<p>My daughter just got into UCLA's Art school (Fine Arts), and is now trying to decide among UCLA, Michigan, Wash U, and Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts (their BFA program that is offered in combination with Penn). Does anyone have any thoughts/advice among those choices? Thanks!</p>
<p>And is UCLA’s fine arts program not a BFA/conservatory-style program?</p>
<p>Congrats on the impressive acceptances!</p>
<p>My D is a freshman at Wash U/Sam Fox, so I can tell you a bit about it. The school has a total population of 7000-ish undergrads, but the art school has only 300 students. D and I both view this as a plus. Her art classes are small, and the teachers are talented and attentive. There are very few gen ed requirements, which D views as a plus and I view as a slight minus. (I wish she had to take some English courses beyond freshman comp!) That being said, she could certainly take courses in other disciplines that interest her. The academics are excellent and there are many options to choose from. Should she decide that art isn’t for her, it’s easy to switch to another program - Arts and Sciences, e.g. No need to reapply. </p>
<p>In addition, the campus is beautiful, the students are welcoming, the dorms are cushy, and the food is really good. Best would be for your daughter to go to accepted students weekend and see for herself. Wash U pays for the plane tix - at least they did last year - and houses prospects with current students for the event. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info! I’m a neophyte, so I’m not sure how to do a PM. We have signed up for her to come for the accepted students weekend on April 7-9. I think the few Gen Ed requirements will be an attraction to my daughter, too, since I think she’d like to squeeze in a Theatre minor in addition to the BFA in Art. How is your daughter liking St. Louis?</p>
<p>One visit to the City Museum in St. Louis and your D will pick Wash U hands down!!</p>
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<p>D1 was a TA in the sam fox school and a masters grad there. She found the city to be welcoming and the students pleasant. That said I would look at UCLA and Penn also.</p>
<p>pmdecm, oops, you and I can’t pm - we need 15 posts before we can do that. (I thought I had 'em which is why I volunteered!) D likes St. Louis, but we’re from NYC so it seems on the quiet side to her. She does find midwesterners to be very friendly!</p>
<p>There’s a nice area near campus called the Delmar Loop where there are shops and restaurants. Students often find their way there on weekend nights. There are various social activities on campus as well, but students do spend a LOT of time studying (YMMV). </p>
<p>It’s great that your daughter will attend the accepted student weekend - I’m sure it will help her figure out if Wash U is the place for her.</p>
<p>Is there a particular area of fine arts? Has she met faculty she wants to work with? (Has she at least looked at them on-line?) I’d have her use almost all the available time at admitted student days to meet the faculty she wants to work with. It isn’t about the school: it is about mentors.</p>
<p>$240k is a lot of money to find out that one doesn’t like the available mentors. Everything else is secondary.</p>
<p>Hi pmdecm,</p>
<p>Hey! Very nice options for your daughter!</p>
<p>I have 2 daughters, the oldest is in her 3rd year at UCLA-Arts and my youngest was just accepted to UCLA-Arts last Friday. I have been looking at university art programs for about 6 years now in an effort to help my girls with the application process. So I can offer thoughts on UCLA and maybe a little more but first let me ask a couple of questions.</p>
<p>1.) Are you in-state for either UCLA or UMichigan?
2.) What are your daughter’s goals for undergrad art? Does she want to pursue an MFA? Art history masters?
3.) Does she want to study other academic subjects (Dual major, minor, etc.)?
4.) Is your daughter an all-around artist or does she excel in one particular aspect?</p>
<p>Best Regards,
Wheaty</p>
<p>PAFA (or, as its current typography consistently has it, PafA, but that is absolutely as edgy as it ever gets) is an interesting institution. It seems resolutely non-hip. Which is sort of stunning for an art school. I have the impression that its educational program is very, very conservative and traditional: Lots of painting and printmaking, lots of chipping stone, sanding wood, and casting this or that. Lots of representational art. Video? What’s that? At the same time, most art schools survive by training young artists to do the sort of commercial work that young artists actually do in the world, and I am not certain PafA does anything that crass. </p>
<p>The program with Penn is certainly interesting, though (and the degree is awarded by the University of Pennsylvania). And the school itself is magnificent. Its Frank Furness historical building is one of my favorites anywhere, and the functioning classroom building next door is a functioning classroom building. They are both smack in the middle of Center City Philadelphia, walking distance from the (new) Barnes and from a bunch of old industrial buildings where working artists have studios, and a dollar bus ride from the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Right on top of the city’s public transportation hub. A great location.</p>
<p>But mini’s advice is really good: Make certain that there are people teaching what you want to learn, and that you want to learn it from them.</p>
