<p>Wise son:) SBMom.</p>
<p>In preschool, the director stopped the placement test she gives all students and turned to me and said, "There's no point in testing your son." I was puzzled & she elaborated that he was the 1st child she had ever tested that was trying to help her improve the test (which was a nationally validated national test for preschoolers). He was speaking at 6 months, talking non-stop at one year and taught himself to read before starting pre-school at 3 1/2. At 3 1/2, when his sister started pre-school, she would come home & tell me how each of the 12 kids in her class felt that day & why (& was extremely accurate & insightful).
Finding the right fit for gifted kids IS a challenge. I'm hoping we are able to find the right fit for our kids. Our kids are currently in a very academic school, but son says kids just study & don't really confer outside of class about issues that matter to him (current events, ideas covered in class), they are busy earning the grades & rushing from activity to activity. He's found folks that compete academically in school, but don't meet his need to discuss subjects of interest. Oh well, moving in the right direction--in public school, he didn't have academic competition.</p>
<p>Oh yeah? Well, my kids talked in the WOMB and came out of the birth canal walking...</p>
<p>oh gosh, sorry! I just couldn't resist! People, listen to yourselves!!!</p>
<p>(Full disclosure: I have worked with gifted programs - as a volunteer - for years and know what many of these posts say is true: gifted kids ARE different. But seriously, as a Supreme Court justice's father said, "You can hire brains just like you hire muscle. What can't be bought is character." There was nothing worse on these committees than the parents that came forward and constantly tried to one-up each other....)</p>
<p>lol nedad. I have been amused and dismayed looking at the posts on this thread. Newmassdad's post regarding Stanley's research on gifted children is ignored in favor of how difficult it is to raise our "geniuses". Are our genius children really the ones clamoring to be tutored to read before entering preschool? Would anyone on this site prefer the challenges of an autistic or learning disabled child versus a gifted and talented child? IMO the biggest challenge in raising a gifted and talented child is helping them maintain physical, emotional and intellectual balance. This is extremely difficult given our generations' huge ego investment in our children's accomplishments.</p>
<p>HERE HERE--mol10e--well said couldn't agree more. how lucky are we that our "bright" or "gifted" or blah blah blah kids only need a bit of help vs. like you said a LD kid. please these are the kids that can make it just about anywhere!</p>
<p>I doubt anyone would prefer the problems of dealing with autistic or retarded child. That does not diminish the problems that can occur with a very gifted child. I have a nephew who is extremely gifted but he is socially dysfunctional and his intelligence has been a curse. In real life there may not be a Robin Williams for every Will Hunting.</p>
<p>By their very characteristics, unusual kids in any direction are more difficult to raise as schools are designed to educate the majority of children. So kids who have physical or learning disabilities have to have accommodations--and by law, they are given some, though often totally inadequate accommodations. But, at least in our state, gifted children do not rate accommodations, and parents are on their own trying to figure what to do. Sometimes, their efforts are met with resistance on the part of teachers, as in the case of the 3rd grade teacher who refused to let my S do math with 4th graders, despite the fact that they were in the same classroom and it would have not disrupted anything. Her rationale was that she did not believe in tracking. Kids with disabilities were helped "to reach their full potential" but my kid's potential did not rate the same concern.
We never had our kid tested for giftedness; he took the SAT so that he could go to CTY at the urging of a camp counselor who saw how unchallenging the so-called academic camp he was then attending was.
Anyway, for kids who perform at above-grade level, college is wonderful. Unlike k-12 where there are all sorts of obstacles to taking more advanced classes, none such obstacles exist. At Harvard, for example, there are 6 different levels of introductory calculus as well as other introductory math courses for those not wanting to study calculus. In my S's high school there was only one 9th grade English, which students with reading skills from 5th grade to college level were all expected to take as long as they were 9th graders. </p>
<p>
[quote]
IMO the biggest challenge in raising a gifted and talented child is helping them maintain physical, emotional and intellectual balance.
