Florida lawmakers mull changes to advanced placement college credits

<p>What are your thoughts on the following article from the Palm Beach Post?</p>

<p>Florida</a> lawmakers mull changes to advanced placement college credits</p>

<p>By LILLY ROCKWELL
THE NEWS SERVICE OF FLORIDA
Posted: 9:48 p.m. Thursday, April 7, 2011</p>

<p>TALLAHASSEE — In a move that could affect thousands of Florida high school students, some Florida lawmakers want to make it more difficult to obtain college credit through Advanced Placement exams. </p>

<p>Tucked into a bill (SB 1732) that mostly focuses on the Florida College System is a requirement that students obtain a score of 4 out of 5 on AP exams, instead of the minimum score of 3 required in current law to get college credit. The bill was approved by the Senate Higher Education Committee on Monday and next goes to the Budget Committee. </p>

<p>The move would be a big change for high school students who spend an entire year preparing for AP tests. By elevating the standards for gaining college credit, more students will face a disincentive to take harder courses, critics say. </p>

<p>A similar bill in the House (HB 7151) only requires the Department of Education to use how students perform in subsequent college or university courses to determine the appropriate minimum exam scores for Advanced Placement and other college credit classes. The Senate version would also do this. </p>

<p>Advanced Placement exams are taken commonly in subject areas such as chemistry, calculus or English, though there are more than 30 tests available. Students enroll in Advanced Placement courses in high school designed to prepare them for the year-end AP test. If the score is at least a 3, the student receives a college credit for that class. </p>

<p>But problems have arisen, some universities say, when too many students who received the minimum score of 3 on their AP tests were not performing well on the more difficult courses later in college. </p>

<p>"What we have found is that the students getting less than a 4 do not fare as well in college courses," said Sen. Evelyn Lynn, R-Ormond Beach, who is the author of SB 1732. </p>

<p>The University of Florida supports the measure, said UF spokesman Steve Orlando. </p>

<p>"What happens in some cases is students come in having made a 3, for example, on their AP Calculus and then they come in and don't have a firm enough foundation to take the advanced courses." </p>

<p>On the House side, Rep. Bill Proctor, R-St. Augustine, said he also heard from universities that scoring a 3 often isn't a sufficient enough preparation for the next level of courses. </p>

<p>"Universities wanted flexibility to establish a higher level like a 4 on the AP if they were going to accept it as the basic course in certain districts," Proctor said. </p>

<p>The College Board, which administers the AP test, is opposed to the idea. </p>

<p>Kathleen Steinberg, spokeswoman for the College Board, said no other states were considering raising the minimum AP exam scores required for college credit. Steinberg said the College Board recommends credit or placement after a score of 3 or higher. "Research consistently shows that students who earn scores of 3 and higher perform as well as or better than non-AP students in subsequent courses," Steinberg said in a written statement. </p>

<p>Steinberg said the most frequent minimum score a student earns is a 3 and if it were changed fewer students would have an incentive to pursue more rigorous classes. </p>

<p>In Florida, nearly 307,000 students took an AP exam in 2010, according to College Board statistics. Of those, about 64,000 scored the minimum of 3, with about 43,400 students getting a 4 and about 26,300 students getting a 5. </p>

<p>Last year, Department of Education Commissioner Eric Smith told the St. Petersburg Times he thought AP classes were becoming too popular and being over-enrolled by students who were ill-prepared. </p>

<p>"There needs to be some selectivity in how kids are guided into AP, and which AP work they're guided into," Smith said then.</p>

<p>I’m reading over the bill right now.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/1732/BillText/c1/HTML[/url]”>http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/1732/BillText/c1/HTML&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Another significant part of this bill is deleting an exemption from summer-term enrollment in a public postsecondary education institution for students earning accelerated credit.</p>

<p>Sen. Evelyn Lynn, R-Ormond Beach, who is the author of SB 1732, is behind the push to get rid of Bright Futures as a merit scholarship.</p>

<p>I think the state universities should be the ones to decide if AP courses are sufficient or not for prerequisite requirements, not the legislature. I know friends at out of state hot shot colleges that require students to retake courses like Calculus I even though the student got 5’s on AP calculus tests; the colleges know best about academics. Besides, what good is it failing Calculus II in college and getting credit for AP calculus I. If a state university announces that they will be sole determiner if you get credit for AP courses no matter what was scored on test, so be it; students can choose another college if they don’t like that policy. </p>

