<p>Hi - our S is a HS Jr and doing well. He has a list of schools that look good for him on paper (academics/majors, etc), but it's much harder to narrow them down in terms of social life, student body, etc. He is not interested in schools with heavy party/fraternity/drinking reputations, but he'd still like a traditional feel and some school spirit. There are some NE LACs that sound wonderful, except we wonder about the small student populations. We've just seen a few schools to date (he loved Tufts), and hope to see Amherst (small but lots of local opportunity) and Brown this spring. Finding safety schools will be a whole 'nother story...
I guess I'm looking for opinions from parents (and students!) regarding how they made their choices and how they worked out. Also, we'd love to hear from people who chose those small LACs. The academics sound wonderful, but do they feel too small after 3 or 4 years?
Any advice will be much appreciated!</p>
<p>D is a freshman at Amherst, and her road to the school was a bit unusual. We did the college tour the summer after junior year, and Amherst wasn't even a thought. She decided on her first choice EA, was rejected, then decided on second choice. Applied RD. As January 1st drew near, she was going through the Princeton Review again, and Amherst sounded kind of interesting, but she didn't feel like writing another essay. I told her she had nothing better to do, so she sat down, sent in the Common App, and did the essay. Submitted it right at the deadline. Her second choice accepted, but the FA wasn't good. Early Write Amherst with wonderful FA, and an offer of a paid trip to visit, since we hadn't gone there. (She had other acceptances with good FA, and was struggling to make a choice.) As luck would have it, she had a competition the Saturday of the weekend trip, and didn't want to let down her team. But I told her she needed to go - that this was her future. So, she talked to her coach, and he said she could compete in the morning, and leave to catch a plane. Then, he forgot to send in the app for the competition, and she was able to go earlier that day. She went and called the next day, and said, "This is it!" What sold her was the Open Curriculum - the ability to dabble in whatever she thought sounded wonderful to her, and the ability to take classes at other schools via the 5 College Consortium. In fact, she will take a class at Smith next year. She also thought the campus was beautiful, and loved the downtown area. And the trip didn't start out so well. The van didn't pick her up at the airport, stranding her, because her flight was delayed and the driver couldn't find her. So, after phone calls to the Dean, 2 adcoms went out to pick her up. I was worried that this would sour the experience for her, but the way they rushed to help and took care of her made her see that they truly cared. She loved everyone she met, and is very happy there. She is taking advantage of the open curriculum and will take some interesting classes. Already planning study abroad, and has become active in a couple activities. I visited twice already, and I also love it. The profs and administrative office staff are very supportive, accessible and helpful. And the dorms are truly wonderful - the rooms are large and mostly new, having been recently remodelled, and they are remodelling more dorms as we speak. Considering the back door way she got there, I can truly speak to the "your kid will wind up where they belong" mantra. It was a roller coaster ride with many ups and downs, and neither she nor I would change the outcome. Good luck with your search!</p>
<p>Your son sounds like mine. So far we have visited Hamilton, Colgate, Dartmouth, Williams and Haverford. We formed some immediate impressions, how accurate, I am not sure. To that end, I am reading insider guides and talking to parents with kids at these schools as well as the kids themselves. </p>
<p>Realizing that we need to find schools that aren't as difficult to get into we will look at Dickinson (which everyone we talk to loves), Gettysburg (it's nearby) and American. In the end, everyone is different and what will be a fit for one kid won't be for another. Dickinson's home page has a survey that kids can fill out that you might find useful. My son attends a small school (class of 85 kids) so even a school as small as Haverford might not seem so small, at least initially. How important is it that your kid know his/her teachers, be in small classes, be near or in a city? </p>
<p>As I have told my kids for many years, it's not so important where you go, it's what you do when you are there that matters. There are many, many places where our kids can get a great education, but that will happen only if they make the effort. </p>
<p>BTW, I went to the University of Vermont (UVM), which was a terrific school. It's a small university, in a great town in a lovely setting. </p>
<p>Good luck and be sure to share any insights you get along the way.</p>
