Five Year Masters

<p>I've been searching this forum and many other places looking for a list of schools with a five year masters in music education program. After many hours of hunting, I have found a few, but I'm wondering if anyone knows if a consolidated list of these schools exists somewhere...</p>

<p>Considering that most masters degrees only take 30-36 credit hours if you already have all the prerequisits, it’s not that difficult to obtain a masters in 3 semesters. Some schools that third semester can be a summer, which essentially gives you a 5 year masters if you completed your undergrad degree in 4 years.</p>

<p>Also, you could do a BA in music, take summer classes the summer before the freshman year and the summer before the sophomore year and finish the BA a year early - no sweat (possibly a BM although the BM would be harder to do i 3 years due to more extensive performance requirments). Then you could obtain a MAT in a year or year and a half, or a MM in Music Ed in two years, and essentially have made a 5 year Bachelor/Masters program.</p>

<p>I know thats not what you were looking for, but it is essentially the same thing. Regardless, I think you are wise for looking for 5 year bachelors/masters programs as opposed to many posters on CC who are looking for a 5 year double major bachelors. </p>

<p>Coastal Carolina (the 4 year university in SC - not the 2 year jr college in NC) has a 5 year BA in music and Masters of Art in Teaching (emphasis in music) program. I don’t think that the degree is bundled exactly like you are looking for (where the bachelors and masters are both awarded at the same time), but they advertise it as a “5 year masters”, and for all practical purposes, it’s the same thing. For someone who is only interested in teaching, it’s probably a good program even though the college is not known for excellence. They are only recently accredited as a music school so they are hungry for good musicians, and for tallented performers they will offer scholarships much larger than they suggest on their website. They do have a marching band, it’s a mid sized college with some of the advantages of a small college and a big college (both at the same time), very nice modern campus, and only 15 minute drive to the beach. Lots of students from the north east attend Coastal.</p>

<p>I don’t know of a list, but NYU Steinhardt has a B M plus MA five-year program:
[BMus</a> / MA Music Education Dual Degree - Programs - Music Education - NYU Steinhardt](<a href=“http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/music/education/programs/dual]BMus”>http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/music/education/programs/dual)</p>

<p>Boston University has a 5 year BM performance and MM music Ed.
[Five-Year</a> BM in Performance/MM in Education Academics | Boston University](<a href=“http://www.bu.edu/academics/cfa/programs/bm-mm/]Five-Year”>4+1 Program: BM in Performance/MM in Education » Academics | Boston University)</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestions – on my list is BU, NYU, Vanderbilt, Ithaca, Oberlin, Manhattanville (actually says ‘accelerated’)
Anyone know of any other schools?</p>

<p>Oberlin is probably the most well-known of these schools for the 5 year program, mainly because of their unique MMT. Another school to look at would be The Boston Conservatory.</p>

<p>We were just at Ithaca last week for an audition. They do have the 5 year BM and Masters in music ed, but they said they cannot remember the last time someone actually got these degrees in this program because they discourage it. (They think you should work in the field before going for the masters.)</p>

<p>UNH (University of New Hampshire) also has a 5 year BM and Master in Music Ed.</p>

<p>My daughter wishes there were more schools in warmer places!</p>

<p>Yup, cold up here. It is finally winter, but it is supposed to be warmer again by the end of the week.</p>

<p>After my visit to Ithaca and listening to them talk about their 5 year program, I would think twice about the 5 year program. It make sense to me that a teacher goes out into the field and teaches and then later goes back for the masters. </p>

<p>My daughter is a music ed major at UNH and is on the 4 year track. She wants a masters degree, but is not thinking about the 5 year program. Right now she is thinking about a masters in Elementary Ed or possibly Special Ed. (Of course that can change.)</p>