[/quote]
This is very right, but not because of parental ego investment. Nerds are not popular; they are often the targets of bullies. When they are not, their more advanced knowledge distances them from their age peers but their age distances them from their intellectual peers. When I went to pick S up after a 6-weeks math camp, I saw several kids crying. For them, it was the end of an idyllic 6 weeks in which they had bonded with kids just like them, kids whose idea of fun was to do problems all day long.</p>
<p>"IMO the biggest challenge in raising a gifted and talented child is helping them maintain physical, emotional and intellectual balance."</p>
<p>Exactly. I started this thread to get other people's ideas about whether or not it is harder to find the right college fit for gifted kids. Many people have generously shared their stories, partly in response to questions raised about the nature of giftedness. I appreciate that. And I know very few parents of gifted kids who push their kids or try to boost their own egos through their children's accomplishments.</p>
<p>Since this is an anonymous forum, there is no personal gain for anyone to boast about their kids or to enhance a perceived "huge ego investment in our children's accomplishments." Those who have shared their stories have not given me the impression that they are into any kind of one-upmanship, as implied by nedad (whose posts I typically enjoy, by the way). But it's also not the kind of thing we can talk about with others -- it's too sensitive. Just as I am careful how I respond when people ask me where S1 goes to college. I don't like arrogance, and have tried to downplay that in my kids -- partly by making sure they are in challenging academic and musical activities where they are surrounded by comparably talented kids. I DON'T want them to be the biggest fish in the pond -- it's not good for them. I also try to point out that their abilities are not something they earned -- they just got lucky in the gene pool, so they shouldn't pat themselves on the back too much.</p>
<p>And no, I wouldn't prefer to have autistic or learning disabled kids. But my children't needs are no less important to me, and that is why I spend time on this forum. If a kid is 2-3 standard deviations above the mean in terms of I.Q. or whatever measure you want to use, that is just as atypical as a kid who is 2-3 standard deviation below the norm. And I'm well aware of the questions regarding the validity of i.q. tests, so please don't go off on a tangent about this.</p>
<p>If any of us felt the need to validate our own egos, I'm sure there are more interesting and fulfilling ways to do so. In fact, I would expect that many of the parents posting here were gifted children -- whether that was recognized or not -- and remember how hard it was to feel like you belonged anywhere. Many of us also feel overwhelmed in dealing with these kids 24/7.</p>
<p>But my point is that I think it is harder to find the right school for atypical kids -- anyone who is more than 2 S.D. away from the mean. And I personally have days when I would love to have a kid who just wanted to come home from school and watch the Simpsons, and who didn't question everything. They do watch some TV, but then I have to also cope with questions about women in the church, life after death, buddhism and quantum mechanics over dinner. And sometimes, I just want to read a novel or watch "Everybody Loves Raymond."</p>
<p>As Stanleys study indicates (thanks Newmassdad) gifted children, while intense, can be well-adjusted and popular with their peers. The gifted children I know who are well-accepted among peers are those whose parents work hard to ensure that their kid's academic needs are being met, but also try to avoid crowing (to the world and to the child him/herself) about the childs gifts. I know thats not easy, because theres a lot to be proud of, but I think boasting generates ill-will and underscores/reinforces the natural differences between gifted kids and non-gifted kids. Let's face it. In the outside world, virtually no one (except her grandparents) cares to hear that little Suzie is teaching herself high energy physics during breaks from rehearsing for her debut with the New York Philharmonic. ;)</p>
<p>LOL Nedad. I recall one of the many "gifted" threads from 2 years back when two of the parents (who are still here, but not on this thread) were "upping" one anothers children's accomplishments and someone finally made a comment similar to yours.....something about their child performing Shakespeare in an opera, in french, backwards. Hmmmm...was it you? As I read this thread, I keep thinking "hmmmm, I guess I could have gifted kids too, they did (do) most of this"...but it never occurred to me that this was anything more than what all bright kids do when they're in an encouraging environment. Aside from the normal standardized tests and Johns Hopkins CTY stuff, I never thought about taking my son for further testing. Then again, he was also into basketball, socialized well with many friends, played video games, had a girlfriend, etc. So, maybe that level of "everyday" stuff rules out any highly giftedness. It may have helped that he attended school where there were probably more than a fair share of technically "gifted" children, so there was none of that walking the perimeter of the schoolyard stuff (sounds so sad). </p>