<p>Hmm, we visited all those schools, Marylandmother. Plus Amherst, Middlebury, Lafayette, and F&M. Daughter ended up at Williams, which has been Nirvana for her, but my honest feeling is that she would have done just fine at any of them. It hasn't been too small for her, at all, but she also attended a small school, with a class of about 90. I'm constantly running into people with kids at Williams, and when I ask her "do you know so-and-so" she almost always says no! The physical aspect of the place appeals to her as much as the academics and the great students. They're in the Winter Study term right now, so she's already skiied twice this week.</p>
<p>lspf72, Like Drivers daughter my son is a junior at Williams. He looked at the three schools you mention and was very interested in Brown, loved the town of Amherst but felt the school lacked strength in his particular area of interest (art) and didnt connect with Tufts. He visited 14 schools, mostly in the Northeast and eastern Midwest. Ultimately his short list included two ivies and 6 LACs. Aside from the recommended range of selectivity, his final 8 were quite different from each other in environment and ambience urban, rural, small town, very liberal to less so, lots of socializing to lots of studying, lots of sports and physically active kids to the more introverted types. </p>
<p>He was also concerned about going too small, too isolated, too cold (we live in the tropics) but after two and a half years, hes not experienced a trace of cabin fever. In fact, I think the prospect of leaving Williamstown is what weighs most heavily on his mind just now. </p>
<p>Academically, rather than running out of courses of interest, he could fill up another four years of class schedules. He has managed to escape to New York once or twice a term, either on his own or as part of a school organized event. Hes always happy to return to sleepy, sparkling Williamstown. </p>
<p>For my son, the strength and appeal of the small LAC havent diminished over time; theyve become more intense. The feeling of community among the kids, the close relationships with professors (I cant stress this enough now that recommendations for internships and graduate programs loom large), the warmth of familiarity -- these only get better and stronger with every year. </p>
<p>There are also the elements that are special to Williams which, for my son was the absolutely right choice. Without knowing anything about your son, I would hesitate to recommend, but I can say that the stereotypes of any LAC which, while valid to a point, are really more personality indicators than all-pervasive atmospheric absolutes. He should continue to visit and draw his own conclusions. </p>
<p>How did my son know Williams was for him? I guess it was a combination of luck, research and intuition. He was knocked out by the profound natural beauty and gratified by the strength of the arts program. He liked the confidence and easy grace of the kids he met. He could immediately visualize himself settling into the dorms common room, hanging out with the kids. The academics made his brain sizzle.</p>
<p>Oddly enough, before visiting, Williams was barely on his list, due primarily to hearsay and those negative stereotypes mentioned above. But setting foot on campus in the midst of a furious thunderstorm no less sealed the deal. Sometimes things do just click. </p>
<p>Hes made enduring friendships with kids from a wide variety of backgrounds. Forged close relationships with professors and professionals in his area of interest. Learned to love winter, the mountains, New England village life. Absorbed more academically than he than his 20 year old mind can appreciate. Participated in a handful of extracurriculars that round out and enhance who he is and who he will become.</p>
<p>A word about safeties. What were safeties for kids who aimed toward AWS/HYPSM three years ago may have now moved up the selectivity ranks to matches, so I wont recommend any particular names. However, Id like to reassure you that they do exist. Even though they take a lot more time and energy to research, identify and visit than the super-selective, easy to love school, the effort is well worth it. As a rule of thumb Id say your son should be devoting 2 to 3 times as much time and energy on his safeties than on his first choices as there is a much higher fall out rate. Its a trial and error process, but visiting, interviewing, talking to students and faculty at less-selectives makes them far more appealing than they may seem from afar.</p>
<p>lspf-
Welcome to cc.
Any reason you are looking only in the NE? I am sorry for telling this story over and over, but as you are new, I'll repeat it. My s. looked at many of the schools you mentioned- loved Williams; liked Amherst, Tufts & Brown a lot; didn't like Dartmouth, MIT, Harvard or Columbia. Fell in love with, and absolutely adores Rice, in Houston. Who woulda thunk it??</p>
<p>Williams and Amherst, despite his initial thrill, fell off the radar screen whe he decided he wanted to have engineering available to him. Good thing in the long run, as that is what he is majoring in.</p>
<p>Wow - Just checked in -- Thanks everybody. I will definitely have S read your comments as well. I think we are ready to expand our horizons a bit. We just have to get in the car (or plane? He hasn't yet ruled out traveling a bit) and get going. Am hoping some will continue to "click," as I think their first impressions are very important. Then hopefully next year as a senior he can do some of the longer or overnight visits on his own. You've been very helpful!
