<p>nydancemom, thanks. As others have said, I don't think it's fair for schools to inquire where else kids are applying, let alone asking that they rank the schools on their lists! It would be nice if a rep from the schools that do this, would comment here on CC why they do it, and how the information is used in the admissions process.</p>
<p>alwaysamom, I think I know why schools ask this, though I could well be wrong. I think schools are trying to suss out whether a kid is likely to accept an acceptance, and thus, increase the school's yield. If they see a very talented kid whom they want, but that kid is also auditioning for schools at the same or "higher" level (prestige-wise, I guess), the school may be trying to get a hint as to whether that kid (whom they may guess will also be accepted at peer schools, at least) will come if accepted. Does that make sense?</p>
<p>Ithaca's adjudicator asked my D (at the audition) why she didn't list/rank "top" schools in her state (she wanted out of state). :confused:</p>
<p>I asked my D if she was asked to list/rank her schools and none of them asked her to write it down. She auditioned at UArts, CCM & BoCo. She said UArts and BoCo did ask her in the interview and she told them they were both her top schools because they have been her top choices for different reasons...long story. CCM didn't ask but I think they always think are #1. Not trying to be a smart aleck but that's kinda what they tell you.</p>
<p>kimoki - was your d by any chance in the national high school cast of TMM last summer with EDTA?</p>
<p>Ithaca asked students who were auditioning to list and rank their schools on a sheet of paper. In other cases, schools asked where else students were applying during the audition/interview (this seems pretty common). In one case, a school was VERY interested in ONE particular audition at ONE particular school and how that particular audition went.</p>
<p>You know, all this probably doesn't matter in the end, as I am sure the faculty at all the schools are looking for talent and a good match, and go about it in different ways. In their shoes, I believe that if I heard my school was #1 on everyone's list, I'd become VERY suspicious!</p>
<p>At one of my D's auditions, the auditioner was holding my D's sheet (on which she was asked to list other schools to which she was applying/auditioning) and the auditioner said "So, where are WE on this list? Are we anywhere near the top!" It was said, reportedly, in a challenging way, so much so that two student helpers kind of laughed nervously and said "Whoa, blunt!"
Letsfigureitout, I agree that in the end, it all comes out in the proverbial wash. As you say, if every school heard "Oh, yes, you are my #1 choice," they would rightly be suspicious. Maybe kids should look at this question less as an overt challenge and more as an opportunity to talk about what they want in a program. That might work better.</p>
<p>Sualabama my D wasn't and I don't really know what that is???? Sounds interesting!?!</p>
<p>Kimoki - My D has a friend who auditioned only for UArts, CCM and BoCo and has only heard from CCM ...so those similarities made me wonder! EDTA is Educational Theatre Assoc and they, with International Thespians, put together national high school casts of shows that are performed during the summer.</p>
<p>nmr, I think that your theory stated in post #102 is probably very close to the truth. The thing I don't understand is why these schools feel the need to ask. Do they really think that every student is going to be completely honest in their reply? So, what is the point? I also think that it's wrong to ask the question of these kids in the audition room when it's already a stressful situation. I think it's obnoxious, and that auditor who asked "so where are WE on this list?" is the epitome of that.</p>
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It would be nice if a rep from the schools that do this, would comment here on CC why they do it, and how the information is used in the admissions process.
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<p>I answered this question regarding my institution last year and I was jumped on a bit so I am rather hesitant to answer it again, but here goes...</p>
<p>We ask what other schools to which the candidate has applied and we appreciate it a great deal when the student chooses to answer the question. </p>
<p>Whether a student has applied to fourteen schools or two has absolutely NO bearing on whether they are accepted into the MT program or not. The candidates who successfully audition should be able to choose the school they want to attend - our assessment of their potential isn't any different because they might have applied to a bunch of schools.
