First-Time Parent Poster: What Colleges Should My Son Consider...

Parents Forum
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<p>I thought of Macalester (and perhaps Carleton) too. I wonder if Brandeis might be interesting to him? I believe it has a diverse crew of international students. It’s got a lot of plusses as a university, but it is a <em>small</em> university, at total @5000 students (3500 UG?). And therefore, it has some of the benefits of a small LAC too. Plenty of strong humanities/social sciences, AND good hard sciences. They have been moving towards need-based aid, and I don’t know if much or anything is available as merit aid.</p>

<p>PS - UCLA and UCB are great, of course, but CA is having big-time financial problems, and one effect of this on university students is getting through their majors in four years - it is becoming very hard to do, for some majors. So it might be good to research this issue before deciding. </p>

<p>And some people “save” UCLA/UCB for grad school, when they can really take advantage of some of the special resources offered there.</p>

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<p>Momrath and everyone, thanks so much for your input. I need to sit down and figure out the financial part of the puzzle soon. </p>

<p>Also, I have to say I’m a bit concerned about his stats if USC is considered a reach! Growing up in LA, I never gave it serious thought as an academic institution but I know it’s gotten competitive over the years. Fiske has the acceptance rate at 25%, which I was considering as target, not reach. Have I overestimated his chances? </p>

<p>I’m looking at USC stats and not quite sure why it’d be a reach since my son’s CR was over 70 and Math close to 70. It seems like he’d be an average fit there?</p>

<p>Well now I’m slightly starting to panic that getting into a good school is daunting for us. </p>

<p>He does have great ECs – last summer volunteer-taught English to a rural school in Cambodia, and he regularly writes for a teen magazine here. I should also mention his HS is hardcore college prep, and his course load this year and next is considered almost too rigorous by his GC. Anyway, I’m just doing some “thinking aloud” here. I guess his gpa may be the real detractor?</p>

<p>Thanks for listening to my rambling! :)</p>

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<p>momofhawk quote:</p>

<h1>He is interested in psychology, law, writing, and international studies, probably doubling with Spanish. Oh God, we’re hoping for merid aid for sure (and I know those are tough to come by).</h1>

<p>Well, if you need a good amount of merit aid, then your list of schools won’t work. UCLA and Cal are not known to give much merit (if any)…except maybe a tiny number of students with really super stats (like perfect/near perfect SATs). And, need-based aid to OOS students at a UC isn’t good either.</p>

<p>Publics charge high OOS rates for a reason…they want the money. </p>

<p>And some other schools that have been mentioned don’t ever give any merit.</p>

<p>A common issue with seeking merit scholarships is that the top schools won’t be the source since ALL/MOST of the students are top students, so EVERYONE would qualify for merit…so no one gets merit. </p>

<p>There are some private and public schools that give merit for high stats, but they tend to mid-tier schools and lower.</p>

<p>** For this thread to make any sense at all (and not just be listing unaffordable schools), we need to know what your situation is. **</p>

<p>How much can YOU pay each year? </p>

<p>There are some schools that give need-based aid, but those schools may determine that you can pay more than you feel you can pay. These schools look at all sources of income…property, assets, savings, investments. And, if there is a non-custodial parent, that income is often looked at as well.</p>

<p>** The amount that you can pay each year, and your child’s stats, will largely determine where he should apply. **</p>

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<p>lso, I have to say I’m a bit concerned about his stats if USC is considered a reach! Growing up in LA, I never gave it serious thought as an academic institution but I know it’s gotten competitive over the years. Fiske has the acceptance rate at 25%, which I was considering as target, not reach. Have I overestimated his chances? </p>

<p>=========</p>

<p>If your son’s M+CR ends up around a 1400, then USC will be a reach. USC has been rejecting 1400 SATs…and even if accepted, that is not high enough for merit scholarships. USC is very test score focused.</p>

<p>You can’t just look at the middle quartiles to determine reach or match. Privates have a lot of other things going on when they’re determining admittance. Is your son a URM (under-represented minority…like Black or Hispanic)? If so, then his chances may be bettter.</p>

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<p>Point taken. I will work in some calculations. Where I stand right now: can pay 25K upfront each year, but was hoping that the rest would be less loans and more merit. </p>

<p>I’ll return with a clearer picture. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I don’t mean to be a buzz-kill, but a weighted gpa of 3.8 and 1400 M-W scores makes Pomona a real reach–it’s one of the most selective schools in the country.</p>

<p>If you’re looking at Carleton (which I’m very high on), take a look at Whitman in eastern Washington as well. Many students apply to both. If your S can get a bit above 1400 on his MW SAT’s, he’ll have a solid shot at some merit money, as well. I made the study of LACs nationwide something of an obsession over the last year, and Whitman emerged as one of my very favorites, and perhaps my absolute favorite for a kid who might not quite have the stats to get into the very most selective tier (and which does offer some merit aid). Fabulous teaching, the students seem to absolutely love it there–they just seem to be doing everything right. Not at all urban, but with a cute little town nearby. Check it out.</p>

