. I've taken the maximum allowable APs at my school on my track. Music is my passion, though, and I can't see myself going through life without playing, teaching, composing, and conducting. However, I need good academics in college to boot.</p>

<p>Musically speaking, I'm primarily a saxophonist, but I double on clarinet and dabble on piano. On sax, I play both classical and jazz very well, with classical perhaps edging out my jazz skill set. I'd like to go into classical saxophone performance/music education as a result. I have participated in my state's all-state festival for the past two years, and by resume and audition was third chair first alto sax in the NAfME National Honor Band this year. However, I do not have much soloist experience, nor have I entered any major competitions besides the ones mentioned above. My scope (due mainly to academics and other extracurriculars taking up a lot of time) is mainly limited to the jazz groups in our school (which I have won soloist awards for) and the honor festivals in the state. Because of my limited performance scope, it's difficult for me to gauge how well I'm positioned against other classical saxophonists applying to prestigious music schools.</p>

<p>Of the schools I've applied to thus far, my favorite is Northwestern/Bienen. I know they have ~7 seats open in the classical sax studio this year. I don't know how many classical saxophonists will apply, but that certainly places my odds better than at my second choice (musically, not in terms of campus feel/academics), University of Michigan. They have ~3 places open in their studio.</p>

<p>Besides Northwestern and University of Michigan, I've also applied to:
Harvard (ED, long shot, mainly academic)
Brown (legacy, love the academics and campus)
University of Hartford/Hartt
University of Connecticut
Skidmore (Filene scholarship with need-based would be spectacular)</p>

<p>Do you all think it's unrealistic for me to shoot for NU/Mich, knowing my credentials? What other schools should I be considering? I'm beginning to think that I should have other music schools on my list, 7 schools may not be enough for me.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>I don’t personally think its unrealistic to apply to those schools, but I think you might increase your odds by applying to a few more music schools. While its true that many students who do apply have had private teachers and regional or national coups, its also true that at the end of the day they’re looking at several dimensions that include your natural ability and musicality, and I have a hunch you may be more accomplished than you think :wink: Its ultimately the audition, not the resume ;)</p>

<p>Strategically, widening the net may help, though there’s no such thing as a safety in music. For example, while your academic stats are a good fit at northwestern and Michigan, which lends itself to some degree enhancing your chances against equal musicians, there are some schools where you’d be in the top percentages academically as opposed to the majority. As such, to the degree that academics help, that might give you an advantage. Eg. At Indiana Jacobs, you might qualify for academic scholarship as well. Beautiful campus and robust music program. There is also a music school at Hartt, where you’ve already applied. Eastman at Rochester is another that comes to mind.</p>

<p>By so-doing, you’d also enhance your chances at financial packages that suit. I don’t know your home state, but as a public, Michigan generally only meets full need for in-state students, though I know of generous exceptions and they will allow you to stack academic merit scholarship with music merit scholarship. Northwestern, as a private, meets need as it defines it. But in either case (and others like Oberlin) it all depends on your financial circumstances.</p>

<p>Another angle to consider is whether you’re applying straight performance, or to music Ed, or to a conducting program. There will be differences to some degree in the auditions. Just something to consider. Best wishes in your journey!</p>

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<p>I’m confused, if you want to do music performance or music education, why did you apply to Harvard ED? What is your plan? Have you also applied to NEC?</p>

<p>You should also consider Peabody/Johns Hopkins for a double degree - that’s where @Woodwinds daughter is, and I believe she had her pick of any saxophone studio in the country. She’s a fount of knowledge about saxophone programs.</p>