<p>We know someone who graduated from UNH’s 5 year music ed program. She was employed her first year after graduation at a couple different schools doing a couple different part-time music teaching jobs, and now (one year after graduating) is teaching full-time at a very good middle school. I like this young lady very much (she did her 5th year internship at my kid’s high school - which has a stellar music program) and she was mentored by one of the best music teachers in the area. So my guess is that ability to get the great teaching position so quickly after graduation, was because of her masters, her skills, as well as where she student taught and who she was mentored by - combined. She did everything right and was still very lucky! </p>

<p>Each state has their own requirements for music teachers. Some states do require masters (if not initially, then eventually). Other states do not require the masters. I have to wonder of a masters degree in music ed would price a perspective teacher out of the market - making that teacher too expensive to hire. It’s probably a good idea to look at the requirements for the state(s) that your daughter wants to teach in and take that into consideration.</p>

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<p>But what else is someone with a masters degree in music ed going to do? It’s not like some top Wall Street firm is going to be offering them a hundred million a year to manage a hedge fund.</p>

<p>People accept the best overall job offered to them, regardless of what the pay is. If the best offer they get is only $35,000, then thats what they are going to work for, if it is $100k or if the best offer they get is minimum wage, then thats what they are going to work for. </p>

<p>It’s not like they would stick up their noses and say “I’m worth more than that because I have a masters degree, so I will just starve to death instead”.</p>

<p>Most school systems are thrilled to hire people with advanced degrees. It looks better on paper when a principal can say “90% of our teachers have advanced degrees and 20% have PhD’s” than to say “most of our teachers are just barely qualified to teach”. </p>

<p>The principle doesn’t get a cut of cost savings, so employee expense is no sweat off his back. And in many states, the state directly or indirectly picks up all or part of the extra cost for advanced degrees, so the direct net cost to the schools system is negligable.</p>

<p>by the way, in my school district, an new teacher with a bachelors starts at $32,706/yr. A new teacher with a masters starts at $37,447. So someone who gets a bachelors and then teaches for two years before taking two years off to get a masters would have costs themselves almost $10,000 in wages over the person who goes straight into a masters program after getting a bachelors.</p>

<p>Same way with a doctorate. In my school system an inexperianced teacher with a doctorate will start out making $11,283 a year more than one who just has a bachelors. Now it seems that it would take a long long time for the doctorate to pay off in a public school teaching situation, but the year to year salary jumps a lot faster for someone with a doctorate than a masters or bachelors. After 25 years the doctorate is making $20k/yr more than the bachelors and would have earned about $300k more after 25 years of service than the person with a bachelors and 28 years teaching (even after subtracting out a reasonable amount for the cost of the doctorate degree).</p>

<p>imagep, one more factor to throw into the mix is that school districts with budget crunches will sometimes hire teachers without the advanced degrees, or with less experience, because the pay scale is lower.) This has happened to folks I know in a few different states. In private schools (where the pay scale is much lower, but the working conditions are often better) an advanced degree is definitely a plus on the resume.</p>

<p>^^^^My experience may not be universal, but…
School districts generally fund teaching positions by “FTE”, ie, full time equivalence, not amount of salary allotted. This means that a school gets x number of full time positions, depending upon enrollment. So, when a school has an opening for a full time music teacher, there isn’t a salary cap per se based upon education. There WILL be one based upon credit for years of teaching experience. In my area, my school district will give almost unlimited credit for years of full-time teaching, but neighboring districts give only two years worth of credit. So, if a teacher with five years of previous experience gets a job in a district that gives credit for only two, then the teacher starts on “step 3”. If s/he has a masters degree then credit is given for the masters. I am unaware of a district that wouldn’t give salary credit for education. Some count any masters (30, 45, or 60 credits) all the same, but will give additional salary based upon education taken AFTER the masters, regardless of the # credits required for that masters. So, you might see: Masters plus 15 credits, Masters plus 30, Masters plus 60, with additional moneys allotted for a PHD.</p>

<p>So, I don’t believe that a school won’t hire someone because they have a masters and therefore will cost more money. The money simply isn’t allotted that way, in my experience. For example, I am at the very top of the salary schedule, due to both education and years of experience. I am currently working a 50% position (my choice) and the salary I receive is equal to a full-time beginning teacher. If I left my position, my school would NOT be able to hire two beginning teachers in my place–they would still have only a half-time position available.</p>