We use the information to help us with the numbers. If we accept twelve individuals who have all applied to a large number of schools, we know they will get into other programs and may or may not choose to attend. In that instance (and that has been the case the last couple of years) we might choose a longer than usual alternate list or we might decide to admit a few more students that year. In a small program like ours, a class that is 3 or 4 students more or less than the goal size is a big deal because of the faculty/student ratio.</p>
<p>It doesn't negatively impact the student in any way if he or she doesn't answer the question. I will say that in a strange way, I personally like to see a list of schools because it means the student has really looked into the field of study and is more likely to understand the rigors of a challenging BFA or BM program. Students who have an idea what to expect are more likely to handle the stress of the hectic schedule.</p>
<p>I can't address the ranking issue because we don't ask that particular question and it wouldn't really serve our purpose of trying to predict yield.</p>
<p>From Kimoki: "CCM didn't ask but I think they always think are #1"</p>
<p>I think an audition goes both ways - the student selling themselves to a school and the school selling themselves to the student. I think from a psychological standpoint not asking, like CCM, gives an impression of a more desirable and less insecure school. CMU asks where else you are applying but I really doubt that if you say they are your only choice or one of 20 choices that will sway whether they accept you. </p>
<p>Logically the only reason I can think of why schools ask this is to keep abreast of what schools are becoming popular. I think Elon has increased in popularity every year. Indiana has a new BFA program and all the resources for a great BFA program. Maybe this is why they are asking.</p>
<p>Oh my gosh, we thought we got a no from Ithaca because the vocal performance was not as great that day, but NOW WE KNOW!!! We listed and ranked the OTHER schools and did not include Ithaca at all in the list or ranking! Oh to be a fly on the wall at that admissions meeting!</p>
<p>all4fsu, thank you for replying! I hope you don't feel like we're jumping on you in this discussion. :) I do understand that it would be useful to you to know the numbers of other schools to which an auditioning student has applied, and how that might be helpful to you in determining your numbers. I guess there are two issues surrounding this reason. First, as I mentioned before, I'm not sure that you would be getting an accurate account from many, if not most, students, so, it begs the question, why would any school want to rely on that information to assist them in such important decisions? Secondly, if it was only the number of schools which is important, why not just ask how many other schools are on their list, rather than ask for the names? Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts on your school's position on this issue.</p>
<p>Again -- I concur with All4FSU wholeheartedly :) ... I teach in a BA program, and we ask where else a student may be applying to get a sense of the other schools on their list.... if we are the only BA on the list we talk with the student about the fact that they will have to take (or test out of with AP, IB, and/ or dual enrollment) 41 credits of general education, plus up to 14 credits of foreign language (depending on placement scores). If we are the only MT program we ask them why we are the only MT program. What are they looking for in a college program. It is really a way to open up a conversation. </p>
<p>I know that when we ask the question about where else a student may be applying it has to do with getting to know the student and the kind of educational experience for which (s)he may be looking. </p>
<p>In the end, we accept students for which we are the only BA, students for which we are the only MT program, students who are auditioning for only programs similar to ours, and student for which it appears we are the BA "backup". </p>
<p>We are looking for students whom we feel will be a great fit for the school and the program. I believe that most schools are looking for this, as are students. </p>
<p>I remember when I was auditioning for programs I was looking for programs that met my college criteria and program criteria... I could not have ranked programs before the audition.. after visiting and auditioning for programs I had a better sense of where I would be happy. The same thing happened when I was applying to graduate school ten years later. </p>
<p>It is all about "fit". Ultimately, I think this is what most schools are looking for... and why very talented kids may get into one school and not another. I know we want to make sure that the kids who come to JMU will be a good fit and grow through their experiences in our program. BUT programs see more highly qualified students audition than they can except and serve... so, ultimately, highly qualified students who could be successful at a particular school will not be accepted. This is why students should have a broad range of programs, and a a number of schools on a list at which they could be happy.</p>
<p>I remember going through this process and how stressful it was... I wish all of the students and parent going through the process the best :)</p>