<p>I had to go to see a dean recently in her office because she lost some of my paperwork, and while visiting her she actually said the college doesn’t really know what to do with students with a year or two of college credits from AP and DE coming in. I think if the college had its way, credits from AP and DE wouldn’t be allowed at all!</p>

<p>As far as Senator Evelyn Lynn, she is just a parrot for folks in the background telling her what to say. She’s past her prime and doesn’t think too well on her own anymore, I’m surprised people still vote for her. I think Bright Futures is destined to have a financial need element factored into it in the future, merit requirements will tighten up too. I’m not sure exactly how Florida state universities get all their money, but I know they get a lot of federal money. A lot of the federal funds given to the state universities are probably conditioned on the universities enrolling minimum numbers of low-income students. Available financial aid to low-income students is not keeping pace with increasing university charges for the low-income students. So what I’m getting at is, I wouldn’t be surprised if even state university presidents will be pushing too in the background for Bright Futures money being used some more to insure low-income students can continue going to their colleges so the universities won’t lose federal money! Just saying; it’s a complicated web.</p>

<p>I agree that each college should decide the weight given to AP credit. </p>

<p>Right now at FSU, there are quite a few courses that a score of 3 gives credit for a lower level class than a 4 or 5 earns. If your major requires you to take biology or chemistry, for example, you will have to take the more advanced classes anyway. A 3 in most history classes also gives credit for a lower level course, where a 4 or 5 score will give you credit for two courses. The same goes for physics, art history and foreign languages.</p>

<p>To me, the biggest advantage of AP credits is that they allow liberal studies requirements to be met, and let students concentrate on more than general ed subjects.</p>

<p>If I got a 3 in an AP class that was required for my major and therefore was a course that was a part of a solid foundation for my future courseload, then i think I would want to take it in college anyway. </p>

<p>As far as Bright Futures, I think that the middle class is going to be the loser in that battle. This program was initially started to keep the best students instate, not solely as financial aid. I think the big mistake was setting the lower tier of the scholarship so low that it is below the national average SAT score. </p>

<p>The bill would also cut the Bright Futures in another way. If every student was required to attend summer sessions (taking away the exemption for students coming in with accelerated credit), then all 120 credits would not be used by students, since Bright Futures does not pay for summer classes. Personally I think BF should cover summer sessions.</p>

<p>its just another way to screw us over so they can make more money</p>

<p>“As far as Bright Futures, I think that the middle class is going to be the loser in that battle.” Couldn’t agree more.</p>

<p>“…college doesn’t really know what to do with students with a year or two of college credits from AP and DE coming in.” I can attest to that, but it also depends on the intended major; graduating from high school with my AA was probably the biggest mistake I have ever made (Engineering major). It TOTALLY threw off my academic map :&lt;/p>

<p>I think it depends on the class. I got a few threes on AP exams (Psychology and US Government come to mind) to which I never had to take another class relating to the subject matter. I did well enough in the class in HS and on the test to deserve credit, and it never hurt me that I didn’t know the material as well as someone who got a 5.</p>

<p>For Calculus, I agree that a 3 should not be acceptable… the curve is ridiculously easy. I got a 4 on the exam despite struggling in class. I retook Calc I in college despite receiving the credit, and I’m glad I did, or I know I would have been screwed for Calc II.</p>

<p>This AP business is scheduled to be addressed in a budget committee meeting in the legislature today. The same budget appropriations committee will be working on other higher education issues important to FSU too.</p>

<p>[Commissioner:</a> Be careful changing Advanced Placement credits | Education articles blog on schools in Florida & Tampa Bay: the Gradebook | tampabay.com & St. Petersburg Times](<a href=“http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gradebook/content/commissioner-be-careful-changing-advanced-placement-credits]Commissioner:”>http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gradebook/content/commissioner-be-careful-changing-advanced-placement-credits)</p>

<p>Looks like they have amended the bill and will now be evaluating data for student performance with reference to their AP scores. They will also be considering different AP courses individually as well as whether each university would accept varying scores as credit for each course.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/1732/Amendment/327286/PDF[/url]”>http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/1732/Amendment/327286/PDF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;