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<p>There’s a ton of schools in and around Boston - that’s a great city.</p>

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<p>I’d add Kenyon and Oberlin (in Ohio) and perhaps Lewis and Clark (in Portland), particularly if family are in Asia( because it will be easier to get to)</p>

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<p>You might take a peek at Seattle University - your son would fit nicely into their score ranges and they do offer some fairly generous merit scholarships. Other perks, hip/urban, law school, asian connection, well regarded, generally, international studies major, access to Jackson School at U of W if he does decide to go the international route, holistic admissions process.</p>

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<p>Momofhawk, start by using the FAFSA EFC calculator to figure out if your S is likely to be eligible for any need based aid. Note that many of the schools you have listed are private, and thus will also take into account the income and assets of a non-custodial parent (and their/your spouse if they exist). That can be a real killer to getting need based aid.</p>

<p>Assuming little or no need based aid, you will probably need to take Reed off your list. They do not offer any merit aid.</p>

<p>I would not do the financial calculation “soon”, I would do it now before you even start his list. You are realistically going to have to look at a different set of schools if you feel you can only cover $25K per year and are not eligible for need based aid. Also, I assume his travel costs will be higher than most students, so something else to take into account. If you have family in CA, it might be good to look on the West Coast; he can spend some holidays with them instead of flying home.</p>

<p>Once you have a realistic picture of what need based aid you can expect, then think about what he is willing to take out in loans. Rule of thumb, he should definitely not take out more in loans than he expect to make in his first year working out of college. Sounds like he is more of a writing/social sciences guy, so that income isn’t likely to be on the higher end.</p>

<p>Also… if he is thinking about graduate school, that is another reason to keep the loans very low if possible.</p>

<p>Once you have that in mind, you know what you can cover out of pocket and via loans. Look for schools either in that price range (unfortunately you have no “in state” options, since you live overseas) OR where his statistics fall above the middle 50% range for the school and they give merit aid. You are probably going to find that Ivies, top universities, and top 25-ish LACs are probably going to be out of reach. But there are some GREAT choices in the next 25-30 LACs.</p>

<p>I will say, my experience is that the rural schools just tend to be a little cheaper than the urban ones (haven’t seen stats on it, just seems that way as we look for our kids). And your kid will spend a LOT less in spending money on a rural campus.</p>

<p>If you don’t have a copy of the Fiske Guide to Colleges book yet (mentioned by mom2collegekids), I would highly recommend it. It gives a great overview of schools with a feeling for the “flavor” as well as statistics. But visits are really important, too, before making a final decision.</p>

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<p>OP, your S may get in to his matches and reaches, but if you NEED merit, it means nothing - might as well be a rejection. Ask me how I know. :slight_smile: You need to start having a nice list of safeties. This will guarantee acceptance and merit.</p>

<p>Many of the top schools don’t give merit - Carleton, Vassar, Wesleyan, Haverford, Swarthmore, Middlebury, Williams, Amherst, Reed etc. Then there are some that give merit, but are stingy - maybe only a handful a year (Skidmore) or only the top 10% of applicants (Dickinson). Brandeis and Franklin and Marshall no longer offer it. Even Macalester and Kenyon, which would be nice options for you, don’t give out much. Grinnell sounds like a perfect match for your S, although they just had a 52% increase in applicants this year. Not sure what that will mean for the future. Oberlin may give merit, if they feel your son will really add to the community. Your S has great ECs and if he can give a good interview and write a great essay, this will surely help! </p>

<p>Check out places like Wooster, Whitman, Kalamazoo, Earlham, Lawrence, Lewis and Clark, Beloit and others in the Colleges That Change Lives (CTCL) list. </p>

<p>Best wishes. Your son sounds like a neat kid!</p>

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<p>For under $25,000 per year at list price, consider:</p>

<p>University of Minnesota - Morris: [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.morris.umn.edu/financialaid/costofattendance/]$22,352[/url”&gt;http://www.morris.umn.edu/financialaid/costofattendance/]$22,352[/url</a>]
Truman State University: [url=&lt;a href=“Financial Aid Office - Truman State University”&gt;Financial Aid Office - Truman State University]$24,263[/url</a>] ($20,263 direct costs + $4,000 misc costs)</p>

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<p>Even though the school is a bit larger than most LAC’s, I would suggets giving Georgetown some consideration based on their language and international programs. They have very little merit but their grant FA is reasonable. Good luck with your college selections!</p>

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<p>Sewanee is very rural, but it is a good LAC where your son would probably qualify for significant merit aid. They have some international students, but are probably looking for diversity. Moreover, Sewanee is trying things like tuition reductions and four year guarantees of no increases to deal with escalating costs. It is a beautiful place, but not a good fit if you need a city.</p>

