Five Year Post Graduation Update

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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My daughter attended NYU Steinhardt and graduated with her BM degree in Vocal Performance with a musical theatre concentration in 2012. She was attracted to NYU because she was a strong student and wanted the academics that NYU offered and a chance to minor outside of MT. She ended up graduating with two minors–one in English lit and the other in the Business of Entertainment, Media and Technology.

As much as she enjoyed performing and studying voice, by the beginning of junior year, she was becoming unsure that she wanted to be a performer, having attended a bunch of open calls and seeing the life that those graduating before her lead. She didn’t want to constantly audition or leave NYC to go on the road or on a cruise ship. She realized there was a big difference between being the star in her high school and pursuing acting full time. She didn’t want to have survival jobs. At the same time, she began to see herself pursuing the business end of entertainment and was enjoying producing student shows and running the student run theatre group at Steinhardt. She began to intern in NYC. Upon graduation, she didn’t audition, but instead took positions working in casting, entertainment marketing and as a coordinator in a very high level talent agency.

About a year or so ago, she was still frustrated by the lack of upward mobility in these coveted entertainment jobs. Her work colleagues were all stuck at the assistant/ coordinator level in an array of entertainment organizations. They were all high qualified, from top schools and vastly underpaid.

So in an effort to break from the crowd and gain access to higher level positions, she decided to start the process of applying for an MBA. She took accounting and statistics at a NYC community college to show colleges that she could do well in quantitative classes. She did a lot of GMAT practice and tutoring to get her scores up from abysmal to acceptable. And she worked hard to write strong essays that sold her unique background, experience as an MT major, performer and how she feels the entertainment industry needs more diversity and female representation.

Well, yesterday all that hard work paid off. She got a phone call from NYU Stern offering her a full tuition scholarship to their 2 year MBA program (worth $140,000!!) This evening, she came home from a show to find a package from the Kelley School of Business, also offering a full tuition scholarship.

So for all those parents wringing their hands, worrying about where MT will lead their children, rest assured that there are many paths to success!

Good luck to all those waiting for results. It wasn’t any easier now, when I was waiting for MBA acceptances!!

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Thank you for sharing your D’s story! Shows that MT/Acting/VP students have a skill set and tenacity that can be molded into just about any shape one could desire. Congrats to your D and the future success she creates!

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Fantastic success story. Thank you for sharing!!!

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Many congrats to your D on those awesome MBA acceptances with full scholarships!

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@uskoolfish ~Congrats!

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@uskoolfish Wow! Congrats…thanks for the update!

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@uskoolfish Your D’s story was one of the first I closely followed here. I really enjoyed reading the update. Thank you for sharing.

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Great update! Thanks for telling us ! Much luck to
your daughter!!

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@uskoolfish , that is a fabulous story. Thanks for sharing!

My D interned full time with a casting agency in NYC last summer, and said the same thing to me–that all the younger people (in their 20s, early 30s) she encountered in that field were highly qualified, but paid abysmal wages. Several had two jobs to make ends meet. She wondered out loud to me how one got from assistant or coordinator to the actual head of an agency, and I had no idea how to answer her! It was so smart of your D to pursue her MBA. Congratulations to her!!!

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@connections Hopefully having an MBA will open up more options at higher level positions in the entertainment field.

She is also going to be open to positions in product/ brand management/marketing and non-profit management–hopefully in arts-related organizations. She is hoping to get an internship the summer between the first and second year of her program which will hopefully lead to a job offer. She’s been told that some people take offers in brand management to gain experience and then can swing back into entertainment on a higher level. But in either case, I think this path will give her many more opportunities.

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@uskoolfish , Great plan! Plus, she got a full tuition scholarship at two top schools, which gives her so much more freedom and flexibility! Does she know which program she’s going to choose yet?

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@connections. Definitely NYU. She’s living with her bf there. And we live on Long Island and have an apartment in Manhattan–where our younger D lives. She feels she can also intern during the year. Kelley is a great school, but NYU has better media and entertainment networking. She’s waiting to get everything in writing, and then will accept.

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Sounds like a great fit and new promising adventure for your daughter so congrats and kudos for her resilience and success! There was mention above about the abysmal pay for theater work post BFA MT graduation and curious what is either the wage range or typical to expect and how does that stack up with funding living expenses and is there a financial deficit there? I have heard advice dont take out more in college loans over 4 years than you expect to make in your first year earnings if possible…so thats why I ask? What have others observed from their childrens perspective or their kids observed first hand that have been down this path and what is a realistic expectation of earnings if you are able to find successful work in your first year or first job ?

