<p>Tanstafl--Thanks for posting your story.</p>
<p>Here's another one--from a philosophy professor at a Florida college. The tone is a bit shrill, but her experience may be a warning of what will happen if the bill passes.</p>
<p>The bill SHOULD, MUST, AND WILL pass.</p>
<p>What, are professors God or something, claiming to be "know-it-alls", and dictate to a student that she or he is inferior or wrong?</p>
<p>Uh, no.</p>
<p>That bill proves that this is AMERICA BABY, WHERE EVERYONE'S GOT RIGHTS.</p>
<p>HELL YEAH.</p>
<p>There is only one logical conclusion...</p>
<p>1.) If the student was shown the door for wanting to talk about intelligent design it's because he would not shut up and he was in a BIOLOGY class. I really doubt the professor would kick him for mere mention of intelligent design.</p>
<p>2) The law is wrong, it should not pass, as that would create a scenario where teachers may be afraid to contradict a students point of view, then if the professor has to give him/her a bad grade the student thinks he/she has a lawsuit.
(Screw the PC stuff Im just gonna write he from now on cause its shorter)</p>
<p>3) Intelligent design is a belief and it has no place being discussed in any science class<em>. If it was called "this way is right" class, then you have an argument, but we just call it science for a reason. (</em>Social sciences the exception)</p>
<p>4) The average rates of Democrats v Republicans in University faculties is 7:1. That means that the educated will continue to get a more liberal education, deal with it. Or drop out and stop whining.</p>
<p>50 years ago if you believed in desegregation you were a liberal. Now days we look back on the conservatives of that time with an almost evil glare. (Governor Faubus, yes the one not letting black students into the Little Rock high school in Arkansas, you've all seen Forest Gump) I wonder if that will continue for the next 50 years??</p>
<p>And finally, back to the 7:1 ratio of Democrats to Republicans in University faculties. Assuming there is no nationwide secret liberal organization keeping Republicans from becoming teachers, what does that tell you about the kind of people they are!!??</p>
<p>Certainly Republicans as a whole aren't smart enough to be college professors - combined with the fact that they're just plain old greedy and all they care about is making money so they don't pursue careers in education. But how the heck were they able to steal the Presidential elections in 2000 and 2004 with all of their stupidity? Since the Dems are obviously smarter because they predominate in academia, how were those dumb Repubs able to pull it off? The Dems are smart...the Repubs are stupid...but the Repubs are running the country and the brainy Dems seem to be withering on the vine. How could such a thing happen?</p>
<p>(Dumb luck. ;))</p>
<p>This is such a bad bill. There is more than enough pointless lawsuits and we dont need another bill comfounding the issue. A professor is there to teach with freedom> However it doesnt matter because the job market will straighten this out. I wouldnt want to hire a student whose science class was not as comprehensive because they had to spend valuable learning time on issues such as ID and alternatives to evolution. Other Countries will pick up the slack, countries like China, India and Japan can be more competitive in the tech sector and outsource american jobs. Dont expect a tech boost in florida</p>
<p>regarding Intelligent Design it shouldnt be given affiliation with science because it has nothing to do with science, it has no evidence. the logic behind it is circular, the belief that the complexity of the universe shows the need for a creator but was is to say that their is not a creator for the creator and so on on,Its a matter of faith and there is nothing wrong with that because a person should be able to believe what he chooses to but it doesnt belong in a science course.</p>
<p>"Certainly Republicans as a whole aren't smart enough to be college professors - combined with the fact that they're just plain old greedy and all they care about is making money so they don't pursue careers in education. But how the heck were they able to steal the Presidential elections in 2000 and 2004 with all of their stupidity? Since the Dems are obviously smarter because they predominate in academia, how were those dumb Repubs able to pull it off? The Dems are smart...the Repubs are stupid...but the Repubs are running the country and the brainy Dems seem to be withering on the vine. How could such a thing happen?"</p>
<p>what nonsense are you talking about, the republicans didnt steal the election they won the majority and earned it because they paid for the market research and surveys that gave them an edge over dems who dont spend much money on finding out whether an estate tax shuld be called a death tax and other small differences that can confuse the masses</p>
<p>Although you have a point there embedded in all that anti-Republican slander, one must remember that in a democracy the elected and past elected that have the power. (Even a republican will admit George Bush II wouldn't have had a chance without his father, and of course the Republican Supreme Court majority).