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<p>I think you may need to refine your list of schools, for example, neither Harvard nor Brown have performance degrees I believe, so you wouldn’t be able to do what you want there, and I don’t think they would offer a music ed degree. If you want to do both, you need to find programs that offer both degrees and would allow you do dual major like that. One note on the music ed degree, when you say you would like to teach, are you talking about teaching at the college level, or in public school K-12. Ed degrees generally are required when teaching at a public school music program (some private schools require an ED degree, a lot don’t as far as I know). so you may not have to take the Ed curricula unless you think you want to teach in the public schools (I don’t know of any college music program that requires an Ed degree, in large part because of the nature of the teaching…). So you need to really think about what you want to do, if you are thinking of teaching privately or at a college level, the Ed may be unecessary work if you don’t plan on teaching in public schools. Likewise, if you want to do performance, you need to find schools that offer it, if you went to harvard or brown you likely would study with a private teacher and play in their student ensembles, rather than doing a performance degree, since I don’t think either of them offer one. </p>

<p>If you do go for performance, the biggest part of that is going to be your audition, the lack of competitions, honors, etc, doesn’t mean much of anything, it is how you do on your audition (and pre screen, if they require it). Yes, there is leeway in admission standards, teachers on the panels look for different things, but it is going to be very competitive almost anywhere you are likely to apply. Northwestern and U Mich schools of music are up there on the competition factor, as high as almost any of the conservatory programs, and won’t be easy to get into. As you note, they don’t generally admit many sax players, in part because in the classical world the sax is not even used in a lot of standard repertoire, and when they do it is to fill positions in orchestra and/or wind ensembles, so it won’t be a lot, and while the sax is not as popular as let’s say violin, cello or piano, so you won’t have many applying, it is going to be a tough admit. </p>

<p>If you are not sure if your present teacher can assess where you are,I highly recommend finding a teacher, maybe at a music school at the college level near you, and get an assessment of where you are and what you need to do to get admitted to a competitive program (which most certainly Northwestern and U Mich are). You also need to look at the audition requirements for schools of music, to see if you have the repertoire they require, with an instrument like sax it usually is heavy with orchestral excerpts with some solo pieces and potentially etudes and such…one way to know is to see if you are playing the pieces they talk about, or rather the level of them, it can be a quick way to see where you are. </p>

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<p>I always like to post this essay for those in your situation: <a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html&lt;/a&gt; It describes the various ways to study music with or without another concentration, and different students who fit each type of program.</p>

<p>You can do a performance program, at a conservatory or music school, or a university with performance, for a BM (classical or jazz), which will involve 2/3-3/4 of your classes in music, including theory, aural skills, music history, technology, lessons, practice, rehearsals and performance, electives and then some gen ed requirements.</p>

<p>You can do a BA in music, at a college or university that has a “general music major” that will involve 1/4-1/3 (or even 1/2) of your classes in music (theory, aural skills, history, ethnomusicology, composition, technology), more gen ed requirements and electives.</p>

<p>You can do a BA or BS in another subject entirely and do music privately and as an extracurricular, taking some music classes as electives (or as a minor).</p>

<p>You can do Music Education as an undergrad or in a grad program afterward.</p>

<p>You can try to do a double major in a BA program, meaning, say, music and French; it can be hard combining music and, say, a science in a double major but some do it.</p>

<p>You can do a double degree program with either a BA/BM or a BA/MM, in which you might study music for the BA and the MM, or a different subject for the BA and music, obviously, for the MM. The BA/BM program would mean a different subject for the BA, of course.</p>

<p>State universities often have music education and also often have BM degrees. </p>

<p>If you are applying to Harvard and Brown, for instance, have you looked at the curricula for music majors? Brown has three strands: composition/theory, ethnomusicology, and technology in music. Harvard has a rigorous general music major with a few classes that have some performance aspects. Hartt and Bienen are music schools within universities. Skidmore is a liberal arts college. UConn is, naturally, a state university.</p>

<p>It is fine and even a good idea to apply to many different options, partly because you yourself might take time to decide exactly what you want. But you should realize that you have presented a list of schools that covers a lot of ground, and maybe start thinking about whether you want a BM, BA or combination of the two.</p>