--LP</p>
<p>lspf72, welcome to CC.</p>
<p>My D is at a small LAC and is very happy. I agree with driver, it will take her quite a while before she churns through all the people there.</p>
<p>My D was also concerned about having non-alcohol social options. She was not a drinker in HS at all. In college, she has become an occasional drinker but still enjoys sober fun and also having no pressure.</p>
<p>Of course, all colleges have drinking. In my D's case, the lack of pressure to drink and the availability of plenty of other options were key factors. She also liked places with friendly, nice kids. This was fairly consistent with her HS crowd-- some drank, some did not, all were very nice, warm kids who supported one another.</p>
<p>Here are some other schools that were not named above that offer this atmosphere:</p>
<p>Haverford, Vassar, Skidmore, Connecticut College, Grinnell, Wesleyan, Kenyon, Bates, Carleton, & Trinity. (Smith for women.) </p>
<p>Also though more isolated than my D wanted, Bowdoin & Colby are very nice NE LACs. In West: Oxy, Pitzer, Lewis & Clark, Whitman would be good to investigate.</p>
<p>Slightly less selective LACS with the vibe: Lawrence, Beloit, Allegheny, Hobart/William Smith, Goucher, St Lawrence</p>
<p>When visiting, pay attention to the feeling on campus... is it friendly, accepting, warm? Are people smiling and holding doors open, saying hello? Zillions of posters about plays, lectures, events? </p>
<p>The campus culture really comes across on the visits. BTW, the further away YOU are, the more your kid will get an accurate vibe. When we did our big trip, she stayed on campus and I stayed in hotels. Then we'd debrief in the am.</p>
<p>Have fun & good luck to your S in the process!</p>
<p>As you said your son loves Tufts, you may want to check out other small/mid size universities in the NE. University of Rochester and Brandeis come to mind. Brown also falls into that category. I think so much of the info re: LAC's has been covered above that there is not much for me to add. But if your son, feels he wants a bit larger environment, just wanted to add a few "Tuft like" schools to your list.</p>
<p>If, after three semesters, you LAC is feeling too small, a great way to expand your horizons is to do a year or semester abroad.</p>
<p>Another one to consider, if you like the "Tufts feel", of a small LAC just outside a big city, is Lake Forest, outside Chicago. Not quite as competitive as many of the other schools mentioned here, so might be more of a safety for you.</p>
<p>DD also chose Rice and loves it. (And I am not trying to make this a shameless plug for Rice......) Something to think about in choosing a college is the connection between the college and the community (town/gown relations) and the issue of location (rural/suburban/city). At a place like Rice which has about 2800 undergrads, the smallness (and possible closed-in feeling) that might develop with a community that size is s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d by it being in a big city. Students can leave the green protection of campus to do internships with numerous organizations and businesses - kind of a reminder that the real world is out there, and a chance to get a little practical experience. In terms of town/gown relations, the university has a whole department that works on finding ways to link students to the community through different work/internship/volunteer opportunities. And a big city has recreational, ethnic food, artistic options galore. DD has a friend at a wonderful rural LAC who at times feels boxed in by the location, and feels the school getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time goes on. Except for study abroad or on-campus research and work, there are no other options to connect with outside organizations. I think the town/gown relations are good - but there ain't much of a town. It might be cozy to go to the local cafe, (or drive to the Walmart!), but after awhile one gets a hankering for ethnic food, and for OPTIONS. Even with a vibrant campus life, it can feel limited.<br>
I think universities/colleges that provide a good deal of individual attention, and that have many options for experiences outside the campus might be the best of both worlds for many students. Wash U, Emory, Rice, Occidental.... I'm sure there are quite a few schools that fit the bill, but I'm not knowledgable enough to list them all. (Probably Carolyn could?)</p>
<p>Welcome Lspf, my daughter also made the LAC circuit. She began her college search in fall of junior, after having never expressed any interest in college at all, by saying "I want to go at least 1000 miles from home, and you know, Yale looks nice" NICE!! Yikes :eek:!</p>
<p>We took her to see a small college and a mid-sized univeristy - Duke - and while she told her Dad that Duke was OK, halfway through the LAC tour the next day, she turned to me and said - this is it, this is what I want. Her ideas of what she wanted slowly changed as she visited more schools, and began aware that none of them were going to have every last criteria on her list. After visiting most of the schools listed in the above posts, she is a happy freshman at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>My words of wisdom are 1) Be a sounding board throughout the process, echo back what they have said about their priorities in a school, so that he while reconsider and reorder them as things change. DD was adamant about no frats, but she ended up at Dartmouth, they will make compromises after visiting. 2) There will be one school that seems perfect online or on paper, but the visit will not click, and they will hate the place - typically it will be the most expensive or most out of the way school to visit. DD's was Williams, her Dad and I thought it was great, had everything she was looking for, etc, her visit was just a big turn-off?! It just seems to happen that way. 3) There are tremendous opportunities to be had outside your native region. I am a firm believer in a geographic boost. It may not work as well for someone from a populous state like New York or New Jersey, but it doesn't hurt to try, because most kids, no matter where they are from, will only be looking at schools within 3 hours of home - looking out of area is a great way to find "safeties" that are as selective as some matches.</p>
