Flagship state university expensive for you? Calling middle class caught in middle

Parents Forum
81

<p>And we are glad to be in the Sunshine State too! The estimated expenses for in-state tuition and on-campus living is $13,504/=. Throw in the Florida Bright Futures Scholarships that are awarded on merits and no quota, and one's 4-year academic challenge in the State Flagship school, is assured, provided as aforesaid, one's prepared to be academically challenged.</p>

<p>The one or two-breadwinners dilemma is an old one, and needs to be evaluated in the context of each circumstance. Not all employable moms can work, for intance, if she is on a H4 visa (dependent of a work permit holder) that disallows work, to take an extreme example. But she can have more time to plan the family budget and exercise fiscal restraint for a larger goal: children's college education, instilling in the children the valuable lesson of living within one's means.</p>

82

<p>As I stated in post #24:
I suppose I could rationalize that my tax money should not go to pay for the single parent who decided to have children (and now cannot pay for college with one salary), for a married couple with more than the # of children that they could afford to send to college, for the student that has a 2.7 high school average, for a student that did not both work and save the last 2 years of high school, for the family that made over six figures and spent their money on designer clothes and expensive cars, and the list goes on. Perhaps my middle class income should not be stretched to pay taxes to carry part of the tuition of poor students, while I pay full freight. In the end, we are not punishing anyone but ourselves. The students need a college or vocational education to be productive members of society.</p>

83

<p>I know, we chose to have 5 children. I know a lot of parents who send their kids to the 3rd or 4th tier state schools because those schools will give merit aid to their high-achieving kids. </p>

<p>I am just surprised to find out the flagship state school is so D!@# expensive---much more so than the lower tier state schools. I mean, you work hard to raise smart, hard working kids and are so happy you have a state school that ranks in the top ten or twenty in many areas. Little Johnny is 7 years old and smart in math and loves to build with legos. You think, "wow, we are so lucky to have University of Illinois as one of our top schools in engineering" and just assume it will be affordable with sacrifice because it is a state school. Then you find out U of I is $24,000 a year for that engineering degree.....it's a lot is all I am saying. Several of our son's friends didn't apply there or aren't going because of cost and no amount of sacrifice can make it work for them. </p>

<p>momoffive</p>

84

<p>One of the reasons they are so highly ranked is that they have highly regarded faculty, well equipped labs, research funding . . . All those things come at a high price. The lower tier schools don't have such high costs, of course the tuition is lower. Only a small portion of the university's budget comes from the state. I am all for increasing funding to state schools. My husband teaches at one of the most expensive state universities and I am sure they lose many promising students to the privates for exactly the same reason you are making that choice.</p>

85

<p>momoffive, I definitely see your point. I think it is shameful to have such high instate tuition for students who need to stay instate and attend a public university, whether it is in Illinois, or any other state. 24,000 is just not affordable tuition for most folks.</p>

86

<p>Northeastmom, the problem is that selecting which kids get to go to which schools based on their parents' decisions about how many kids to have, where to live, stay at home moms, etc. doesn't necessarily make the best use of our nation's human resources. To maximize our future ideally each student would be educated to the highest level they are capable of performing at. Having high quality public univerisities which are not prohibitively expensive serves that purpose. Raising public school tuition can only serve to keep out some otherwise qualified and deserving students. (Cross-posted with your #86 - I see you get the point already.)</p>

<p>And you've been tricked into accepting a false dichotomy. The effective cost of a public college education began rising at the same time as the tax code stopped being progressive and became flat to regressive - that is, taxes were cut for the benefit of the extremely wealthy at the expense of the middle class - and particularly middle class college students. (Started around 1980.) It's not the taxes on your middle class income we're talking about, it's the taxes people with incomes abve $500,000 per year aren't paying anymore that are the problem.</p>

87

<p>Kluge, the states fund colleges, not the federal gov. Quit throwing out red herrings. The major thing the federal government funds at colleges is research and that funding has been booming.</p>

<p>When times were flush the states starting funding all sorts of nice programs that they could not afford when the tough times came. So they had to cut (unlike the federal gov.) and higher ed seemed to be a favorite place to cut. Don't like it--vote in another state government.</p>

88

<p>which school is supposed to be so expensive?
*2005-'06 Annual Tuition & Fees </p>

<p>Chicago State University<br>
$7,390
Eastern Illinois University
$6,709
Governors State University<br>
$5,308
Illinois State University<br>
$7,534
Northeastern Illlinois University<br>
$6,682
Northern Illinois University<br>
$7,556
Southern Illinois University / Carbondale<br>
$6,825
Southern Illinois University / Edwardsville</p>

<p>$5,507
University of Illinois at Springfield<br>
$7,062
University of Illinois at Chicago<br>
$8,492
University of Illinois at Urbana / Champaign<br>
$8,624
Western Illinois University
$7,212</p>

