<p>So really started making the big bucks after you become an associate at GB? How long does it take for an i-banker to become an associate on average? I take it you were given a faster promotion because of either your superior skills and or father's connections.</p>
<p>KRK, those statistics are very easily accessible. For example:</p>
<p>1) Social consciousness. I think that if most of the points below are correct, this point is validated.</p>
<p>2) Global thinking and understanding.
I do not have many stats on this, but generally speaking, Europeans have a better grasp of world affairs, geography and foreign cultures than Americans. That's from my experience having lived in the US and in Europe for several years.</p>
<p>3) Dealing with poverty
In the US, roughly 15% of Americans live below the poverty line. In Western Europe, it is more like 7% (only the UK, Portugal, Greece and Spain are above 10%). </p>
<p>4) Affordable access to world class medicine for all citizens.
Western European medical facilities and doctors are among the best in the World and medicine is free for all Europeans. Obviously, this can cause long waits, but at least the masses have good medical care. In the US, between 15% and 25% do not have any sort of medical insurance whatsoever. And not all Europeans have to wait to be taken care of. There are incredible facilities that provide highly individualized and prompt care for those who can afford it. So at the upper echlons of society, medical care in Europe is not much unlike medical care in the US. But at the lowest economic levels, Europeans are still covered where many Americans aren't.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cbpp.org/8-26-04health.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.cbpp.org/8-26-04health.htm</a></p>
<p>5) Affordable access to world class education for all citizens
It costs less than $5,000/year (compared to $25,000-$33,000/year in elite US universities) in tuition for a European citizen to attend Cambridge, Oxford, London School of Economics, Imperial or any other elite English university. French and German universities are even cheaper.</p>
<p>6) Crime rates
In Western Europe, murder and rape rates are roughly 3 times lower than they are in the US. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf</a></p>
<p>12) Longer life expectancy</p>
<p>In Western Europe, the average life expectancy is close to 79. In the US it is slightly over 77.</p>
<p>13) Lower infant mortality rate</p>
<p>In Western Europe it is under 5 per 1,000. In the US is is close to 7 per 1,000.</p>
<p>14) Lower teen-pregnancy rates
Teenage pregnancy:
US: 8%
EU average: 2.5%</p>
<p>18) More aid donation to poor nations:</p>
<p>In 2004:
France: $8.5 billion
Germany: $7.5 billion
England: $7.5 billion
Holland: $4 billion
Italy: $2.5 billion
Spain: $2.5 billion
Sweden: $2.5 billion
Denmark: $2 billion
TOTAL: $37 billion</p>
<p>US: $19 billion</p>
<p>In terms of donation relative to GDP, Europeans give more than twice more than the US.</p>
<p>19) More responsible enviornmental policies</p>
<p>Europe and most other developed nations have taken several steps to curb use of energy in an attempt to clean up the environment. As you can see, Germany, France, England, Italy, Spain, Holland, Sweden and Denmark combined (their combined population is roughly equal to the of the US) consume about half of what the US consume. </p>
<p>I have "little to judge the US"? I have lived 10 years in the US (1992-1996, 1999-2004), all of them as an adult. Did you live 10 years in Europe as an adult? If I am not qualified to speak of the US, they you certainly aren't qualified to discuss Europe. </p>
<p>And KRK, in case you didn't know, I majored in Economics from one your country's top Econ programs. I am well aware of economic principles. A word of caution, never get too carried away with Economics. It is a wonderful field, but it is more akin to philosophy and mathematics than it is to the real world. One cannot draw to many conclusions from the field. </p>
<p>How do you figure that Europe's "Economic system is broke"? It grows at a slower rate than the US, but it is not doing too badly. I personally think unions are useless too. I never claimed they were good. In fact, I spent three years doing battle with unions at Ford and Eaton. I enjoyed crushing them. But job security is not an issue in Europe. In fact, once you have a job in Europe, you are pretty set, unless you perform badly or unethically. Finding jobs is the problem, not keeping them. Admitedly, the EU's unemployement rate of 10% is high. But at least the 90% who do have jobs have a far less stressful lifestyle.</p>