<p>So, actually, getting the masters right after undergrad probably won’t keep you from getting the job. Having multiple years of teaching experience might, but even then, if you are willing to accept the salary of a third year teacher, the school will be happy to have you.</p>

<p>Of course, in other states, and in private schools, the situation may be quite different. The real challenge at this point will be keeping the arts in the schools at all, sad to say.</p>

<p>edited to respond to glassharmonica: school districts with budget crunches will sometimes hire teachers without the advanced degrees, or with less experience, because the pay scale is lower. This has happened to folks I know in a few different states.</p>

<p>Well, maybe. OR maybe not, because people don’t really tell you the real reason why you didn’t get hired. If an applicant got a letter stating that they were not hired because they have a masters, then I’d believe it. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but often we don’t know the exact reason we didn’t receive an offer. Even public schools like to brag that their faculty have advanced degrees. On the other hand, with school funding being decimated, anything is possible, I suppose.</p>

<p>My H (music teacher) jokes that he’ll retire right when our D gets her music ed degree, creating a job opening for her!</p>

<p>glassharmonica, I understand that risk, and I don’t disagree that may happen at some school districts, but really haven’t observed that happening in my particular school district. I don’t discount the fact that in some particular school districts they may be trying to hire the cheapest workers possible, but due to our improving economy, I don’t see that trend continuing.</p>

<p>Particularly in music at the high school level, in my district they prefer teachers with advanced degrees, even at a additional cost. Principals get more pats on the back for having a highly qualified staff than they do for saving the taxpayer money. In my area, football coaches get paid more than principals, and no one complains about wasting money as long as the team is winning.</p>

<p>In the past few weeks someone posted about how schools cut the budget of the arts before they cut anything else, but I don’t believe that it is fair to make such a broad and sweaping statement. In my school district, they HIRED more arts teachers during the recession.</p>

<p>A couple of years ago I read about this school board that voted to kill the high school music program to save money. At the very next school board meeting they voted to reinstate the high school music program because they discovered it was cheaper to teach band and chorus with 50-100 students per class than it was to hire more vocational school teachers at 15 students per class (apparently they already had all the english and science and math teachers they needed). The concept that music classes cost the tax payers is a myth. Music classes saves the tax payer when compared to all alternatives.</p>

<p>My expectation (hope) is that our economy is now experiancing growth, and that further budget cuts will be very rare. By the time someone entering college next year or the year after graduates, school budgets will likely be healthy again. If not, we are all doomed anyway.</p>

<p>Sopranomom92 would probably know more about this than me cause I don’t know any specifics but my friend, whose mom is on the school board for our district, tells me that teachers’ unions tend to try to prevent those with doctoral level degrees from getting public school teaching jobs, as they should be teaching college due to their qualifications. I know that’s vague and I honestly have no idea what he meant by telling me that the unions make it harder for doctors to get teaching jobs but if he’s right, one should not expect to teach anything other than college with a PhD/DM/DMA/DME/EdD. (As a side note, is there any other major that has so many degree options?)</p>

<p>Thank you all for your insights. It’s evident that different states and school districts have different guidelines for hiring. I live in NY so eventually a masters is required. Here they also have ‘positions’ opened, not by money available for salaries. In our district we actually do have a PhD in music in one of the schools.</p>

<p>My d’s teacher also jokes that he will retire when she’s available!</p>

<p>I am trying to encourage my d to follow what she loves - yes, with an eye to job placement - but she has a passion both for her instrument and for teaching. Some are discouraging her with talk of budget cuts, etc. But since she is willing to relocate, I believe it is important for her to pursue what I believe she would love to do and also be good at it. There’s a book entitlted “Love what you do and the money will follow.” I’m hoping this will be the case for her.</p>

<p>I should probably reiterate that I do live in Wisconsin so the whole prospect of teaching public school is different here than most other states. Not trying to make a political statement, just a fact.</p>