But as a whole it is the media that really has the power to control who is elected through public opinion, welcome to Fox News! (NBC is getting bad too)</p>
<p>If you really want unbiased news try watching the BBC.</p>
<p>P.S. Even though one may dislike the republicans they help maintain a balance in America. Ok like many other Democrats I may think that a slight left shift would do America good, (I grew up in England where even the conservatives are very liberal compared to the Republicans). But as time progresses history has shown that society moves to the left as a whole, so even though it's a slow process, its only a matter of time. But of course by then Democrats will still be left and Republicans right, and the same battle will commence with different boundaries drawn.</p>
<p>The danger as I see it is when the conservatives achieve such a majority through media manipulation that they in fact cause society to move backwards. But this hasn't happened yet. </p>
<p>Here is something that we might want to keep in mind; America only stopped executing children a month ago, yes one month! And that was only because Reagan was such an idiot that he actually appointed Kennedy (a very liberal conservative) to the Supreme Court. And no it was not on purpose, his first two choices were blocked and he was scrambling for a new choice.
(The only other countries to still execute children are the likes of Saudi Arabia and Iran)</p>
<p>How can America be so right, yet so wrong at the same time??</p>
<p>2bad4U has the right idea.</p>
<p>The Repubs are stupid while being manipulative at the same time. They're so sneaky. They take advantage of the easily confused masses who are stupid and only care about sports....and church. Doesn't it seem like all that those stupid right wingers want to do is go to church? Could you ever imagine one of those kooky Christians getting into a place like Harvard? That would be so funny. Wouldn't happen, though, because they're not smart enough. The only smart people are liberals. They read the New York Times, listen to NPR, and watch the BBC. Liberals are gods. Why can't everyone see that? Stupid masses...letting Bush and Limbaugh and Hannity manipulate them so. Time to move to Canada.</p>
<p>In case the rest of you haven't picked up on it by now, Browninfall is being sarcastic. A prior Brown post: </p>
<p>"I think the most derisive and nasty commentary is coming out of the mouths of people on the left. So what? People on the left think the right is derisive and people on the right think the left is derisive. My only point was that speakers at our more illustrious institutions of higher learning who lean to the right regularly have to deal with rude students. I don't believe that speakers whose views are liberal are subjected to that same treatment. I'm sure that you can cite anecdotes where liberals were treated poorly. I just don't believe it's anywhere near what conservatives have to deal with."</p>
<p>Brown is repeating a favorite right wing tactic: accusing the "liberals" of doing some bad thing - while doing that exact same thing - and then whining about being a victim. Limbaugh does it most frequently (he's a good whiner) but it's a staple right wing rhetorical device.</p>
<p>When was the last time that Noam Chomsky got a pie tossed in his face?</p>
<p>Just read the article written by Jacqueline Marcus (link posted by Janesmith above). Yikes. </p>
<p>Isn't Cuesta College, where Jacqueline teaches, a community college in CA (not Florida)?</p>
<p>"They read the New York Times, listen to NPR, and watch the BBC."</p>
<p>I love this part its just been repeated ad naseum</p>
<p>I just re-read the article posted above by Jacqueline Marcus. Does anyone else find the fact that the bill in the legislature is titled The Academic Freedom Bill of Rights just a tad ironic? Academic freedom??? Whose freedom???</p>
<p>Hey don't bash the BBC, New York Times we all know that even if it is trying to be fair and balanced ("fair and balanced", hahahahaha, anyway) it has a nice left sided tilt, NRP, same story. This I would call a tilt, if I had to think of an appropriate word for Fox it would be landslide.
The sad thing is people believe it, PIPA polls say that 60% of Americans held at least one of these views during the election:</p>
<p>1) Saddam Hussein has been directly linked with the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.</p>
<p>2) Weapons of mass destruction have already been found in Iraq.</p>
<p>3) World opinion favored the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.</p>
<p>None of which are true. 60% isn't that amazing!