<p>Seriously, I can understand these parents feeling comfortable in sharing these stories here and being happy to find some common ground. In my head, it doesn't seem like bragging because it sounds like quite a task to raise these kids and find comfort for them. It's not anything to envy, so I don't think they're bragging. Most of the parents here are used to the hard work surrounding finding a challenging environment and the right fit, but this sounds that worry "on steroids". </p>
<p>It also doesn't sound like this giftedness necessarily translates into success, happiness or an easier life - which are the things we all wish for our children. It seems like these kids have a natural born talent in a certain area. What that gets them when they're 22 or 24 and they hit the world, I'm not sure. I'm sure that's where some of the worry comes in for the parents - placing them correctly now so that they'll be best poised to manage adulthood with these talents and challenges.</p>
<p>Personally, I don't know that having a child with a natural-born talent in a specific area is better than having a child who achieves because of sheer determination and drive. If I had to wish one or the other on my child (drive or natural talent - I would pick drive because of the value it holds over the other variables in life) ....an these students will eventually go on to become entrepreneurs, employees, homeowners, spouses, parents, community members, travelers, etc.....and what it takes to thrive and be happy in all of these environs doesn't translate back to what we're discussing here. </p>
<p>I'm not saying these gifted kids will have a harder time as adults. I don't know enough about this to know what the future might hold for them. I'm just saying that this doesn't sound any "better" than having a kid who has a "gift" for "taking care of business" or an interest that drives them to excel. </p>
<p>I know there are parents who are reading this thread and rolling their eyes - but you really have to step back and think about it. Most of us here have kids who walked early (mine walked at 6 and 7 months), talked early, surprised their teachers, debate everything, read because of interest - not force, are smarter than us, score in the top 1-3%, have a keen interest in something challenging and excel at it.....but some of these stories sound like much more.</p>
<p>Well, my kids walked late, talked late, and couldn't master a bicycle until they were 9. One read early, the other was threatened with repeating first grade. And in third grade, both of them were officially declared "gifted." Since that meant they could move into dedicated public school classes, it also meant an end to their stifling boredom with school and that we avoided the need for private school for a few more years. </p>
<p>I am proud of my children and don't hesitate to give them credit for their "natural-born talents" (thanks, momsdream). However, there is a huge difference between a gifted kid and a merely smart kid who works hard. As a teacher, I've observed this again and again.</p>
<p>The gifted kid will suck up a new idea and connect it to three or four other ideas, then attempt to share her/his excitement at how it all connects, then create another new idea. The hardworking kid understands all this as the gifted kid explains it to him/her. (The kid who hasn't been working hard has wandered off to talk to his/her friends.) The gifted kid, in a good school that respects learning, is in demand as a study buddy to much older students who want those insights.</p>
<p>Because of this excitement about learning, academically gifted kids often have poorer grades than harder-working kids, because teachers--especially those who find gifted kid threatening to their classroom control (which many do)--often create tests that assess facts and details instead of the big picture. </p>
<p>(When my son was in sixth grade and in algebra 1 with mostly 9th graders, the teacher found out about his 630 on the SAT. She came to me and said "he did better than I did, how am I supposed to teach him anything?") </p>
<p>As my children have moved into college, I have been delighted that they finally have teachers who can consistently expand their knowledge and skills--and who have finally presented them with material that challenges the limits of their knowledge; that, for me, is the true definition of fit. As for public college, I thoroughly investigated our state colleges--UWashington is the best of them (ranked 50th (tier one) by USNWR in recent years)--and I could not be sure that they would get that there. The kids agreed and did not want to apply--although they have many friends who attend UW and they know it well.</p>
<p>I think the literature shows that moderately gifted kids (those 2 standard deviations above the norm -- I.Q. of 130 or so) are happiest and adapt well to school. My guess is that these are the bright, academically successful kids that most of us have, or else we probably would never have discovered CC! </p>
<p>The exceptionally gifted (3 sd above the norm -- I.Q. 145+) seem to have a more difficult time, especially if it's a question of global giftedness, rather than a high level of ability in a specific, rule-oriented subject like math. Profoundly gifted (s.d. 4+, I.Q. 160-180+) are as far removed from "normal" gifted kids as gifted kids are from average kids --what a difficult life those kids/parents have.</p>
<p>I have a comment about the implications of some of the posts so far. When someone belittles the concern a parent may express about their child's unusual abilities, that must be similar to what gifted kids experience in the classroom, and what is so frustrating for them. Just because giftedness has some value in our society doesn't mean that the problems that go hand-in-hand are not relevant and troublesome for those experiencing them. The problems are real to those who are experiencing them, and to imply that someone is "worrying on steroids" is insensitive.</p>