<p>All, thanks for all of your responses, and sorry for our delayed response – we’re actually out in LA for spring break, visiting UCLA. (I went there for law school a zillion years ago, but I had forgotten how incredibly beautiful the campus is!) Here are answers to some of your follow-up questions: (1) she currently is most focused on painting and drawing, as that’s what her magnet program in high school specializes in, but she’s open to (and interested in) dabbling and trying out other art forms (one of her concerns about PafA is that she would be limited to just four forms); (2) she hasn’t met faculty at any but Michigan so far; she’ll meet some at PafA and Wash U in the next few days, but our only chance to visit UCLA is this week and they’re all on spring break, so we’re really info starved for advice/input/reactions from current students about their accessibility, mentoring, quality, and general nice-ness!); (3) we live in Maryland, so are not in-state at Michigan or UCLA (so roughly the same cost between those two; Wash U a bit more, and PafA/Penn a bit less due to a $9000/year scholarship there); (4) her long-term goals are unclear; maybe be a working artists, maybe get an MFA, maybe teach, maybe something else - so a program that gives her an ability to keep options open is somewhat preferable; (5) she definitely wants to study other topics - would love to major (or at least minor) in Theatre in addition to art (Wash U seems to offer the possibility of a double major with Art and Theatre; the other three appear to offer the possibility of a minor in Theatre), and she is a solid student in many subjects and has interest in other areas - hence the desire for a liberal arts program; (6) similar to the above question, she is currently strongest in painting and drawing, but wants the opportunity to sample other forms (and even with drawing and painting, she has found ways to create mixed media works). She knows that the PafA/Penn program is more focused on technique and is “old-school” - anti-hip, as JHS notes - and is to some degree attracted to that aspect of it. But she’s also very attracted to the Interarts program at Michigan, especially given the ability to use her Theatre skills and interests, even though it’s very avant-garde (a huge contrast with PafA). Would love anyone’s additional thoughts, especially Wheaty’s first daughter’s impressions in her first three years at UCLA. Thanks!!!</p>
<p>UCLA’s faculty is full of some of the biggest names in contemporary art, and I know many top-notch galleries, museums and collectors keep a close eye on the students there, looking for potential stars.</p>
<p>pmdecm,</p>
<p>Ah it’s too bad that you’re touring UCLA this week, it’s Spring Break and everything is closed up tight.</p>
<p>Addressing some of your questions:
1.) UCLA Arts offers a BA degree, not a BFA. Students take roughly 50/50 arts / GE classes and students have wide latitude to complete the different GE categories. So a class like African Art History might tick off two GE requirements (history, diversity). My daughter found that about half of her GE’s were art or art history related so for her it will end up being about 75% art/art history and 25% regular GE classes.</p>
<p>2.) Fine Art majors are required to complete at least one class in 4 different mediums within the art department. My D came in primarily as a photographer and she has loved her classes in ceramics, painting, new genres, drawing etc. UCLA’s philosophy is that all art forms help you improve your skills in a chosen area. Improve your painting and you understand photography a little better. They have also found that 17-18 year old kids sometimes haven’t found their true calling and they often switch mediums while in college.</p>
<p>3.) Freshman year is the toughest. There is a foundation year of Modernism that most kids report as being intense.</p>
<p>As several posters have already noted, one of the main points of art school is to benefit from great instructors and UCLA shines in this regards. If you walk through this list ([UCLA</a> Department of Art | Faculty](<a href=“http://www.art.ucla.edu/faculty/index.html]UCLA”>Faculty : UCLA Department of Art)) you will find some of the very top contemporary artists in America. Don’t believe me? Just Google Mary Kelly, Cathy Opie, Barbara Kruger, Hirsch Perlman, James Welling, etc. You’ll find that the whole department is stocked with stars. As an added bonus they even throw in Don Suggs who is consistently ranked as the best instructor at UCLA (all departments!) on Bruinwalk.com. Don could teach a rock how to draw well and the incredulous rock would love him for it.</p>
<p>More importantly, these famous artists are all good to great instructors and the proof of that is the work produced by these young artists. It’s some of the best anywhere and as mentioned, it’s very common for gallery owners, collectors and museum staff to be ■■■■■■■■at student shows.</p>
<p>One unexpected bonus for my daughter has been the high degree of grad professor involvement in her undergrad classes. About 2/3 of her studio classes have been taught by the above list of grad professors and it’s made a big difference in her art. She’s become art buddies with some of them (mentee/mentor) and that will matter for her advancement past her Art BA.</p>
<p>I have a biased opinion but I think UCLA has the top university-based undergraduate art program in the world right now. Some claim that Yale still holds that honor but try getting a grad professor to teach an undergrad class there. Doesn’t happen.</p>
<p>Of course all this happens within the confines of UCLA and so the non-art classes are equally impressive and interesting. The campus is like a postcard, the food is excellent, join a sorority or one of 500 clubs, and you can cheer for sports teams.</p>
<p>UCLA-Art is one of the most selective programs of it’s kind and our kids are fortunate to have gotten in. This year’s numbers aren’t out yet but they probably got 1,200-1,300 applications for Fine Art but only seats for 45 Freshmen.</p>
<p>Lastly, it’s important to note that Los Angeles is probably the hottest art city in the world right now. L.A. is home to an incredible array of important contemporary artists. The top L.A. art schools (UCLA, USC, Art Center, CalArts, etc.), the great museums (Getty, LACMA, MOCA, UCLA-Hammer), and these top local artists are all interwoven in a cool art network. UCLA sits in the middle of all of that.</p>
<p>Haha, so there ya go, rantings from a biased UCLA Dad! </p>
<p>Best Regards,
Wheaty</p>
<p>Would you be willing to private mail me so I (and my daughter and wife) can ask a few more questions? She’s really struggling with her decision, and your posting (which goes to the very heart of assuaging the few doubts that we had with UCLA) is making it even harder, since she had been leaning towards Michigan. Is your second daughter planning on attending UCLA? And where else did both daughters consider before opting for UCLA? Thanks so much for all of your advice; it’s all the more helpful since we’re not going to get to meet any of the professors (and the admissions person said that they are not email-friendly).</p>
<p>I have heard many good things about UCLA.</p>