<p>My D and I had to fill out a bunch of pre-audition forms that did ask some personal questions and what other schools she was applying too. I think it is great that they want to try and get to know the kid as much as possible with the 10 minutes they spend with them. I do have a problem with any school that would want her to rank them, to that a simple "I don't know" would be acceptable.</p>
<p>KatMT - This is one of the most facinating comments I've read on this board and I'd wish you'd elaborate on the meaning : "BUT programs see more highly qualified students audition than they can except and serve... so, ultimately, highly qualified students who could be successful at a particular school will not be accepted".</p>
<p>So are you saying that if you are interviewing a kid with less talent than say some others that you may accept them because you feel they fit, you like them better, see more potential? How do you figure it out?</p>
<p>MTDAD777 -- no, I think most schools want the kids that seems the most talented to them... but talent is not perceived the same by all... and if a school is accepting 15 - 20 students to yield a desired number in an entering class there are always going to be students who are talented, and ultimately could have been successful at a school who are not accepted to a particular program.</p>
<p>I teach at a smaller program -- and even here there are students who could have probably been successful artistically who we cannot accept (this is as true with non-arts admissions as it is for the arts -- I believe this is probably the case at most schools)... otherwise we would risk more students matriculating than we can realistically accommodate in training and academics. Here at JMU we aim for a class of 8 - 12 in Musical Theatre per year and accept 16 to yield that number. We would rather have 6 students than 20, so we err on the side of lower acceptance. I think that other schools probably employ a similar practice. </p>
<p>Also in terms of admissions across the board -- every student does not audition for all programs... so each school is working with whomever auditions for their program. Some schools get a larger national segment... some are more regional. I know that we saw about 85 prospective freshman for the 16 offers of acceptance to the MT Concentration (about an 18% acceptance rate... other schools may extend more offers ultimately but see more students, leading to a lower acceptance rate)... in the end we have to find a way to differentiate between all the students whom we like... so at JMU - GPA, essay/ interview, type, gender, vocal range, proficiency in particular areas, etc... have to come into play in final decision making. It is difficult! Each school will have different criteria for how they make tough decisions.. but students shouldn't be discouraged from pursuing a career because they are not accepted by all schools to which they apply. </p>
<p>Back in the dark ages I applied to 6 schools for MT and/ or acting.... in the end I was accepted to 4. Could I have been successful at the two schools which did not accept me?... quite possibly... but ultimately the faculty at those schools had to made the decision of whom to accept.... and they didn't choose me. I ended up at the right school for me. I was (of course) very disappointed not to be accepted at the other schools, but ended up at the right school for me </p>
<p>When it came time to apply to graduate school I was not accepted at all programs to which I applied, but found the program that was best for me. Could I have been successful at the schools that rejected me? Quite possibly, but they did not think so... and/ or other graduate school applicants seemed more qualified to them (or served the needs of their programs) at the time, and I will never know.... in the end I ended up at the program that best suited me. The same can be said of my experience with auditioning for jobs as an actor, interviewing for jobs as a director, and applying for college teaching jobs.</p>
<p>I wish all of you the best of luck in this stressful process.</p>
<p>This board is terrific in terms of forging friendships and support networks! :) </p>
<p>All the best!</p>
<p>All4FSU and Kat - Thank you so much for posting. I think it really helps all of us on here to have this insight into the viewpoint of the schools.</p>
<p>KatMt - thanks for answering my question... good stuff. Maybe you can shed some light on some other questions: How do you grade the auditions? Is there a point system? Especially at a school that is looking at 200 or more kids. How can a school who auditions 200-1000 kids possibly pick 10,20 or even 30? If two kids are rated the same talent wise do they take the kid with the highest GPA? Also, how often do you see someone who had a great audition but turn out to be average or below once they are in the program?</p>
<p>MtDad777, I am not an expert, but I did see some of the audition sheets that my own kid filled out at various auditions, and it seems most have a 1-5 point system. My guess is that they score each kid on that gradient for singing, dancing and acting and those with a certain composite then pass into consideration for admission. How they do it from there, well, is probably as much art as science, with evidence being how kids who are totally turned down at one place suddenly get accepted as "first string" at another. Taste/style is also involved: which is why some people have said that certain schools have certain "vibes." Does that make sense?</p>