<p>Weighted Tuition and Fees<br>
$7,151*</p>

<p>I agree that college is very pricey- we weren't nearly able to save for all 4 years of college- and paying our EFC requires some borrowing- however- we did find a reasonable choice of schools that were good matches- & a match included being able to afford tuition.
I understand having your heart set on a school- but if you can't afford it you can't afford it.
There are a lot of choices out there- & while in the short term we can't change financing of the colleges- we can investigate all options.</p>

89

<p>Down the street from us we have a family of five kids who have had 4 kids in college at once. They are by no means wealthy, Dad is mid-tier gov't employee, mom is SAH mom. Somehow they managed to pay for 4 kids to private colleges (good schools) without too much debt. The 5th child ended up at the Naval Academy so that was free.</p>

90

<p>Seems reasonable to me. Maybe you have to live at home and commute to a less than "ideal" campus but under $10K with books and all is doable with loans that won't totally kill you. Throw in the first 2 years at a cheap CC and you cut the cost even more.</p>

91

<p>University of Illinois per our Financial Aid Award Letter:
Tuition and Fees: 13,524 (about 3,000 extra for students in engineering and physical sciences)
Books and Supplies: 1,000
Living Expenses: 7,716
Transportation: 470
Miscellaneous Expenses: 2050</p>

<p>Total: $24, 760</p>

<p>Per my earlier post. </p>

<p>I agree if you can't do it, you can't do it.................but if you have one of the top schools in the country as your flagship state university, it's a shame if you can't go because they only give loans as aid (never have heard of anyone getting grants, altho I'm sure some exist).</p>

<p>momoffive</p>

92

<p>mothedear, who knows how they did it b/c a dollar can only go so far. I don't know if you are in an area where cost of living is lower, but where I live the real estate taxes on your home could kill you. Since this person worked for the government, I assume they received a pension and medical insurance. Unfortunately, since we own our own business we need to pay for our medical insurance (another insane fee) and provide for our own retirement (something one is penalized for when they are seeking financial aid). Perhaps your neighbor did it by getting a windfall from one of their children's grandparents or other relatives.</p>

93

<p>this is urbana right?
I see that for freshman- tuition stays the same all four years
$7708 tuition
$ 500 building costs
$1368 for increased health clinic costs and building costs at Urbana
$7216 double room and board
<a href="http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/04/12/tuition_increase_approved%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/04/12/tuition_increase_approved&lt;/a>
It looks like they are charging way more for the program he is interested in. Not all schools charge extra- my D school certainly didn't- and I haven't heard of that very often- so that is something to take into consideration.
Without the extra costs for his major- it doesn't seem out of line.
Students can get work study jobs that can pay for books and personal expenses- even if they don't qualify for workstudy- it isn't unreasonable to assume they can work 10 -15 hours a week.
They also should be working summers- my D earns about $3,000 a summer, sometimes more and all of that is put towards tuition.</p>

<p>Students have subsidized and unsubsidized loans available- again, they should be contributing to the cost of their own education- graduating with $15,000 to $20,000 in student loan debt is not unreasonable.</p>

<p>and again as barrons has brought up- attending the first two years at a cc and transferring is a way to slash college costs</p>

<p>BUt it is important to first sit down with your bankstatement and child and determine how much you can fund out of college savings- how much you can fund out of income and how much you are willing to borrow- then added to the students contribution of school year job, summer job and student loans you have an idea of what kind of schools you are looking at.
Its better IMO to do it that way round- than to look at the expensive schools and then try and figure out how to pay for it.</p>

<p>( of course the 100% need met schools- may be a better financial and educational deal, than just paying teh whole thing at your neighborhood university)</p>

94

<p>You need to be careful going the cc route, b/c sometimes many credits will not be accepted. I know someone that wasted an entire year b/c of this issure. In the east, I believe going to a SUNY cc will avoid this pitfall, when transferring to a SUNY 4 year college.</p>

95

<p>From the U-- <a href="http://www.oar.uiuc.edu/future/freshmen/tuition.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.oar.uiuc.edu/future/freshmen/tuition.html&lt;/a>
This year's tuition was $8670. (I doubt it's gone down ;).)<br>
Sciences majors added $2,522; engineering majors added $3162.</p>

<p>Of course, some of your household expenses (food, water . . .) will be lower once DS is away at college. That difference will help offset some of the college costs.</p>

96

<p>they should be able to help in the CC advising office however- especially if you know what program you are interested at the university( but you always need to be proactive and do your own research- find out what classes you need- look elsewhere than at the college bookstore for books- <a href="http://www.bestbookbuys.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.bestbookbuys.com&lt;/a> and read the bulletin boards and student newspapers for tips on profs and book exchanges)
transferring between states isnt a good idea- but for basic courses like Eng 101 , they are often smaller than at the Univ, although I do see that Illinois wants to reduce class size so that 50% of classes have fewer than 20 students- that is pretty impressive- in middle school my younger daughter had more than that in her classes and in high school the average class size is 32 +</p>