<p>If you had posted a year ago, some on this forum might have suggested a private teacher, decreasing some of your other activities (many do not even do school band toward the end of high school), performing classical pieces more often, and maybe doing a summer program. Since it is now time to get applications in (or they are in) that is moot, and it is possible your talent and experience will give you lots of options: your academics certainly do too.</p>

<p>Have you submitted or are you submitting tapes for prescreening? That time is not far away and if there are prescreens you will know very soon if you have a shot. Good luck!!</p>

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<p>Here’s a past thread on Classical Saxophone. There are some specific professor recommendations within. Btw. Tim McAllister is now a professor at Michigan and is transitioning from Northwestern. <a href=“Classical Saxophone - Music Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1542703-classical-saxophone.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>And here’s an even older thread which is a treasure trove of older posts which contain info on saxophone: <a href=“Saxophone Performance? - Music Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/836570-saxophone-performance.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>SpiritManager-
I’ve chosen Harvard due to its financial aid. An alternate plan for me is to major in music at a high-ranking school, continue my studies privately, and then get a masters and/or Ph.D. That’s not ideal, though. Harvard is for financial aid and the legacy of good composers and conductors that went there as undergraduates. I am still chewing over NEC; I liked it when I visited. However, I do not think a dual-degree program with NEC is the way I want to go, because of financial aid. That’s a deterrent in general from conservatories for me. I also remember reading that Peabody @ JHU doesn’t meet 100% of demonstrated need. I don’t know if that still holds true, but it was again, a deterrent. I’m also spoken with Prof. McAllister about both Northwestern and University of Michigan and got some seriously intriguing insight I’m still chewing over. Assuming I’d get in to either school, the choice will be difficult. Thanks for the thread! I got a lot out of it.</p>

<p>musicprnt-
I would ideally start out teaching high school, preferably private school, get advanced degrees, and teach at the college level, if possible. I applied to Michigan for a teacher certificate instead of straight music ed because I didn’t want to put myself in the position of doing a fifth year of studies unless it counted towards a masters. Classical sax is a tough profession, but thankfully, I love the little bit of teaching I’ve done so far, so I think I could thrive, particularly in a collegiate environment. I have taken a lesson (and will take at least one more) about my audition repertoire with the professor at Hartt, Carrie Koffman, which was extremely productive. I’ve been working on one of the pieces since summer, and another since last summer. I can definitely manage the audition repertoire with what I perceive to be a good level of musicality, but I’m just not positive how I’d stack up to my peers in other regions besides the East, where I’m from.</p>

<p>compmom-
I took a look at those scenarios when I started looking at schools, they were intriguing! My options are immense, and I’ve formulated a few different plans of action, depending on the schools I get into, even as far as planning masters/Ph.D programs in the future. But it all depends on the schools I get into, I suppose… I’ve been very fortunate with my current teacher, he’s a band director and has been around the block. He seems to really admire my classical ability in particular, which is why I’m shooting for the academic/music route at NU/Mich in the first place. I also have ~15 minutes of professional-quality recordings on YouTube that I’ve used for arts supplements that I could use for prescreenings, too.</p>

<p>Finding other schools in the East/Midwest that have that same mix of great academics and great sax performance with the music ed option is proving to be very tough, especially when financial aid comes into play.</p>

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<p>What do you mean by the academic/music route at NU/Mich? Are you applying to music school there or do you think about double degree?</p>

<p>Good reason to apply to Harvard (aid) but their music program is excellent too: good luck!</p>

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<p>Don’ worry about money until April - you never know what things will look like then - it’s just not possible. Although I do understand the lure of Harvard and its phenomenal financial aid.
One of the old threads I posted pointed me to the Sax on the Web site, which I didn’t know about. But you do, I hope. Have you been browsing their college threads? <a href=“High School and College | Sax on the Web Forum”>High School and College | Sax on the Web Forum;

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<p>If you are accepted into the dual degree program at Peabody/JHU all the aid is from the Hopkins side, not Peabody, according to a Peabody AO I spoke with this fall.</p>