<p>Good luck, it is a wild ride, and you lose them at the end, oh well, if they are happy, you are happy too.</p>
<p>Oh and the size issue - that is something to discuss with him. I think kids who feeled boxed in during freshman year, probably did not make the right choice to start with. Beyond that, the other issues (rural vs urban, majors, etc) have been well discussed - you should raise those scenarios with him as you are looking at schools. the situation I think you want to avoid is realizing about halfway through sophomore year that the school is too small, or that you aren't going to be able to take that class you really wanted because it is only taught every other year, and you've missed it (That's a big one that hasn't been mentioned - how often are higher level classes taught, how often are they oversubscribed, what is done about it - one of the downsides of small classes, particularly if there are "overly popular majors", this seems to be a bit of a problem at Dart, and DD is not looking at an overly popular major)</p>
<p>Thanks, all. I think we will broaden our thinking a bit, in terms of distance and also school size. Williams is on his visit list (it was iffy at first because of the 'isolation' aspect), as is Wm and Mary, although the latter is well beyond our original self-induced 5-6-hour drive "limit." I'm trying not to let my fear of flying interfere with where he might decide to spend four very important years (thanks, Rice parents!)....</p>
<p>My daughter's experience was similar to cangel's daughter. She is a serious student who really wanted a LAC initially. She expected to love Williams but felt it was too small and isolated when she visited. She settled on Amherst for a few months, thinking she had found the perfect school. The last school she visited was Brown and she slowly came to realize the LACs might feel too small for her after a few years. So Brown was her choice until she applied ED and was deferred. Along the way she visited Dartmouth and Middlebury and liked them both. She began to seriously consider Dartmouth after receiving a likely letter in mid-February and she never looked back. She just completed her first term there and feels she found the perfect school. The students at Dartmouth are bright, casual, outdoorsy, and super friendly. The professors are approachable and good teachers. She only occasionally attends parties but has made many friends and finds plenty to do, including a weekend trip to Montreal with her dorm. She immediately joined the orchestra (violin) and became an "Arts" writer for the school newspaper. There is a ton of tradition and school spirit and the resources are unbelievable. She had a wonderful time at homecoming in the fall and is looking forward to winter carnival next month. Wednesday and today she went sledding. Next week, she begins cross country skiing for gym class. I am including all this detail because I think sometimes the fraternities and drinking get emphasized for Dartmouth when there are so many other options. As a parent, I wanted her to be happy and have a balanced education after all her hard work in high school -- and she truly is!!!</p>
<p>Thanks, Parel -- that's nice to hear. It's sometimes easy to let one aspect of a school take it off our mental list, especially when there is just so much information (about so many schools!) to go through. It's also much to your daughter's credit that she has taken the initiative and gotten involved in those other activities. So much depends on how each individual handles it, especially that first year away from home.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>It's sometimes easy to let one aspect of a school take it off our mental list, especially when there is just so much information (about so many schools!) to go through<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Definitely, Lspf, that's why I think it is good if the parents can act as a non-judgmental sounding board for their kids - likes and dislikes are going to change in importance, as they look at more schools, and think about what they want. Just being there to say "you said you wanted X,Y and Z, how does Amherst fit into that?" is important. They will gradually come to realize what their absolutes are, which is when you may need help them get some schools back onto their mental lists, that have fallen off earlier. It is an amazing growing process for them.</p>
<p>When we started our family's college search process, I assumed my son would want an LAC, as he had positive experiences at some very small independent schools in elementary and middle school. However, his four years at a public high school evidently convinced him that it was more important to have a huge variety of opportunities in the academic and performing arts areas of importance to him, so there were only 2 colleges of the 12 he applied to that were LACs, and those were safeties that were likely to offer significant merit aid.</p>
<p>He ended up at a medium size university with a very strong residential college system, and feels that he is experiencing the ideal balance of work/life/opportunities.</p>
<p>Based on my stepdaughter's experience at Williams and my son's experience in his residential college, I would say that close relationships to professors, small classes, and individual attention are highly desirable. Most intelligent students can succeed anywhere, even at a huge university where "you're on your own" is the guiding principle, but there is no denying the motivating boost that a student can receive from personalized attention, and therefore, I would submit, the more the better.</p>