97

<p>*University of Illinois trustees on Tuesday approved a tuition increase </p>

<p>Beginning with the 2006-07 school year, freshmen enrolled in general degree programs at the Urbana-Champaign campus will pay $3,854 per semester in tuition. That's an increase of about $333 per semester.
The amount will remain fixed for four years for incoming freshmen, according to a state law. It's an increase of 9.4 percent from the amount current freshmen are paying.</p>

<p>"The tuition increase is really equivalent to 3.6 percent per year, which is about at the inflation rate," said UI Vice President for Academic Affairs Chet Gardner, in his presentation to the UI Board of Trustees Tuesday.*</p>

98

<p>""mothedear, who knows how they did it b/c a dollar can only go so far. I don't know if you are in an area where cost of living is lower, but where I live the real estate taxes on your home could kill you. Since this person worked for the government, I assume they received a pension and medical insurance. Unfortunately, since we own our own business we need to pay for our medical insurance (another insane fee) and provide for our own retirement (something one is penalized for when they are seeking financial aid). Perhaps your neighbor did it by getting a windfall from one of their children's grandparents or other relatives.""</p>

<p>We live outside DC, not as bad as NY but definitely a high-cost area. Property assessments and the taxes are very expensive. Gov't employees pay some for their insurance as well as the Thrift Savings Plan (their 401k).</p>

<p>The mom complains about the costs as we all do so I have no idea of their personal circumstances. I do know they rarely go anywhere, the cars are old, the house needs to be updated, the kids worked in the summers and during the school year, etc.</p>

<hr>

<p>And for NEMom. Very good point. I advised students at a community college in a different state, manyof whom were planning on transferring to a 4 year state school after 2 years at the cc. We always made sure they knew what classes would only count for associate level vs transferability to a 4 yr bachelor's program</p>

99

<p>Illinois CCs have a very detailed transfer program tied to majors at UI and other 4 year schools.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.itransfer.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.itransfer.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

100

<p>
[quote]
Barrons posted: Kluge, the states fund colleges, not the federal gov. Quit throwing out red herrings. The major thing the federal government funds at colleges is research and that funding has been booming.</p>

<p>When times were flush the states starting funding all sorts of nice programs that they could not afford when the tough times came. So they had to cut (unlike the federal gov.) and higher ed seemed to be a favorite place to cut. Don't like it--vote in another state government.

[/quote]
"Times were flush" from the 50's through the 70's, despite the cold war, Viet Nam, some severe recessions, etc. Suddenly, starting around 1980, we couldn't afford to fund higher education? Here's a few facts for you:
[quote]
UC 2006-2007 budget statement:
The State contributed about $15,500 to the cost of education for each UC general campus student in 1985, and now only contributes about $9,500 per student per year – a 40% decline (figures in constant dollars).

[/quote]
And this report has some nice charts showing public college fees in California and other western states from the 70's through the 90's, illustrating the sudden start of increasing fees around 1980: <a href="http://www.ucop.edu/acadinit/mastplan/ProjectL.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ucop.edu/acadinit/mastplan/ProjectL.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I know that rightist ideologues like to try to separate out all the consequences from the quiet economic siege that the middle class has been under for the past twenty-five years, but they have grown too large to ignore any more. When California's new Governator cut taxes by $5 billion (a motor vehicle tax) as his first act in office in 2003 (when the state was running a $15 billion deficit) he practically dislocated his shoulder patting himself on the back. The Chamber of Commerce continues to crow over this fine action by Schwartzenegger. UC fees were hiked 14% that year - and another 8% the following year. Vote in another state government? California, for all its faults, still does a better job than most states.</p>

<p>It's not a "times were flush" vs. "times are tough" thing. We short education in good times and bad - and we have no choice because the tax dollars aren't there. State, federal, local; income tax, property tax, sales tax, ultimately all public services - including education - are paid from tax dollars. The quiet shift of the tax burder from the wealthy to the poor and middle class over the past 25 years is not limited to federal taxation. More and more state revenue comes from sales taxes - which are regressive - and less and less from property value taxes - which tend to be progressive. The tax cut campaigns are slick and seductive, and anyone who dares to point out that you can't get something for nothing is savaged as a "tax and spend liberal."</p>

<p>Its a complex subject, but ignoring the correlation between the decline in financial contribution to the common good by the extremely wealthy and the increase in costs to everyone else is naive - and college costs is a prime example of the multiple processes which continue to shift more and more of the nation's wealth from the poor and middle class to the extremely wealthy.</p>