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<p>momofhawk
New Member
*
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
Point taken. I will work in some calculations. Where I stand right now: can pay 25K upfront each year, but was hoping that the rest would be less loans and more merit. </p>

<h1>I’ll return with a clearer picture. Thanks.</h1>

<p>I’m guessing that your $25k per year contribution would include all costs…including int’l travel back and forth to the country where you live and “personal expenses”. </p>

<p>If so, then your child needs almost a full tuition scholarship so that your $25k can pay for room and board (as much as $15k at some schools!), books (about $1k), various fees ($1k), travel to and from ($2k), and personal expenses (about $3k). To get scholarships of that size, your child’s stats need to be at the tippy top for the school.</p>

<p>Your child is going to need a HUGE scholarship to get that kind of merit. You need to look at schools where his stats will be in the upper 5% of the school (and the school gives big merit). </p>

<p>Schools don’t usually give huge merit to all of those in the upper quartile…usually the big merit only goes to the top 1-2%…maybe the top 5%.</p>

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<p>Most room and board is in the 8-10k range. Maybe there are a few schools out there with 15k, but that is certainly not the norm.</p>

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<p>True…but I didn’t say it was the norm.</p>

<p>That said, some of the schools that the OP is looking at do have that high of R&B</p>

<p>Berkeley:</p>

<p>Room and board: $14,990 </p>

<p>And UCLA’s is similar.</p>

<p>And USCs is $12k</p>

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<p>OP - Has your son taken the SAT yet? He might want to give it a try, then spend the summer working through practice exams to try to improve his score (if needed) to qualify for substantial merit aid. In my experience with two children, PSAT scores are not all that predictive in the 1350 through 1550 range. Many students score lower than predicted but can raise their scores significantly with practice over the summer, or even by testing on a “better” day when they are not fatigued or ill. Others score a good bit higher than predicted, and it can be very nice to be done with standardized testing by summer.</p>

<p>For merit aid, it might not hurt to try some of the honors colleges affiliated with state universities. Some of our very talented children have gotten substantial merit aid from schools such as University of Alabama and Pitt Honors, although for the latter an SAT score closer to (or above) 1500 has become the norm in recent years. Also check out state schools such as Ole Miss for flagship language programs. </p>

<p>As other posters have frequently pointed out, state universitites love their honors students and provide small classes and lots of advising to these students. Flagship language programs in particular provide increased scheduling options, and classes in languages such as Mandarin that go up into more advanced levels, including literary language. (Finding advanced classes in languages such as Mandarin, Japanese, Arabic, etc. can be an issue at some otherwise solid schools.)</p>

<p>It should be easy to find a cohort of very talented peers at theses schools, not different from peers at the most selective liberal arts colleges, given the current state of the economy.</p>

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<p>Reed and Carleton offer little or no merit money (although they do have good need-based aid). Urban/suburban LACs and small universities that do offer merit money include:</p>

<p>Brandeis
Colorado College
Macalester
Rhodes
Rice
University of Richmond
Vanderbilt</p>

<p>Other than Rice and Vanderbilt, these are not as selective as Carleton. However, they are still selective enough that hawk-son probably won’t fall in the top 25% of applicants (maybe at Rhodes). So, merit money (if he gets it at all) may not be enough to narrow the gap between $25K (if that’s what momofhawk can pay) and full cost.</p>

<p>If you don’t qualify for enough need-based aid to narrow that gap, then can you qualify for in-state tuition anywhere? If not, try to find a state university with relatively low out-of-state costs. U. Minnesota (Twin Cities) is under $30K. If you want a smaller state university for under $30K, consider SUNY Geneseo.</p>

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<p>Hi Momofhawk, we are also U.S. citizens living overseas (South America) for the past 6 years. My oldest is a senior, so we have thought about a lot of the issues you mentioned.</p>

<p>We started out looking at LACs (Colleges that Change Lives), but my daughter really wanted a university in an urban area. I have had some concerns about her being “lost” in a bigger environment, but after visiting some big schools I am less concerned. Top on her list was finding schools that seem friendly and where the students are happy. </p>

<p>I think that our kids do stand out from having an international perspective. I would be sure your son highlights his experiences in Argentina as well as Asia. Consider having him take the Spanish SAT Subject Test this spring. Also, with his language skills he should be able to raise his SAT writing score. Go over a practice test with him and review every problem he missed.</p>

<p>My daughter’s top choice right now is USC. It has a large international population and we were very impressed with every student we met. With over 45,000 applicants this year the admissions rate will be even lower. We feel very fortunate that she was invited for a scholarship interview. </p>

<p>One other smaller school we both really liked was Trinity University in San Antonio, TX. They also like international students and seem to offer good merit aid.</p>

<p>Finally, I will second what someone else said about the honors programs in large universities. After visiting two of those programs, I feel like in some ways they offer even more personal attention than a LAC.</p>