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@bfamtdad, we were referring to the pay for casting agency assistants. This isn’t the same as theatre work.

However, not to be a downer, but I’d say the realistic pay for a recent MT grad is going to be lower than a casting agency assistant–under $30K, often with no benefits. And that’s if you’re really fortunate. It’s a very very tough business. I mean, even if you were the exceptional person who got cast on graduation or the first year, it’s really unusual to have back-to-back runs (even for highly successful B’way veterans), so there will be large gaps in which you are unemployed. And above all: I think it’s awesome to land a professional contract of any sort your first year out.

Here’s a general equity chart: http://www.actorsequity.org/agreements/agreement_info.asp?inc=031

That gives you a very rough idea of salary. Remember again there are no benefits and it is rare to have back-to-back runs. It’s also rare to land equity roles your first year on graduation.There are non-equity roles too, both in equity theatres and non-equity theatres

So the short answer is the vast majority of new grads have to expect to work in a flexible survival job. A handful may be fortunate to be able to live on their MT work alone upon graduation, but even highly successful grads who can live off their arts choose to diversify in order to earn their livings, eg sing/play an instrument at nightclubs, write songs or comedy, etc etc. Some may continue to build their career by such diversification.

As far as loans, I don’t know. I mean Stafford loans are capped at about $30K total. The ‘good’ news is that they now have income-driven repayment plans, so at least there’s that…

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@uskoolfish and @connections, really great to hear about your kids’ careers! It’s my dream to work in casting or agency and I’ve already thought hard about going for an MBA or MFA in Theater Management/Producing once I finish undergrad. Thanks for sharing!

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Also, to assuage my intense anxiety about What Happens When I Graduate, I’ve had coffee with nearly every working actor or recent grad I know in Philly or New York and asked them in detail about their finances and jobs. It’s helped a TON and I would highly recommend talking to your friends who are out there doing theater professionally and/or just auditioning! Plus it helps to build your network :slight_smile:

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@bfamtdad The short answer to your question about earnings is that they are barely enough for independent survival in NYC. The theatre related jobs that my daughter had paid just about minimum wage today. Therefore, some of my daughter’s friends who were still auditioning and relying on survival jobs, were ultimately making about the same amount of money as she was. I am not going to lie. Many of my daughter’s friends are getting some money from family members. Some help with rent. Some buy all their clothing. Some send monthly checks or allow their children to charge expenses on their credit cards. Some pay for their health care insurance and cell phones. My daughter at that salary level was barely able to pay $800/ for rent. So we helped by paying the difference on a NYC apartment.

Her first job was working at a top casting agency. First they brought her on as an unpaid intern (this is post graduation.) Then she was promoted to apprentice which paid $10/hr. They wanted her to re-new as an apprentice, but luckily a top talent agency called her out of the blue–she had interviewed almost a year before. She was excited to take on this new opportunity, but unfortunately they only pay $30K a year to their assistants. Assistants in smaller agencies make even less money. And she was lucky to even gain the position of assistant. Most new grads have to start on the intern level for a year or more, then are given jobs as temporary assistants before they are given a desk (working for an agent in a permanent position.) She stayed in the theatre dept. of this agency for close to 3 years, but it became clearer and clearer that there was no opportunity for growth.

So she decided to take a job in the marketing department at an entertainment law firm. There, she made a jump to $40K a year, still well below the average salary for NYU recent graduates (and by this time she was 3+ years out). After a few months at this position, she decided that the way up–both salary-wise and career-wise–would be to pursue her MBA. So she started the process of preparing for the GMAT, etc.

While she would love to stay in the entertainment industry, she is going to consider all options that will become available to her as she pursues her MBA. I would say that to live comfortably in NYC, one really needs to be closer to a $70K a year salary. The average MBA salary for a non-financial industry job post- MBA is probably $70K to $110K in marketing, media and entertainment, HR or non-profit. So we will see where this leads her!

@MTVT2015 I would strongly advise against taking on more debt and pursuing a MFA in Theatre management or Producing as an immediate goal. Most of those jobs are going to be had through learning in the field, not in the classroom. I would certainly not try it as an option directly out of school. As for an MBA, most good schools want you to have five years of working experience, and their average applicants are 27 or 28.

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Here area couple of links that discuss what is likely necessary to establish yourself in NY or other large cities upon graduation. Keep in mind that many of these posts were made years ago so the amount needed would obviously be higher today.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/16221573#Comment_16221573

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/706040-post-graduation-expenses-settling-into-la-nyc.html

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@uskoolfish That’s good advice. I definitely wouldn’t want to do it right away/without professional experience anyway.