<p>I have 2 sisters who fall into the highler levels of giftedness category --and I can tell you that aspects of their personal lives have been very difficult.</p>
<p>dmd77--your post made me smile. I remember my <em>gifted</em> (I've never been comfortable with that label) son finally learning to swing and ride bike and swim at around seven years old. Any of you have gifted kids who had troubles/delay in potty training?</p>
<p>You know, a lot of people have been saying this forum is anonymous. It may very well be unsigned and semi-anonymous, but it's far from completely anonymous. I know who several people are "in real life" and others would be quite easy to find out. My daughter recently met Emeraldkity's daughter (she called to ask if she should admit to being another CC daughter). I know I'm very careful not to say anything that would offend my children (I hesitated before mentioning their difficulties with bike riding), since they check my posts occasionally.</p>
<p>All that to explain why I would never discuss my kids' toilet training on an online forum. But here's what I wish I could say: they learned to use the toilet at 6 months old, just like those kids in the New York Times article a few weeks ago ;-) That's because they are 6th-standard-deviation on bladder control.</p>
<p>dmd:</p>
<p>LOL! I have the same feeling about my kids! As for their sleeping through the night, don't get me started...</p>
<p>Of course I was asking that potty question in just a general sense :) . Perhaps someone has heard of someone else's gifted children being delayed in some way . . . My official online story is (in case any kiddos are checking) of course my own children were right on schedule in that area . . .</p>
<p>As I indicated my little one (baby back seat navigator) is spatially very gifted and kinesthetically very gifted, but he's poor in computation & math facts. And he did not sleep through the night until 3 1/2! :eek:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Perhaps someone has heard of someone else's gifted children being delayed in some way . . .
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The classic example would be Einstein.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think the literature shows that moderately gifted kids (those 2 standard deviations above the norm -- I.Q. of 130 or so) are happiest and adapt well to school. My guess is that these are the bright, academically successful kids that most of us have, or else we probably would never have discovered CC! </p>
<p>The exceptionally gifted (3 sd above the norm -- I.Q. 145+) seem to have a more difficult time, especially if it's a question of global giftedness, rather than a high level of ability in a specific, rule-oriented subject like math. Profoundly gifted (s.d. 4+, I.Q. 160-180+) are as far removed from "normal" gifted kids as gifted kids are from average kids --what a difficult life those kids/parents have.
[/quote]
I think this is a really good point. And I have really wondered with my son how to deal with "giftedness" and have made certain choices that I still don't know how they will work out. </p>
<p>I am almost certain that if I tested my son for IQ he would test just about as I did when my mom had me tested, IQ over 150 but not up in the profoundly gifted stratosphere. He doesn't have that one off-the-charts skill characteristic of the profoundly mathematically gifted, the skill that draws that kid to skip grades and take extra classes. And, he also has social and athletic skills that make it more fun for him to do things other than exclusively follow his cerebral interests. He doesn't suffer in school. </p>
<p>I have really debated over time whether I should have gone the route of "giftedness", CTY, etc. But in the end we chose to let him take the BWRK approach, and keep his quirky brain largely to himself. His grades are as high as they could be, his teachers appreciate his intelligence, so do the other kids it seems. But he loves to play soccer, and to moon over girls, to play Worlds of Warcraft and hang out with guys and make smart-ass comments. So there are tradeoffs. </p>
<p>I've gone from a son who spoke at 7 months and sang at 1 year and wrote his name at 2 and taught himself to swim at 2 and did advanced origami at 5 and whose 2nd grade teacher said he was the most all-around talented kid she'd ever had in 30 years of teaching and a piano teacher who said at 8 he was the most musically gifted kid she'd ever had in 30 years of teaching to a son who gets straight A's and plays JV soccer and plays saxophone badly in the band. But he's happy. </p>
<p>I boast about him here because it's anonymous enough. And because since he has taken this route I don't get the mom-of-a-gifted kid ego boost I used to get. Yes, I completely admit it was really fun to freak people out with his skills. I'm sorry, I'm really not that awful in person because I control these feelings but I sure had them. I think it was partly because I felt like if everyone knew how smart he was it would confirm that I was smart. Now why did I need that confirmed? Another story, one for Sinner's Alley on a dark night.</p>
<p>My daughter recently met Emeraldkity's daughter (she called to ask if she should admit to being another CC daughter</p>
<p>oh oh I knew I should have scrolled up
I don't think my D knows that I post so much- I never talk about it with her- she would think I was crazy- I suppose I should be more circumspect, but I just rattle on and on ;)</p>