<p>And there isn't a shift to the right in Europe. The right has only one or two parties, so they get more votes than left and central parties, but in totality, over 75% of Germans and French are center or left. That is not about to change. </p>
<p>Finally, it is you, not I, who are narrowminded. I do not recal telling you to stay away from my country simply because I do not agree with you. But do not worry, I have no intention of living in the US in the future. In fact, I never intended in living in the US once in my 30s. It is a great country that I respect and admire greatly. Americans, as a society, are a highly ethical people who mean well. My years at the University of Michigan will undoubtably be my best ever. I intend to visit the US often and I will certainly take my family to the US frequently...even encourage my children (should I ever have any) to attend US universities. Nothing beats the undergraduate experience in the US. But the US does not suit my lifestyle.</p>
<p>Eternity, my father's connections were invaluable. I worked hard and performed well, but without my father's connections, I would not have been nearly as successful in the IBanking field.</p>
<p>I guess humility is not an easy thing to learn. If someone who's well-educated and smart has lived in various places for many years, my first guess is any comparison he's making would be worth listening. After listening, if you feel some of his points are outrageous, think about first why you feel that way. Do you really know well enough to actually conclude his points are wrong or are you just being defensive?? Being a foreigner myself, I am aware how there exists difference between "acquiring info" about a country or region by simply pulling articles (which are often distorted or biased) and "knowing" it by living and experiencing there firsthand.</p>
<p>The typical answer when someone brings up the faults of America is something to the effect of,"Why dont you just leave then!" or "Why do you hate America!" Is it not allowed to talk about whats wrong anymore? People are so brainwashed by current politics that say if you're not 100 percent with us (the president's policies) then you must be 100 percent against us. If people didn't stand up when things got bad then you'd be living in the United States of Britain.</p>
<p>It is in human nature to conform to society. The quote "if you're not with us, you're against us" is really a conformist kind of society. It is made of people who are afraid to speak out and truly listen to their hearts; their afraid of change and won't allow their minds to appreciate the beauty of it.</p>
<p>Change is not always for the better. There is a time for conservation and a time for progression.</p>
<p>I think its funny that the US wasn't progressive enough so Alexandre moves to the Middle East.</p>
<p>KK19131, things always change, the argument is in the how, where and why of that change. You don't think the current leaders are changing the country and the world? They're implementing more change than most administrations, but not for the better as far as I'm concerned.</p>
<p>Legopan, ther are many reasons I left the US. I always knew I would leave because, like I said, it does not suit my lifestyle. I believe in a balance between my work life and my social life. Most of my friends and family live in Europe and the Middle East. My parents and eldest sister live in Beirut. My younger sister lives in the UAE too. My best friend lives in Dubai, as does my uncle.Eventually, I intend on settling down in France or Germany. Of all the places I lived, those two are the ones that appealed the most to my personality.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The typical answer when someone brings up the faults of America is something to the effect of,"Why dont you just leave then!" or "Why do you hate America!" Is it not allowed to talk about whats wrong anymore? People are so brainwashed by current politics that say if you're not 100 percent with us (the president's policies) then you must be 100 percent against us. If people didn't stand up when things got bad then you'd be living in the United States of Britain.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Very interesting you would say that, GS, because I distinctly remember that when I started talking about the crime in the city of Berkeley, you asked me why I didn't just leave the city (which in fact I did!). Yet here you are defending the right of people to point out things that are wrong. I'm going to remember you said that.</p>
<p>looking back this has got to be one of the most intense threads i've ever encountered. I mean who knew an NW thread on a minor topic would break down into a heated political discussion. Anyone have anymore thoughts or opinions on which country is making a better move to be a more accepting, egalitarian society?</p>