<a href="http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf</a></p>
<p>But the BBC is the single best News organization in the world. No exception.</p>
<p>true, people are stupid !!!!</p>
<p>I noticed that no one has taken my Noam Chomsky bait. The reason, of course, is that speakers who espouse a left wing viewpoint - even those on the far left fringe - don't get physically assaulted when they speak at our colleges and universities. The comments of mine that kluge quoted above were taken from a discussion in a Brown University thread regarding a conservative speaker getting harassed while speaking at Brown. Just in the past few days Bill Kristol was physically assaulted while speaking at Earlham College and Pat Buchanan was physically assaulted when speaking at Western Michigan University. Does anyone notice a pattern here? Calling all defenders of free speech and academic freedom, where are you? Hello? Maybe David Horowitz has been able to make the inroads that he has because so many now recognize that comments from a conservative viewpoint are no longer tolerated in many of our academic settings. I personally don't know whether the "Academic Freedom Bill of Rights" is a good bill or a bad bill, but the fact that it's even being discussed is a pretty sad commentary on what is currently taking place in many of our academic institutions.</p>
<p>Brown, I recognize that you are attempting to bait us. Even though I knew you were just trying to be clever I ignored your first post-- the "Certainly Republicans as a whole aren't smart enough to be college professors" one -- for the same reason I ignore it when a person passes gas - it's the polite thing to do when someone does something embarassing in public. The internet is notoriously bad at conveying attempted sarcasm or irony and some people were fooled by your posts. When you continued to "pose" as a stupidly shrill "lefty" I felt it was appropriate to show anyone reading the thread what your actual politics were, by posting a portion of one of your previous unrelated screeds which demonstrated your actual political leanings. Please don't do it again.</p>
<p>browninfall,</p>
<p>On the other thread I already repudiated impolite behavior towards any invited guest on a campus. I still believe it is wrong so I do not defend it here.</p>
<p>Let me begin by saying I had dinner with conservative Republican friends last night and we had a good, mutually respectful, & spirited conversation on many current issues. There are MANY conservatives who agree that the Bush administration is a) improperly expanding the reach of government into private lives, b) attacking the environment, and c) pandering to religious fundamentalists. There are conservatives, like my friends, who realize that WMD was a smoke screen. My friends, for example, still support the Iraq war <strong>as a strategic move in the region.</strong> They are NOT confused about Saddam and 9/11 and never were. They have full possession of the same facts I have but draw differing conclusions. </p>
<p>I can listen to, and respect, a conservative position that is based in reality. However, too often, popular support for the President is based on absolute fiction. </p>
<p>Liberal students (and adults) are righteously angry because the far right is hijacking this country-- and thanks to a well-orchestrated disinformation campaign tricking the masses, they are getting away with it. </p>
<p>We are watching our civil rights erode: people held for YEARS without being charged with a crime, or spirited out of the country and torutred. Preemptive war on false pretext. The Geneva Convention?-- archaic. Filibuster rule? Toss it. Cleaner air? Nah, we prefer corporate profits. I could go on...</p>
<p>Debate on issues has left the realm of fact, of reason, and of sense. It has become a PR/airwaves/disinformation battle. As was alluded to above, when 60% of the voters have their facts excactly backwards, people who are in possession of facts become increasingly frustrated that the power elite continues spinning lies, and using public airwaves to do so. </p>
<p>I truly believe that civility would be much restored if everyone felt the other side was playing with a full deck and we could get down to differing opinions on facts, like my friends and I did last night.</p>
<p>Now, through this bill, the right is coming to attack academia-- because it is the last bastion of "you can't proclaim that unless you can prove it and back it up with facts." It is the place that right wing "spin" totters-- and spins to a halt. And the right doesn't like that. </p>
<p>To reiterate, I think it would be preferable to stage a silent protest (maybe a candlelight vigil for truth?) rather than engage in a shouting match or whatever physical acts you allude to. I think the facts speak for themselves and do not need to be shouted. However, I understand the frustration and anger. </p>
<p>BTW I have seen virulent, nasty behavior from the right wing too (wander down & stand outside a Planned Parenthood clinic some time.)</p>